New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

reply to post by DoomsdayRex

Do they? What they are showing in the enhanced video seems different than what is happening in the original. In other words, you cannot see (it seems to me) these changes in direction in the original.Why is that?

maybe because it's a enhancement ?

That being said, star and flag for bringing new information in to the mix.

thanks






[edit on 7-6-2009 by easynow]

Over exposed Tether. Lets put this into Perspective. A 6-12inch Rope next to Jumbo 747. Then over expose the Tether and you saying it will appear the same size as the aircraft.Without increasing the Aircraft size.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by SharkBait]

[edit on 7-6-2009 by SharkBait]

Originally posted by SharkBait
Over exposed Tether. Lets put this into Perspective. A 6-12inch Rope next to Jumbo 747. Then over expose the Tether and you saying it will arrear the same size as the aircraft.Without increasing the Aircraft size.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by SharkBait]

where is the 747 in the image?
all i see is an over-exposed tether and out of focus particles reflecting off of the telephoto-lens's mirror.


that is an overexposed image of a firework explosion. I'm sure you know fireworks look like thousands of tiny points of light in reality, not a giant blob.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by JScytale]

Just throwing it out there, but is it even remotely possible that when some of the debris appears to change direction or curve that it may in fact be rotating a reflective side away from the camera at the same time another particle is crossing its path in front of behind while rotating its reflective side toward the camera?

Or perhaps some of the debris it being hit by particles that are not reflecting anything, making it seem as if they are intelligently controlled?

I just seem to have a hard time thinking these are billions of UFO's or something nefarious or conspiratorial in nature. I would have to say if this was what most of you dream it is, that we wouldn't be seeing this video in the first place

There was noticed before that some objects change direction, but if we look at their trajectories, all change from going up to going down, like if they were falling, and the their trajectories are parabolic, like the trajectories of objects affected by gravity.

So, while this shows much better the movements of the objects, it does not show anything that can only be explained by an intelligent control of the trajectory of the objects, so I still think that the ice crystals or small debris is the most likely explanation for this event.

I wish this topic would involve a range of conclusions beyond "Ice debris" and "Intelligently controlled craft".

In the deepest oceans are forms of life adapted to existing in an extreme environment.

Why not the upper atmosphere or lower orbit? As someone else pointed out in another thread, if a Mosquito can survive in space, why not something that evolved to that very same harsh environment?

It wasn't till we looked at thermal lava vents in the deepest oceans that we discovered thriving colonies of life adapted to exist there and there alone.

Why does anything up there require it to be intelligently controlled?

Just wondering why the debate seems to continue the mutually explicit outcome of Ice debris or Spaceman ponderings...



[edit on 7/6/2009 by badw0lf]

Originally posted by badw0lf
I wish this topic would involve a range of conclusions beyond "Ice debris" and "Intelligently controlled craft".

In the deepest oceans are forms of life adapted to existing in an extreme environment.

Why not the upper atmosphere or lower orbit? As someone else pointed out in another thread, if a Mosquito can survive in space, why not something that evolved to that very same harsh environment?

It wasn't till we looked at thermal lava vents in the deepest oceans that we discovered thriving colonies of life adapted to exist there and there alone.

Why does anything up there require it to be intelligently controlled?

Just wondering why the debate seems to continue the mutually explicit outcome of Ice debris or Spaceman ponderings...



[edit on 7/6/2009 by badw0lf]

interesting ideas, but a mosquito can't survive in space, they breathe. you may have read a study stating they can survive in zero-g. i may be mistaken but they are not anaerobic life forms.

the reason its very, very unlikely is that there is no source of energy besides the sun, and no source of mass with which to grow like plants use minerals in the earth. life on asteroids is a different story.

edit: i eat my words, i found the study where a mosquito survived on the outer hull of a spaceship - but the mosquito wasn't alive, it was essentially dead or hibernating in space, and managed to get reanimated when back on earth. i wouldn't say ice fish "live" in ice, after all.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by JScytale]

Hey, what do you guys think of 1:40, when the camera first zooms in, there's an object that appears to do a full U turn. I've never seen anything in space turn around that quickly.

reply to post by ArMaP



I agree with you the gravity makes sense but why only those few particles. Why would gravity be selective to those particular particles? While I really don’t think they are aliens or anything it is just interesting.
Is it possible that there is a built up static charge in the tether and somehow is acting on some particles?
This way the particles may react differently depending on what they are made of.

...hasn't this thing been debunked to death by everyone? they all have different theories too, on how it could be space junk and debris. nothing more. it's obvious, then, that the crap would be all over the place out there.

on topic with many of the replies here: the one reason I don't take any interest in UFO HUNTERS, regardless of my interest in unexplained phenomenon, is because they are paid by the mainstream media, and we all know how accurate they want things to be. It's solely entertainment.

if it is space junk, I want to hear how none of it is colliding with the instrument, or the window for that matter. The tether is definitely sizable, to say the least. and you mean to tell me that we can't see a trajectory line from a single piece bouncing off of the tether?
go back to sleep, the msm concluded that it's all an illusion....

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Just throwing it out there, but is it even remotely possible that when some of the debris appears to change direction or curve that it may in fact be rotating a reflective side away from the camera at the same time another particle is crossing its path in front of behind while rotating its reflective side toward the camera?

I had some of the same thoughts, IgnoreTheFacts. But I am not a camera expert so I did not want to bring it up.

In the enhancement it still looks to me like the objects are going in front of the tether.

I did notice something when I watched the enhancement. It seems when the objects' path curve, they are heading towards the bottom of the screen. Notice the still frame at around the 2:15 mark and again a minute later. It seems odd they are all falling (for lack of a better term) in the same general direction, down towards the bottom of the screen. It would seem if they are under intelligent control, they would move in different directions.

Just a FEW observations:

-Some objects are on a CURVED trajectory

-Some objects make FULL U-TURNS in a VERY short distance

-Some objects STOP mid flight and REVERSE DIRECTIONS COMPLETELY


These objects are not behaving the way physics dictates they should in the vacuum of space

Thrusters, lets talk about them as others have stated this is the force acting on the objects to change course.

-If thrusters were causing all this movement the direction would be consistent with most objects present moving in relatively the same direction

-Even if multiple thrusters were firing we would see a pattern of movement, which we see none

-The objects in question all seem to move INDEPENDENTLY of their surroundings!

Maybe because a lot of those particles are within the window? The ports on the shuttle comprise of two sheets. Quite possible there was a lot of tiny particles between those two sheets that got trapped during the construction of that shuttle. Just a thought.

Originally posted by imeddieone4202003
-The objects in question all seem to move INDEPENDENTLY of their surroundings!

I think they have the illusion of independence. It appears from the video they are falling towards the bottom of the screen.

Originally posted by toltecnightmare
...hasn't this thing been debunked to death by everyone? they all have different theories too, on how it could be space junk and debris. nothing more. it's obvious, then, that the crap would be all over the place out there.

on topic with many of the replies here: the one reason I don't take any interest in UFO HUNTERS, regardless of my interest in unexplained phenomenon, is because they are paid by the mainstream media, and we all know how accurate they want things to be. It's solely entertainment.

if it is space junk, I want to hear how none of it is colliding with the instrument, or the window for that matter. The tether is definitely sizable, to say the least. and you mean to tell me that we can't see a trajectory line from a single piece bouncing off of the tether?
go back to sleep, the msm concluded that it's all an illusion....

well, first off space junk IS everywhere in earth orbit, is a major problem when planning satellite orbits, and is a constant threat to any space mission. second of all, this took place after a satellite had a part (the tether) break off, so of course there is going to be a very large amount of debris / space junk / whatever you want to call it nearby.

secondly, i dont think that criticizing your second paragraph as a wee bit paranoid would be prudent considering where i am (no offense to anyone here), but you should be able to tell how i feel about it without me going into detail.

third, it is *much* smaller than it looks, and we only see a tiny peice of footage. the tether is only a few inches wide and extremely long, and is very far from the camera here. it *looks* much wider than it is due to overexposure of the film because of the amount of sunlight its exposed to, but it is in reality a very very very thin object. actually seeing anything collide with it in this tiny bit of film would be like pointing a camera up at a flock of birds and having one poop dead center on the lens. a very small probability.

Originally posted by imeddieone4202003
Just a FEW observations:

-Some objects are on a CURVED trajectory

-Some objects make FULL U-TURNS in a VERY short distance

-Some objects STOP mid flight and REVERSE DIRECTIONS COMPLETELY

personally i find thrusters unlikely as an explanation for any of these things because the camera itself doesn't shift, but that's just me.

the curved trajectories are rather clearly parabolic.

a full u turn *can* be a parabolic arc viewed from nearly in line with its line of motion, but it *is* curious.

stopping mid flight is a flag-raiser, but I didn't see anything like that occur. what part of the video are you referring to? if it seemed to stop mid flight and then move EXACTLY in the opposite direction, it could easily be a parabolic arc viewed dead on - but if it stopped and then changed direction in any other way, the stop couldn't be explained by movement directly towards or away from the camera in a natural path of motion (without outside influence).

also, regarding the thrusters argument - while i find them an unlikely explanation, i don't discard them - and bear in mind these particles could be anywhere from millimeters outside the shuttle window to thousands of kilometers away, and have appear very similar. its very easy for thrusters to act on the near ones and not the distant ones.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by badw0lf
In the deepest oceans are forms of life adapted to existing in an extreme environment.

Why not the upper atmosphere or lower orbit?

They are space dolphins, similar to water based dolphins except that they come down for air.


[edit on 8-6-2009 by JohnJetson]

Originally posted by SharkBait
Over exposed Tether. Lets put this into Perspective. A 6-12inch Rope next to Jumbo 747. Then over expose the Tether and you saying it will appear the same size as the aircraft.Without increasing the Aircraft size.

OR....

the tether is actually glowing with the plasma effect that they expected and for that reason the whole scene of STS-75 was filmed with the special UV TOP camera, designed to study the plasma sheath around the tether...

But hey why consider that evidence? I mean you debunkers are all so gung ho on your favorite pet theories...

But just for the few that prefer real data, I will post the data from the other thread

Be surprised what you find with a simple search for "NASA tether plasma sheath"



High voltage plasma sheath analysis related to TSS-1
adsabs.harvard.edu...

TSS-1 is the STS 75 tether designation in case you didn't know

From NASA STS-75 mission repoert

The specific TSS1-R mission objectives are: characterize the current-voltage response of the TSS-orbiter system, characterize the satellites high-voltage sheath structure and current collection process, demonstrate electric power generation, verify tether control laws and basic tether dynamics, demonstrate the effect of neutral gas on the plasma sheath and current collection, characterize the TSS radio frequency and plasma wave emissions and characterize the TSS dynamic-electrodynamic coupling.

science.ksc.nasa.gov...

Transient plasma sheath model for thin conductors excited bynegative high voltages with application to electrodynamic tethers
ieeexplore.ieee.org...

For one, is the nature of the interaction of a very high-voltage tether structure with the tenuous plasma present at the altitudes where the system would operate?

A plasma sheath could develop around the tether. If that occurs, the range of the high-voltage tether would be impacted. That same sheath might also affect how much power is necessary to pump into the tether, keeping it at high voltage, Hoyt said.

www.space.com...

TETHERED SATELLITE SYSTEM INTERACTIONS WITH THE IONOSPHERIC PLASMA
see.msfc.nasa.gov...

The tether current produces a closed, azimuthal magnetic field around the tether. As a result, the region immediately surrounding the tether is disconnected from the open magnetic field region farther out (a magnetic separatrix exists). Therefore in order to be collected, charged particles must intersect the boundary surface (separatrix) between the regions of closed and open magnetic fields configurations. If the plasma sheath is inside the region of closed magnetic surfaces, the particle can be collected only due to the thermal motion, i.e. finite Larmour radius. To the extend that charged particles are unable to move across these surfaces, collected current will be reduced. This magnetic insulation breaks down if the boundary surface is
inside the region of strong electric field, i.e. inside the plasma sheath.

hsd.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Okay so it GLOWS

As to the TOP Camera...

Tether Optical Phenomena Experiment (TOP)

Using a hand-held camera system with image intensifiers and special filters, the TOP investigation will provide visual data that may allow scientists to answer a variety of questions concerning tether dynamics and optical effects generated by TSS-1R. In particular, this experiment will examine the high-voltage plasma sheath surrounding the satellite...

In one mode of operation, the current developed in the Tethered Satellite System is closed by using electron accelerators to return electrons to the plasma surrounding the orbiter. The interaction between these electron beams and the plasma is not well understood...

Associate Investigator: Stephen Mende, Lockheed Martin

liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov...

in order to obtain 2D images in the EUV-FUV ((400÷1300) Å) of the optical phenomena occurring in the neighborhood of the TSS satellite. These peculiar phenomena, not detectable during the first TSS mission, are primarily due to the interaction of a high-potential conductive body with the surrounding ionospheric plasma.

This paper was submitted 14 July 1992 four years before the 2nd mission so they KNEW what to look for and it was in UV...

Astronomical observations: ultraviolet (100÷3000) Å

www.springerlink.com...

Heck even the RUSSIANS know about it...

Later vacuum-chamber experiments suggested that the unwinding of the reel uncovered pinholes in the insulation. That in itself would not have caused a major problem, because the ionosphere around the tether, under normal circumstance, was too rarefied to divert much of the current. However, the air trapped in the insulation changed that. As it bubbled out of the pinholes, the high voltage ("electric pressure") of the nearby tether, about 3500 volts, converted it into a plasma (in a way similar to the ignition of a fluorescent tube), a relatively dense one and therefore a much better conductor of electricity.

www.iki.rssi.ru...

So get over it... the tether was GLOWING from the plasma around it, hence why it looked so wide and like a fluorescent tube.

The TOP camera was a camera specifically designed to film this phenomena and caught the CRITTERS as well and the STS 75 footage we all love so much WAS in UV

These are a FEW of the available papers... some are even more technical like the 480 page report after the fact that you can order from NASA that goes into the sustained arcing that caused the break... but that is enough to make my point...

Do some research... know the facts before you 'shoot from the hips' Will make one appear less ignorant

Here is a pic of the damage a sustained arc does on spacecraft...





This one shows it actually occurring



There ya go tons of links to real data...

And if your nice I will tell you about the other tether that did not break that was flown by the REAL space program run by the US NAVY that flew one month after STS75 and stayed up for two years... and they shot lasers at it from two Earth stations to test the power transmission feasibility proof of concept

That is for anyone who cares about real data

Originally posted by JScytale 99% of these objects are pretty much conclusively micrometeorites and debris.

Well some claim they are conclusively ice particles. Seems you skeptics can't even get your story straight. Micrometeorites? Seriously? And how did you come to this conclusion exactly?

And the 1% you can't explain... what are those?

Originally posted by badw0lf
I wish this topic would involve a range of conclusions beyond "Ice debris" and "Intelligently controlled craft".

We have... in the other threads...

Plasma life forms... Even ArMaP chimes in with a possible maybe on that one. Do a google search on that term, be surprised how many mainstream scientists are working on the possiblilty

why not something that evolved to that very same harsh environment?

Don't forget that what you may consider a harsh environment in human terms, may not be so for other life forms. Since space is full of plasma energy, it may be the ideal habitat for a creature that is made of and exists on plasma energy.

Why does anything up there require it to be intelligently controlled?

Because the Alien believers need it to be so

But from my study of sightings over 30 years... the ones I classify as possible critters show erratic behavior... flitting about the skies seemingly aimlessly, or as in the tether 'moths to a flame'. They exhibit shape shifting capabilities which would make sense for an amoeba like life form, but not for a metallic spacecraft.

They would not experience inertia in high speed maneuvers in the same way a lightning bolt (also plasma) would feel no inertia.

In the day time they would appear fuzzy, translucent.. at night they would be glowing

They do appear to show a curiosity towards us so are at least aware of us in some way.

Just wondering why the debate seems to continue the mutually explicit outcome of Ice debris or Spaceman ponderings...

Because the believers need them to be Aliens and the skeptics have a need to prove they are only ice particles, but there is hope... the CRITTER movement is gaining momentum

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I just seem to have a hard time thinking these are billions of UFO's or something nefarious or conspiratorial in nature.

Nothing nefarious or conspiratorial about the CRITTERS at all... they are merely minding their own business and doing what they have always done.

And both NASA and the Military can state truthfully that there is no threat to National Security Though I can only imagine what would happen if they told everyone that space and the atmosphere was filled with giant space amoebas

What I find really amusing is that religious people and new agers talk all the time of ascension into a being of pure energy and light. In fact some go so far as to state that is the eventual evolution of mankind...

I have even heard it mentioned in some circles that the CRITTERS are actually watchers... but I know how you dislike way out there conclusions

[edit on 8-6-2009 by zorgon]