NJ Cops beat man for no reason...

reply to post by Jakes51


Comply to what? Zipping up his jacket, of which they have no right EVEN if he didn't have a shirt on underneath, they still have no right. There is no "cops side of the story" when it is all played out in the video.

God I hate pigs.

Originally posted by Mailman

If you really watch the video, you have to wonder if this guy was'nt overly aware of this camera being there. Does'nt it seem a little perfect?

He is precariously standing on the side of a busy intersection. When the officers pull up and their is dialogue...you can see this mans body language as being insebordinate, and "cocky" if you ask me..

from past experiences with police, this kind of brazing attitude is the last thing you should do, if your innocent, or guilty. He clearly throws his shoulder and and turns his body in a way that is cocky. Wich we all agree is a bad idea when an officer asks somthing so simple of you. Once the video skips to the beating you see the man squirming and resisting in a small way. imo.

In all honesty, I wouldnt put it past this person to be standing in that same spot day after day, in front of that camera, instigating this event to occur.

actually watching it again, you see him reach into his jacket pocket, and turn his body hiding his left hand, almost looking like his pulling a weapon.
as far as the beating, i would probably squirm too if I was getting hit with a stick. But I think this guy asked for it, sorry.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Mailman]

congratulations! Your post is not only nonsense, it is the very first one on these boards that has made me want to breach ATS T&Cs. I can think of only two reasons for such a post. Either you're the cop in question trying to defend himself on ATS, or mailman is your 'other' username that you use to have fake arguments with yourself.

I can think of only one excuse for attacking this man, and that is that he was spouting the kind of views and statements you have made on this thread.

I adamantly believe your description of what happens in the video bears little or no resemblance to what is actually seen to occur.

wow this makes me sad,first of all because he beat the man,second of all the other officier just let it happen?wow no type of compassion

You all know how I love my Police Use of Force Matrix, so here it is again...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d343482c412.jpg[/atsimg]
In this case, the defendant was verbally resistant at the MOST. The officer exceeded his authority by taking it up to the Passive Resistance level, and should be seriously disciplined. The officer made no motion to effect any type of arrest before the attack, so he cannot claim the defendant was passively resisting. Passive resistance is something along the lines of the officer pulling out his cuffs and the defendant refusing to uncross his arms.

My guess is that he made a rude remark to the female officer, and the male officer was going to “defend her honor”. Obviously criminal battery in this instance, and the officer should be made an example of.

[edit on 6/7/2009 by defcon5]

Right I've done a little bit of research. Mr Holloway is standing at a crossing point with the 'walk/don't walk sign mere inches away from him. He can be seen watching the traffic passing. Why is Mr Holloway there? Because he's waiting to cross the junction of Summer Street and Main Avenue so he can continue his walk home to Burgess Avenue, a mere two blocks away in the direction he was facing.

Originally posted by Mailman

If you really watch the video, you have to wonder if this guy was'nt overly aware of this camera being there. Does'nt it seem a little perfect?

I find no merit in this statement. It's a bar, this is a prime location for CCTV cameras. Mr Holloway cannot help the fact that there is a camera by the junction he has to cross to get home. In fact there are at least two cameras. One of which is directly on the corner literally the width of the pavement away from them as Mr Holloway is dragged to the floor. Where's the footage from that camera? Perhaps it doesn't work and the cops knew that and figured the other one wasn't working either, or perhaps they confiscated the clearer cam footage.

He is precariously standing on the side of a busy intersection. When the officers pull up and their is dialogue...you can see this mans body language as being insebordinate, and "cocky" if you ask me..

From past experiences with police, this kind of brazing attitude is the last thing you should do, if your innocent, or guilty. He clearly throws his shoulder and and turns his body in a way that is cocky. Wich we all agree is a bad idea when an officer asks somthing so simple of you.

Are you watching a different video to me! He's so definitely NOT standing precariously. Yes it's a busy junction that's why he's stood waiting at the pedestrian crossing (I dunno what you guys over there call it... is it a crosswalk?). There's no cocky insubordination at all. No negative body language at all. His jacket is unzipped and as such it can and does easily begin to loosen and slide from his right shoulder. His so called cocksure attitude is simply him, shrugging his shoulders to get the jacket back up onto his shoulder so that he may bring the bottom of the zip together, I've done it myself a million times.

Once the video skips to the beating you see the man squirming and resisting in a small way. imo.

I hope I am misunderstanding you and that your statement does not mean you think the clip has been edited.

In all honesty, I wouldnt put it past this person to be standing in that same spot day after day, in front of that camera, instigating this event to occur.

The above statement makes me ashamed to be a member of the same species as you. It says a great deal about you.

actually watching it again, you see him reach into his jacket pocket, and turn his body hiding his left hand, almost looking like his pulling a weapon.

As has already been said, if they had had the slightest inkling of danger their guns would have been drawn. When the squad car pulled up Mr Holloway's open chest made it absolutely clear he was not carrying a weapon. No he was not pulling something from his pocket. you are seeing things. As the sweatshirt is loose and dangling off his shoulder when he brings his right hand round to zip it up he finds his hand momentarily caught up in the fabric

as far as the beating, i would probably squirm too if I was getting hit with a stick. But I think this guy asked for it, sorry.

Please tell me you're not one of these people who think "Hitler wasn't all bad...at least there wasn't any street crime when he was in power."



[edit on 7-6-2009 by sharps]

The female officer will be in MORE trouble then the male officer for not making any attempt to hold down the man, or otherwise aid her partner, or do anything for that matter. If she would of helped then the situation would of been resolved very quickly instead of 3 minutes. Nonetheless it looks like the black guy was instigating this with his actions and body language. And i don't care what he or a fast fowareded and cut video shows. Their's not one source on the internet that can show you 20 minutes before and up to the event. Nor clue us in to why this man is standing there. Perhaps they suspected he was selling drugs. Maybe having your jacket open like that, in this neighborhood, in this particular location by the road, standing there for 20 minutes, and being disrespectful to the police when confronted is probable cause. The policemen interprets the sum of all this and acts. Because the policemen has one arm in use to hold down the man, he cannot reach for handcuffs without letting down his guard. His partner isn't there to help do the eventual arrest, that does occur eventually although we cant see that in this piece of # cut up video, and there ya go.

But hey feel free to believe or act anyway you feel fit on the internet and in real life. But you shouldn't believe everything you see or hear. Their is simply not enough evidence in this video to convict anyone (or do you people assume every picture with orbs is a sign of ghostly activity because you saw it on this website). And ya, police beat up other people all the time. Would you of rather that in every situation such as this that the police execute the individual on the spot.

Imagine if when the officer had the man on the ground, and you clearly see him showing restraint with his fist raised, that the partner helped. That didn't happen and the male officer had to improvise.

My fondest hope is that those of you who think this is appropriate action will one day be at the receiving end of this type of police brutality, then tell us how you deserved it!

It is becoming the norm to find these stories from all over the nation, the police are totally out of control and as dangerous as any thug out there. In fact, they are more dangerous as the courts seem to just give them a little slap on the wrist and they move away and get another job in law enforcement.

I have decided that if one more incident like this happens here in my town that I am going to become involved. Another problem with the police, this problem exists here, the cops are policing themselves! How the hell can anyone get an honest evaluation of police brutality when the cops of the same force are the ones doing the investigation. Ridiculous.

I think that citizens should somehow put their own video recorders in their vehicles so when pulled over they have their own record of the interaction. As stated before....I HATE COPS.

I agree completely redhead. I just watched the video, and I have to say this is a blatant assault. He would've been well within his right to defend himself, but with bullies that are officers, I think he did the smart thing. I don't see anything suspicious on his part, it just looks like the cops thought they could get away with beating on someone for not calling them "sir" or something. Believe me, they hate it when you don't treat them special.

Originally posted by Mailman
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

when cops start beating rich white people in 300k housing developments then Ill call it NWO
[edit on 6-6-2009 by Mailman]

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Mailman]

[edit on 8-6-2009 by KSPigpen]

That is just wrong. Blatant, violent crap. Get them off the force and out of the country. All of them.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by KSPigpen]

reply to post by Genus


The police are instructed, permitted, and allowed to do something against you if you fail to show them respect, which includes really really nasty mace to your eyes, or whatever is specific to a town etc, and depending on how you "defend" yourself, they can escalate their response and be totally within their rights. Walk up to a random policemen and tell him to # off and see what happens.

Where was all this outrage when they were killing, raping and hanging non whites a few decades ago?

I honestly don't see why anyone is shocked about this. Non whites have been treated like this for decades and nobody gave a crap to do anything about it.

Low and behold the internet arrives and now all we get is a bunch of people offering their opinions on important matters and feeling like they've accomplished something.

Violence, is the only way for revolution or change in a governing power. Talk does nothing and it's easily passified.

This treatment will end as soon as people start shooting cops in self defense when they feel they are being violated.

Same with the government bullcrap that's going on daily. We all sit on our fat duffs talking about it, and having silly tea parties with BBQ grills. Silly Americans are so lazy and comfortable, the only way to get them to get out of their chairs is to offer 10% off flatscreen tv's.

Violence is the ONLY answer, since they obviously don't listen.



[edit on 8-6-2009 by manbird12000]

Another story about a cop beating someone.
So at the end of that movie American Gangster, they throw up some numbers since it was based on a true story. 70% of the cops working narcotics were corrupt and prosecuted.
At what point does a few bad apples start to truly be the majority. Since the 70s I'd say. Police will always be corrupt. The majority will always screw over the system. You're just seeing more of it because of the media.

First of all when did it become Law that you have to zip up your jacket! Both of those officers should be fired now. And the city should and most likely is being sued. That seems to be the only way to get there attention. When they lose money . As sad as that is.

No matter what the man said to anyone, he was not bothering anyone and just standing there at the corner. No matter how you put it the Police where in the wrong here and should never have stopped and said a thing to him. This only makes people not trust the police more and teaches kids that the police are not to be trusted. They get what they have coming by what they do!

reply to post by FocusedWolf


Listen partner,
I've been patrolling criminal streets for ten years. I've been in my share of knock-down drag-outs with criminals. I've used force on suspects and been able to practically talk suspects into handcuff's. I've watched all eight video's, and the one unedited version provided by heather65. I'm here to tell ya that that officer had plenty of oppportunity to at least attempt to handcuff the suspect. You never see him reach for his handcuff's in any of the video's. When I have to arrest a suspect that is being violent in any way, my safety is paramount. So I want to get the suspects hands in handcuff's as quickly as possible. Not engage him in some type of hand to hand showdown. I'll say again that the only problem that I have with this incident is that the female officer never attempts to help her partner. The suspect doesn't appear to try to kick his legs or even throw any punches. The back up officers take this guy into custody so easily that is rediculous. Based upon the video alone, I've got a problem with the way the officer handled this situation.

reply to post by defcon5


Hate to bust your bubble, but FDLE and Florida law enforcement agencies no longer use the USE OF FORCE MATRIX as a guidline to resistance/response actions. Just thought you might like to know.

reply to post by FocusedWolf


I believe that you are not educated in what a police officer can do at all! We can not use force on someone because they do not show us respect! As a matter of fact, where I patrol WE often get disrespect from the public we come in concact with. Can't count how many times I've been called "Cracker" or told to F*** OFF when at a call. Now if the person commits a crime in my presence or I have probable cause to put them in jail?! Then its time to give commands and take a ride to the big house.

My brother is a police officer, and I can tell you with 100% truth that an officer CANNOT force you to show respect as it is not illegal, we asked some of his co workers about this very incident which is why I know, but until your right of free speech becomes illegal, too bad if the police don't like it.

As an officer they should know that, and to try and force compliance over something that is not illegal has to be regarded as an act of unwarrented assault regardless if you are with the police or not.

I would fully support any legislation that allows a licensed and armed civilian to take the life of a cop if he is being violently attacked.

That'll slow down these idiots.

One thing is for sure, at least 80 percent that is. If I am being attacked by a cop for no reason..VIOLENTLY.....I would instinctively separate his g0ddamned vertebrae.

It probably would end VERY bad for me...but would you fault a victim of a rape from attacking the assailant?

reply to post by Daedalu


Ya I hope the higher-ups at some of these LE agencies start cleaning the house of cops like this because these types of incidents that seems to be getting put on youtube all to often these days will only cause a divide amongst the citizens and the police. This could lead to violence being directed towards to the majority of the police who are no doubt for all intents and purposes 'good people.' This will lead to backlash from both sides.

Such a division would seem to fit with the police state TPTB apparently want. Divided we will fail against tyranny... we need to have our LEOs as part of our communities.

reply to post by sharps


well to be honest I was just as surprised at my conclusion than some of you one here..

I expected to see a more indesputable video, like most of the posts here claim..but I did not I am sorry if this upsets you.

Its simply footage of a cop struggling with sombody, somthing I can see any day on the reality police TV.

For the Details that you disputed, Maybe your A know it all inner city pedestrian that walks around with your head in the clouds?
If you ask me this guy was on the curb causing a distraction to the flow of traffic. Clearly on the wrong side of the sign poles. The street there doesnt seem to be your typical "center city, Peds have right of way" feel to it. I know all about the crazy intersection traffic of NJ.

This guy should have took a step back. Just one or two would have been fine.
His position alone would attract ANY driver...let alone bored police officers. Now I dont care his shirt is hanging open, but cmon this only compounded with his distractive standing location.

Then like I said he throws his shoulder(midaswell said F YOU, thats what his body was saying) You know Im not even going to go further, you believe what you want