Kennedy bill would make employers provide care

reply to post by MysterE


Great, if this passes then everything imaginable will quadruple in cost, UMM..."let's see I'l take the $26.00 burger and fry combo, and I'll have a small Coke, no make that water I don't want to pay an extra $10.00 and I'll take that to go don't want to pay to use the tables thanks".

Surely something needs to be done, but this is not going to work, nor will Universal Health Care. I work, I have insurance. I can't afford to carry my daughter on my insurance and she doesn't qualify for Medicaid, I make just enough too much to throw me over the limit. Of course, they don't consider take home pay or the fact that you have to pay basic living expenses and the other half is on unemployment. I suppose it they did make small business provide insurance many would just have the employees pay for most of it. They could also cut back and reduce wages to fund it, but then you have people working for next to nothing.

I have insurance and can't afford to have done what I need to have done as after I pay my $1000 deductable and then 70% (because it doesn't fall under a provider), so how exactly is having that insurance helping me? Don't even get me started on dental insurance and dentists are the biggest crooks right on up there with the lawyers and insurance companies.

Maybe there would be more money for the tax paying citizens if the government would quit paying the bills and providing medicaid and food stamps and WIC for the illegals and hospitals wouldn't have to write off all the money illegals and people without insurance never pay, as they seem to use the ER's and Urgent Cares as doctors offices.

Bottom line, the whole system needs a makeover and the neither of the two options out there are going to work.

reply to post by opal13


umm...right now, one sixth of all the income going to the people is coming from those government benefits....it has doubled since the financial crisis has hit. it's more than illegals draining the system...there's alot of unemployed people out there. add to that the fact that many of those baby boomers lost their life savings (retirement) savings...well, now isn't the time to call for the cutting of these programs.....and the illegals in the system, I don't think would make that big of a difference in most of the country.

but, what does it take to convince the people in the government that we, the normal taxpayer just CAN'T afford all this?? I know what the mom who posted a few posts up is talking about, I've been in the exact same position, and well, right now, I am insured but well... I am an honest person, I will admit it... I can't afford to get treatment when I need it!! so, well, the government, in their bought off insanity, is gonna force her to insure her daughter? are they gonna force me to run up my debt getting a bunch of preventative treatments that I don't feel is as necessary to be done as those health problems I have that are interferring with my ability to function normally in today's society? All the while, will I see taxes being slapped onto everything under the sun to keep a healthcare system that has some serious flaws built within doing business as usually...which means...well, I can continue ingnoring lumps in my stomach, feet that tend to lock up while I walk, and well, whatever other problem that might occur, simply because I am neither that rich or that poor?

the company I worked for is doing all it can to provide us with the crappy insurance policy that we have, and well, this year has not been that good!! they basically been providing what has been part time employees with those what would normally be considered full time benefits. they are trying to do their job as an employer.....it's the danged government that is failing to their job as the government, they are too busy doing all those other things that really don't fall into the realm of government work! try some regulations directed at the healthcare industry designed to get the cost down!!! what the heck, they found a way to cap the salaries in the big financial companies, they all but took over the car manufacturers.
they've proven that they can do it!!
we probably have more money flowing into the healthcare system, medicare, medicaid, schips, drug companies, gov't employee healthcare packages, medical training schools, research facilities, and whatever else than we put into those other businesses....

really, I am sorry to see all this happen, but well......
got a feeling this IS where it's leading to...

where ever the gov't money is flowing, or will soon need to flow, well, our government has just assumed the right to use that money as a justification to move in and well, start dictating.....
that money flows far and wide...
just like I got a feeling that well, the car companies, although not in a healthy state by any means, was deliberately delivered it's deathblow.....(not by just the dems and obama, but by the republicans and bush administration also!!!).....
just so the government can start telling them what to produce...
what, you actuallly think that the government wants them to produce cars??? na....try bombs, missles, and other war toys...
of course, for a price that our broke government can afford....

Originally posted by David9176
While I do agree that companies shouldn't be forced to pay health care....I think we all agree that something has to be changed.

I spent 3 hours in the ER getting stitched up yesterday, and while I was there I asked the Dr. his opinion on universal healthcare. He replied that although he was a capitalist to the bone, something has to be done. He didn't have a solid answer as to what should be done, but he emphasized that the main problem that raises prices so high was the huge amount of un-paid medical bills (many for routine things). He said the people who acually do pay are getting the bill for the people who don't. he was rather passionate about it, and I agreed with him.

-E-

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


The federal government has no authority to tell PRIVATE businesses how to operate.

That thought ever cross your mind when you were making your little list there?

reply to post by SurvivalGearDepot

well, I suspose the gov't could be mean, and just pull every cent of funding that is being funneled into the healthcare system,......and well.....then, I imagine, very quickly, there wouldn't be a private company to worry about?

a person, a company, any group is only as "private" as they are independant of that gov't money...and well......
the whole danged economy I think is dependant on the gov't taking huge sums of private money and diverting it to "more worthy" destinations!

That's exactly what the government is trying to do, slowly but surely. Make it so small business can't survive, or, have to apply for assistance and then guess who's calling the shots. They have taken over the car industry, wanting to take over the tobacco industry and I forgot what else I read earlier. Universal health care, sadly, has a good chance. Just one more way to make sure we are dependent on the good ole government that is going to take care of us. Uh, yeah right.

I did forget to mention the unemployed as I am sure many are receiving care they can't pay for. My kid's dad is unemployed and those unemployment benefits (that's an oxymoron) don't come with squat. I was not trying to have anything handed to me, we've both paid taxes all our lives and then this happens and I'm struggling to get my child what she needs as I am the only income right now and unemployment pretty much keeps the house payment and auto insurance current. Point is, the government is not taking care of the hard working (or not anymore) taxpaying citizens. We are not the only ones in this situation. Point is, they either can't or won't help with healthcare for children of those of us who are job displaced or just flat out can't afford more insurance, so why would they provide much of anything in the future. I have a friend who adopted a foster child and legally adopted him. She was getting almost $400 in food stamps a month and medicaid for the child when she was working. She lost her job due to layoffs and guess what? They cut her foodstamps to $125 a month because she was receiving unemployment pay, which is considerably less than what she was making at her job. That makes sense?

The government wants to control it all. Lose/lose situation.

reply to post by opal13

She was getting almost $400 in food stamps a month and medicaid for the child when she was working. She lost her job due to layoffs and guess what? They cut her foodstamps to $125 a month because she was receiving unemployment pay, which is considerably less than what she was making at her job. That makes sense?

That's ridiculous. That makes no sense whatsoever. The government RARELY does anything right.

Every time they try to fix a bad situation they make it worse!

Everything works in favor of corporations...none of it works in favor of the people who have seen the value of the dollar plummet, hammered with taxes, lost their jobs leave the country because of Nafta, not to mention received an insurmountable amount of debt and enslaved our children to it before they take their first breathe.

Sickening.

reply to post by opal13


sure she didn't lose the benefits when she adopted? that would make more sense. but can't see why they would be cut if she went from employed to unemployed unless somehow she is making more being unemployed.

reply to post by SurvivalGearDepot


Unfortunately it is a necessary evil, the US Constitution permits congress to regulate interstate commerce.

Until people education themselves and learn how to curb their primordial instincts a completely free market system won't ever exist.

It is also in the Constitution that the Government has the authority to provide for the general welfare and defense of the people. Although that clause has been perverted, making sure there are sufficient consumer protection laws in place is the governments job.

Just the way it is. It is our job as citizens to make sure the government doesn't overstep their bounds only interferes enough to create that delicate balance to allow businesses to be profitable and make sure people are able to provide for themselves.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
If they are going to universalize health care it needs to be done through government-controlled insurance ala Japan or Sweden, and not in this manner.

The only feasible way of making this work is for them to subsidize businesses who cannot afford this, as in most small and many larger companies. Taxes will go up but taxpayers and insured persons already are paying millions of dollars per year to cover the expenses of the uninsured so what is the difference? It would force physicians to lower their costs since they will have to accept a standardized payment scale and the increased oversight would probably decrease the current practice of charging used medications, supplies and services to random patients to cover expenses (which can add thousands to your bill and risks not being covered by insurance depending on what was "done.").

The biggest problems of course would be longer waits to see a doctor for nonemergencies or elective procedures; a decrease in vanity procedures that already are not covered in most private policies; and denial of curative treatment for fatal conditions that cannot be treated or are lifestyle-induced which will decrease costs to the taxpayers.

Where do you get this info from? Please provide links or something that we can follow up on, instead of just throwing it out there as your opinion? I read so many responses like this. Like the one poster saying all doctors would 'quit' if there was universal health care. Where do you people get your info from? Unless you all can provide some kind of backing, this all sounds like hearsay and imagination to me.

Chrono

Single Payer! When will the people finally wake up and stop lining the pockets of these insurance thieves. Healthcare is a right not a privilege.

Unfortunately nothing will happen until all elections are publicly funded to take the money out of politics. I don't see that on the horizon...too bad for us.

Lets do the math, kids. . .

1 The bill passes
2 Small businesses go out of business
3 Unemployment increases through the roof because small businesses can't hire anyone
4 So we have massive unemployment
5 No small businesses
6 Government comes in to save the day
7 All unemployed are government "brown-shirts" now
8 Gov gets more control
9 people have less- but now we're all equal. . .

Just according to plan.


Kinda reminds me of Germany oh, around 1936. . .
Read your history people!


[edit on 6-6-2009 by mikerussellus]

Originally posted by Keyhole

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
Also, if this passes it will kill small business.

You've got that right!

Small businesses, like my fAmily has owned for 31 years never could afford any health care insurance for our employees, not even me, a member of the family!

This is just going to KILL small businesses if this actually does end up being the "law"!

I look at it differently. I think if you are going to ask someone to work for you full time, and you are not willing to pay enough for them to afford health insurance, then it is nothing but exploitation. If you need to exploit 31 employees in order to eek out a living then you probably shouldn't be running a business in my opinion.

However, in your defense if you have to compete against basically foriegn slave labor then you don't have much of a chance to start with. Due to our foreign economic policy, exploitation of employees has almost become a neccesity for small employers in America. They can pass all the laws they want but it will have little effect unless some old fashion protectionism is restored.

Our greedy leaders have one effed-up web for us to try to crawl out from under.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


After health care, should the small business owners then provide vehicles so their employees can get to work?

I mean, c'mon! When did health care become a right?

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


There is a fatal flaw in that plan (one I know from first hand experience). Blanket authorization of ANY procedure a physician desires will result in millions of dollars in unneccessary procedures (to boost profits to cover deficits from non- or under-insured patients); unsafe and dangerous procedures that have no benefit (coffee enemas for cancer patients, anyone?); decreased malpractice oversight; and increased premiums due to inevitable malpractice.

Not to mention that it will drastically increase involvement for pharmeceutical companies since it is a free pass to test any substance or technique under the sun. And medical lobbying firms will flourish like roaches.

reply to post by secretagent woooman


What? All of that happens now. We can't put limits on what kind of treatment people get. That causes all kinds of other problems. Like I said though other things need to be done such as reign in the lobbyist.

The problem with health care isn't just health care its lots of other things that go into it. But if you want cheaper doctors visits then you have to reduce the malpractice insurance that doctors have to pay. It also wouldn't be that hard to make doctors have to write down a reason for why a particular treatment was given.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by SurvivalGearDepot

 

Unfortunately it is a necessary evil, the US Constitution permits congress to regulate interstate commerce.

Until people education themselves and learn how to curb their primordial instincts a completely free market system won't ever exist.

It is also in the Constitution that the Government has the authority to provide for the general welfare and defense of the people. Although that clause has been perverted, making sure there are sufficient consumer protection laws in place is the governments job.

Just the way it is. It is our job as citizens to make sure the government doesn't overstep their bounds only interferes enough to create that delicate balance to allow businesses to be profitable and make sure people are able to provide for themselves.

How bout the businesses that do not engage in interstate commerce?

As for the general welfare clause.....general does not pertain to the individual, it pertains to the whole.

Does everyone benefit from government forcing employers to provide health insurance? Of course not.

reply to post by mikerussellus


They should pay them a decent enough wage so that they can afford to get work in an eficiient manner, eat nutriously, have a decent dwelling, health care, and afford the other neccesities of life. That is the duty of an employer. If things are so tight that an employer needs to exploit their employees, then they shouldn't be in business.

Sure prices would go up. This would be ok because the average income would increase proportionly as well. But to make it happen we need to choke out the cheap foriegn imports which have destroyed our economy for all but those who do the importing of these cheap goods. In our quest for cheap goods made by slave labor we are in effect requiring small busineess to treat their employeeslike slave labor. When will people wake up to this fact?

reply to post by SurvivalGearDepot


I'm completely against this piece of crap legislation. I'm against Government run anything.

I think you are getting confused with my views on this subject. We need health care reform but changing the health care system to government run insurance or anything else is not the answer.

Forcing companies to provide health insurance is not right either. But something has to be done, and what they are proposing is not it.