Brazilian Search Crews find bodies of Air France AF447

reply to post by broli


The real question will be will the authorities ever have relatives identify the bodies? I doubt it they will take the authorities word for it that the DNA matches with relatives. Yes it is possible that the bodies have been planted floating on the surface of the water and pieces of the plane, luggage and debri.

A ticket being found in carry on luggage lends more credibility if they were trying to hide or stage something from the public this would be a great ploy.



[edit on 6-6-2009 by amari]

Exactly. We can only make assumptions. Maybe we wonder too much. It is just outstanding that from the huge mass of a plane, in the middle of the first things found is an air ticket who happens to make the discovery undisputable.

I am watching the french news closely and altough the news of the founds receives a lot of coverage there is still no confirmation from a French official.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Manouche]

I'm also not on the conspiracy bandwagon yet, but c'mon, first they find debris that is discovered NOT to be of the plane, and the next debris they find has an undeniable plane ticket inside... Sounds like they didn't wanna go back there a third time to plant more 'debris'

On the other hand, it did dawn on me that the debris most likely to be found would be debris that reflects the sunlight which therefore would caught the searchers eyes.
An aluminum briefcase would do the trick, if they can float, which they probably can since there are also aluminum canoes

If the briefcase was sealed and watertight, the air inside would probably make sure it'd stay afloat, and the ticket could even be untouched by water.

Time will tell I guess...

Somethings not right about all of this at the press conference they seid they received one message from the plane then later we found out there was a lot more messages why didn't they say that the first time. So if all the messages coming from plane there was power so why no mayday there story is not consistent it stinks and they gave up hope way two soon they know something there not telling us.Mite be the real reason the plain went down has to stay secret just my opinion.

I am still waiting on more about the seat serial number. If that number does not come back to the aircraft in question then things get real messy.
Think about it. If that number comes back to another aircraft then how are they going to explain that one?

And speaking of serial numbers the laptop serial numbers need to be tracked as well.

Originally posted by fixer1967Think about it. If that number comes back to another aircraft then how are they going to explain that one?

They can always lie...

Really, who's to say the plane ticket was even from that flight? They said it is, there's not much we can do but assume it is.

reply to post by kiwifoot

When was the last time you flew and kept your ticket with your suitcase?

I always do.

What's so unusual about it??? You have baggage claim checks, for instance. Your itinerary...perhaps a connecting flight??

Really, folks!!!!! I know, this is ATS...but, as Freud used to say, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

reply to post by Nickmare


I cannot believe someone actually could say that, Nick!

People...check into the history of other high-speed plane crashes into deep water!!! Swiss Air 111 comes to mind. Egypt Air 990. TWA 800.

(of course...TWA will always carry the baloney stigma of a 'conspiracy').

ValueJet (?) in the Florida Everglades...not deep, similar wreckage results!

I am sorry...not everything is a derned conspiracy, people!!

What we are seeing, here, is the rampant speculation, by a few, on unsubstantiated, sometimes erroneous 'info'...and few with any real knowledge or understanding of airplane crashes, recovery details and such. Then, with the Internet, whole thing goes viral!

Anyone heard of the game 'whisper'? You start with two, whisper something in one ear, then that person whispers to a third person on his other side, and so on. Do this with enough people (more the better) and the last person repeats what he heard, out loud. Results are usually hilarious.

Originally posted by Psynarchist
On the other hand, it did dawn on me that the debris most likely to be found would be debris that reflects the sunlight which therefore would caught the searchers eyes.

I think they were found by radar, they use an Embraer R-99 to locate objects on the surface, then, when they find something they send other aeroplanes for visual contact, and then, if they find something, they send one or more of the several ships they have on this search mission to pick up the objects.

That was why the bodies, the backpack, the briefcase (a leather briefcase) and the seat were found in the morning but were not recovered for some hours.

PS: it looks like they found part of a wing of the aeroplane.

Navy ships found the bodies of two men and debris including a blue seat with a serial number matching Air France Flight 447, a backpack containing a vaccination card, and a briefcase with an Air France ticket inside, rescue officials said.

www.news.com.au...

I dont know about you folks but my BS meter is ringing its nut off.
Things just dont stack up here someone aint telling the full story.
Yeah funny how handy 1 friggin fully intact suitcase with a nicely confirming unmolested Airfrance ticket is inside it.

Air France says it has noticed problems with sensors for a year
Exchange of sensors in Airbus began on April 27, 2009.
Airline said he asked for a solution to Airbus in 2008.

Air France began on April 27, 2009 the exchange rate of the sensors on aircraft manufactured by Airbus because of fears of freezing, but only after not reaching an agreement on a repair with Airbus, the airline informed Saturday.


One hypothesis for the crash of flight 477, which was the Rio de Janeiro to Paris and disappeared with 228 people on board, is the incorrect reading of the speed of the device.

On release, the airline said it began to notice problems with the speed due to freezing in both the A330 and A340 aircraft in May 2008 and requested a solution to Airbus, manufacturer of the models.
According to Air France, Airbus suggested testing of different sensors, although doubts have shown earlier that they could solve the problem. But the airline refused to wait and started the exchange in April 27. A Airbus não estava imediatamente disponível para comentar. Airbus was not immediately available for comment.

translate.google.com... AIR%2BFRANCE%2BDIZ%2BTER%2BPERCEBIDO%2BPROBLEMAS%2BEM%2BSENSORES%2BHA%2BUM%2BANO.html&sl=pt&tl=en&history_state0=

[edit on 6-6-2009 by marmt]

A more detailed explanation of how things happened.

At 04:00 the R-99 found something on the radar, and they found something more between 05:00 and 06:00, and they asked a corvette to go to that place to take a look at what the radar had picked-up.

At 08:07, a C-130 confirmed visually the presence of the objects, and at 08:14 the corvette picked-up the first object, a blue seat.

At 09:10, the corvette found and recovered the first body.

At 09:50 they found the backpack with a laptop and a vaccination card.

At 10:18 they found the leather briefcase with the ticket.

At 11:13 they recovered the second body.

As they are at some 900 km from Fernando Noronha, only tomorrow the bodies can be sent back to land, when the corvette reaches some 300 km from land a helicopter will meet them to bring back the bodies and the objects.

At 11:39 the R-99 took off again, and during the afternoon they found some more objects to the west of that area. Around 16:00 a C-130 found some more places with possible objects from the crash, while the corvette and a patrol ship keep on searching on the "ground" the places found by the aeroplanes.

As have been said several times, nothing will be said to the press about the objects and bodies found before being talked about with the families of the victims.


I don't think there is something to cover up, but if there was I don't think any cover-up would work between two countries that have so many differences between them.

BRAZILIAN search aircraft late have spotted seats and part of a plane wing in the Atlantic where an Air France jet went down nearly a week ago, officials said after two bodies and other items were recovered from the area.
"As well as the bodies there are various remains of the aircraft," air force spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Henry Munhoz said.

"Plane seats, part of the wing (and) various other items (were) localised," Mr Munhoz said.

www.news.com.au...

i dont get it. its been almost a week. they havent found anything all week. and now all of a sudden they have hit jack pot? wouldnt the parts have spread out over time

reply to post by dallas18

i dont get it. its been almost a week. they havent found anything all week. and now all of a sudden they have hit jack pot? wouldnt the parts have spread out over time

What don't you get??

The last known inflight position of the airplane was just an estimate. Then, there was no way to know what direction it, or its debris, descended. AND there was WX in the area, that would affect debris falling. AND there are surface ocean currents that may, or may not be fully known in the region. AND there are going to be underwater currents that may or may not be known....this is going to take a long time.

Depending on the depth, now that they're zeroing in, they will know more about the sea floor in that vicinity.

The ocean is not just a nice calm bathtub or backyard pool, ready to give up its secrets. Just think about how long it took to find Titanic!!!

This does not sit right for two unmentioned reasons.
The suitcase was found in a similar location to the body. Both these objects have different densities. You put them both in the ocean the will drift apart. They have been there days no way would they be sitting anywhere in proximity after a storm.
Second reason. I am not going to test it but laptops dont feel like they float to me. They found a plane wing, i dont know much about plane wings, would such a thing float?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
[Just think about how long it took to find Titanic!!!

K. Thought about it. But I'm having trouble finding how it's relevant. Apples and Oranges.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Nickmare

 

I cannot believe someone actually could say that, Nick!

Well, believe it. All I was saying is that this case seemed strange. I never made any speculations. I haven't even read much about this case yet.

People...check into the history of other high-speed plane crashes into deep water!!! Swiss Air 111 comes to mind. Egypt Air 990. TWA 800.

Swiss Air 111. More then 15000 lbs of wreckage found. Blown to pieces. Don't know much about this one.

Egypt Air 990. First thing found was debris and oil. They found one body. Another example where a collision with great force tears everything to pieces (including bodies).

TWA 800. Most of the plane was recovered. They did a lot of reconstruction. Almost a hundred bodies were found on the first day or so. Not similar.

After looking at it, I think airplane crashes vary so much that it really is hard to compare them.

All airplane crashes have conspiracies surrounding them because of how complicated they are. Airplane crash science isn't always an exact science. They put together pieces and try to come up with likely scenarios. Also, it requires a lot of communication across many different agencies. Like any investigation, we as the public only have what we are told. Nobody can say for certain that any case was performed without corruption. True with the opposite as well. But, without questioning, corruption will run rampant.

What we are seeing, here, is the rampant speculation, by a few, on unsubstantiated, sometimes erroneous 'info'...and few with any real knowledge or understanding of airplane crashes, recovery details and such.

I agree. But in this case, we were originally told they found some wreckage and oil from the plane to later find out that they didn't. I can understand it might be a hard search operation, but for the authorities to release evidence before they are sure shows some lack of judgment. Similar to cases where police say they found a murderer before they are sure. It shows errors were made.

Maybe in this case finding two bodies and a leather briefcase makes sense. The problem is I'm not sure I trust what is coming out of Brazil (and I don't think France does either).

Originally posted by kiwifoot

When was the last time you flew and kept your ticket with your suitcase?

[edit on 6-6-2009 by kiwifoot]

I have a pelican case I carry on planes with me that houses my laptop. I nver allow them to check it and I always stick my ticket into it once on board a plane. Those pelican cases are water proof and can float for years. I can believe that someone else uses one they are very popular.

reply to post by DukeOfDorch


I used Titanic, as a reference to just how difficult it is to find stuff on the bottom of the ocean. Titanic's exact location wasn't certain. (You'd think they'd have a better idea, since the survivors were rescued...seems that precision navigation in 1912 was lacking. Big difference, naturally....time for technology to catch up. But, sea floor off Newfoundland relatively smooth....not in the area where AF447 went down.

Well....and, Titanic was very large, compared to the likely smallish bits left of AF447.