2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

Suitcase With $134 Billion Puts Dollar on Edge

www.bloomberg.com...



general rehash of the story with some interesting points

It is "official"...the U.S. treasury has delcared the bonds to be "fake".

June 18 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland are fake, a Treasury spokesman said.

“They’re clearly fakes,” Stephen Meyerhardt, a spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of the Public Debt in Washington, said yesterday. “That’s beyond the fact that the face value is far beyond what’s out there.”

www.bloomberg.com...

So clearly...even if they are real they are fake. And the two "Japanese" men are "missing". www.businessinsider.com...

At least the Japanese press is sitll interested in story of the two Japanese men caugh withs ome $134.5 billion in (presumably fake) US bearer bonds.

We can't read Japanese, and Google Translate isn't particularly helpful, but a reader informs us that the gist of this story is that a newspaper sent a reporter to Como, Italy and found that the men had been released, with their whereabouts unknown.

Now, the easiest, most-benign explanation for this whole thing is that it's just a counterfeiting scheme. Fine, but then why do you let them go without tracking their whereabouts.

Just a conterfeiting scheme...(nothing to see here folks...move along)

Well if this isnt a set up scam I will eat my hat.

Those men could have done better...IMO to not get caught. Then, they were not arrested even though there was more than enough eveidence to book them on suspicion of committung a crime.

This has an effect on the U.S. which could have been the desired effect all along. Who really knows WHO was behind this in the first place?

Let me be real clear...these men should now be on the FBI's most wanted list...and if not...? Snakey maximum.

The Market Ticker has an interesting write up...also...thinking along the same lines as my last post...

As it turns out, the Bloomberg update tells us something surprising:

Meyerhardt said Treasury records show an estimated $105.4 billion in bearer bonds have yet to be surrendered. Most matured more than five years ago, he said. The Treasury stopped issuing bearer bonds in 1982, Meyerhardt said.

$105 billion? Uh, that's a lot more than the DTC estimates I've seen, which were in the area of $3.5 billion outstanding! Suddenly there's thirty times that on deposit with the DTC out there according to Treasury?

This also leaves the second part of the question open:

On the other hand we have the impossibility of negotiating a fake $500 million bearer instrument, making the exercise of counterfeiting one expensive and futile.

Finally, what happened to the two gentlemen caught with them?

The latter is a rather important question, I'd think. See, counterfeiting is a serious offense. Just try printing up some fake $100s or $20s and see how amused the Secret Service is (hint: don't try this at home unless you are interested in a free stay at Club "This Ain't Fun" Fed.)

market-ticker.denninger.net...

Originally posted by burntheships
we have the impossibility of negotiating a fake $500 million bearer instrument, making the exercise of counterfeiting one expensive and futile.

Finally, what happened to the two gentlemen caught with them?

The latter is a rather important question, I'd think. See, counterfeiting is a serious offense.

The authorities who caught these guys were in a bit of a quandary as they weren't immediately certain what they had. A mistake, they let the pair leave on their own cognizance, probably in some hotel, while they investigated. The fact they did not try to reclaim anything is indicative.

As what was seized actually does not exist in such a printed format, technically they are not forgeries. They were fake documents no doubt intended to deceive.

A blackout was probably put on this story as it looked like a shabby scam but the whole nature of the story would have changed if they were confirmed as real. And it would have been earth-shaking.

A lesson to us all, don't carry over a hundred billion in false bottoms of suitcases.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


I will take up one point with you...try printing up some 4 dollar bills and go to the bank and deposit them. Since they do not exist in a printed format...you should be ok?
I dont think so. You would be investigated and arrested no doubt!

The problem really is.....

Although these two were caught and the plot was foiled. The question rises, how many have made it to their Swiss account location and although maybe not cashed out but rather have been placed in their safe deposit locations. I think the Swiss need to go through all their holdings and see how many bogus certificates are being held. Some may have slipped through the cracks and are just sitting there mixed with legitimate ones.

another interesting point to note in this ever intriguing case is how much was left in The TARP bailout fund account at last count?
134.5 billion, the same amount caught being smuggled into Switzerland.

Someone high up contracted Yakuza couriers(think "The Transporter") to smuggle the funds into a swiss account to hide the money.
SOmeone high up in our Govt is involved here, not just Japaneses IMHO
I just wanna know why, maybe the US economy is on a fast track to the toilet and htey know it?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by SLAYER69


Exactly...and what an effect this could have on a global economy!


reply to post by skeetontheconspiracy


I agree...there is a huge Cover Your Behind program going on here...



I was hoping to learn more here...

CNBC has asked me to appear at 1:40 PM Eastern on Power Lunch in relationship to this topic; if you're around a TV at that time tune in! It should be fun considering Dennis Kneale's "lead" for it last evening....

Update: CNBC has preempted the 1:40 segment for Geithner's rambling; they MAY reschedule for this evening.

I will not have access to this...if anyone does, please clue us in!

Originally posted by burntheships
I will take up one point with you...try printing up some 4 dollar bills and go to the bank and deposit them. Since they do not exist in a printed format...you should be ok?
I dont think so. You would be investigated and arrested no doubt!

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. What you outline is fraud. But simply being in possession of fake money is not. A crime is committed only when you are trying to deceive someone or an institution with it.

These two guys were up to no good, but they would have to caught in the act of committing a crime to be charged. But with a history the probable intent might have been sufficient for an investigation. Which I think happened.

There is a woman in the Philippines who has publicly announced she has a room full of these phony Treasury Bonds. Authorities are not too concerned.
The minute someone tries to use them as lawful tender the rules change.


Mike

[edit on 18-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


The men were not "simply in possession" of "fake" bonds...they were attempting to transport them accross a national border. Ummm...there are numerous crimes involving the Federal Criminal code there...

www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

Originally posted by burntheships

The men were not "simply in possession" of "fake" bonds...they were attempting to transport them accross a national border. Ummm...there are numerous crimes involving the Federal Criminal code there...

I think you continue to miss my point. Real looking $10 bills are illegal. Real looking $9 bills may not be, unless you are trying to pass them off as lawful tender.

Counterfeit and fake are always the same thing,

Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


It is illegal on a grand scale to try to transport fake, forged, conterfeit bonds.

Originally posted by mmiichael

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. What you outline is fraud. But simply being in possession of fake money is not.

As you said..."simply in possession"

The men were transporting couterfeit bonds...attempting to cross a border. That is a Federal Crime, Illegal.

In any case...the impact on the credibility of American debt is unimaginable and the impact on global financial security is even more so!

[edit on 18-6-2009 by burntheships]

Originally posted by burntheships

As you said..."simply in possession"

The men were transporting couterfeit bonds...attempting to cross a border. That is a Federal Crime, Illegal.

In any case...the impact on the credibility of American debt is unimaginable and the impact on global financial security is even more so!

Just repeating what I said. Counterfeit is not the same as fake. Repeat, counterfeit is not the same as fake.

If you print up your own $10 bills that look like the real ones, that's counterfeiting and a crime. If you print up $11 bills, it's not a crime, at least in most jurisdictions. Unless you're demonstrably trying to use them as lawful tender. There are no $11 bills. There are no $500 million undesignated US Treasury bearer bonds like these guys were carrying.

Carrying a suitcase full of Monopoly money is also not a crime.

I hope that's clear.

Mike



[edit on 18-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


Attempting to cross a border with the fake 11 dollar bills is a crime. If they are made to "look real" which these bonds were.
That is why the men have "dissapeared".



[edit on 18-6-2009 by burntheships]

Originally posted by burntheships

Attempting to cross a border with the fake 11 dollar bills is a crime. If they are made to "look real" which these bonds were.
That is why the men have "dissapeared.

I bother to reply because I'm amazed how the point can't be communicated.

Let me ask you this, you say they had fake $11 bills. So what are the real ones?

How can you fake something that doesn't exist?

When you do what laws are you breaking?


I'm sure I'll be typing another response.


Mike

the FED can make up any story they want

real, fake, whatever, they aren't accountable to anyone and if the bonds are REAL and where issued behind closed doors then of course they would shout FAKE! you can bet your butt they would be happy to not have to pay it.

Oh the FED said FAKE so end of story must be true, no further questions for you FED thanks for your time and here's a few bucks for your troubles. Your such a good faceless private unaccountable corporate entity, maybe we can get together sometime and do lunch?

What a joke



[edit on 18-6-2009 by warrenb]

Back to the beginning...where you state that obvious fraud is happening...

Originally posted by burntheships
The latter is a rather important question, I'd think. See, counterfeiting is a serious offense. Just try printing up some fake $100s or $20s and see how amused the Secret Service is (hint: don't try this at home unless you are interested in a free stay at Club "This Ain't Fun" Fed.)

market-ticker.denninger.net...

The men were attempting to transport conterfeit bonds.
The Secret Service is over this area of the law...from money to electronic funds including bonds.

On October 26, 2001, President Bush signed into law H.R. 3162, the USA PATRIOT Act. The U.S. Secret Service was mandated by this Act to establish a nationwide network of Electronic Crimes Task Forces (ECTFs). The concept of the ECTF network is to bring together not only federal, state and local law enforcement, but also prosecutors, private industry and academia. The common purpose is the prevention, detection, mitigation and aggressive investigation of attacks on the nation's financial and critical infrastructures.

The Secret Service's ECTF and Electronic Crimes Working Group initiatives prioritize investigative cases that involve electronic crimes. These initiatives provide necessary support and resources to field investigations that meet any one of the following criteria:


Significant economic or community impact
Participation of organized criminal groups involving multiple districts or transnational organizations
Use of schemes involving new technology

And see this PDF...about counterfeit bonds.

To learn more about Fictitious Instrument
Fraud, visit the U.S. Bureau of Public Debt
Web site at www.treasuryscams.gov The
site features examples of various types
of fictitious instrument schemes and
related scams.

www.ustreas.gov...

Obviously the men have committed a crime.
I am sure the Secret Service is on it.

I am also amazed that you would attempt to make light of the criminal aspect of this story, to confuse the issue and possibly lead someone to think that what these men were doing is no big deal.

For the sake of keeping this thread on topic, I will not reply further to your posts.


[edit on 18-6-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by warrenb


Yea and are they not efficient? It only took them a week to declare them "fake".

Originally posted by burntheships

Yea and are they not efficient? It only took them a week to declare them "fake".

We have no idea how long it actually took them. Maybe only a 10 minute phone call.

We only know when the press released the information.

This whole thing was more about spin control than anything else.

Mike