Israel papers: new era in US ties

reply to post by dizzylizzy


He did mention them. You would have to watch the entire speech it's like the old spaghetti sauce commercial.

It's in there.

reply to post by SLAYER69



Will do, can you tell me in what context they were mentioned. Not got time to watch speech right now.

this could all be a big grand set up.

Obama "changes" the USA ties with Israel, Israel gets mad and in a grand gesture of bollocks to you Obama bombs Iran, and gets the job done for the USA, who now can focus on North Korea...

Obama could easily get the Israel ties back on track shortly after, the blind sheeple wouldn't even notice.

or

they get there two sate solution, and within a certain amount of time, Israel invades the Palestine state, wipes them out in one big bang and gets even more control..


they are setting the world up, understand this is all a choreographed grand game plan

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
why does the USA seriously think they have to be in the middle of everything, and impose there way, and how it should be?

did we all forget that the USA was founded after other countries?

Well first off there is a lot of real history behind these issues. This goes way beyond the current level of dislike for the US. These issues run deep in the histories of all the countries involved.

Whether you like it or not.
Agree with it or not.

Many countries around the world look to the US for it's involvement.

WHY?

Because whether they are Pro and Con most "Want" US involvement. Again this goes way beyond the current limited view that the US is forcing it's view on others.

reply to post by dizzylizzy



Here is part 1 of 6 of the entire speech.
Follow the link for the rest

Originally posted by SLAYER69


Many countries around the world look to the US for it's involvement.

WHY?

Because whether they are Pro and Con most "Want" US involvement. Again this goes way beyond the current limited view that the US is forcing it's view on others.

because the USA was founded and is being run/controlled by the Global Takeover Elitist

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
because the USA was founded and is being run/controlled by the Global Takeover Elitist

You're preaching to the choir

Here is a good read that may clarify where I stand on those issues.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order

and

The New Great Game

this all a game there playing i was sick when i seen obama giving his speech on how we arent at war with the muslim world but yet at the same times he torturing their people and our military is still in their countries. And this is just a step in the ladder first israel and usa arent going to be suck good allies anymore then they are going to attack Palestine and well just sit back then after they take power of the whole land well be allies again

personally i believe our alliance with a state like israel is vile

In His most detailed prophecy of the end time, Jesus said, "When you see the 'abomination of desolation (obama-nation-of-desolation),' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains" (Matthew 24:15-16). What was He talking about?

He was referring to Daniel 11, which foretold what would occur in the powers that would vie for control of the Holy Land for centuries to come. For much of the prophecy these kingdoms were Syria to the north and Egypt to the south, both under Greek rulers following Alexander the Great. Eventually the prophecy describes one of these rulers from Syria, Antiochus IV, also known as Antiochus Epiphanes. He would "act deceitfully" by a false peace agreement with the Jews and later come "in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage" (Daniel 11:23-24, 30).

Was there more to His words than we know? Jesus spoke in parables so anything is possible. The apostles would have transcribed it of course as abomination. But consider that the word abomination in those days was used to describe the act of homosexuality.

And I'm pretty sure the whole word-string Jesus used: abomination of desolation, has always been somewhat debatable by Biblical Scholars. And it didn't seem to fit with his normal everday way of speech.

Well just something to throw in the mix.

Two points

First off Im surprised to see Maloy on this thread. Generally you stay to the Russian issues which leads me to believe that this "shift" affects Russia in some way. I know Israel recently visited Russia. Is Israel and Russia starting to cozy up a little?

Second I feel this is pie in the sky. I mean cmon Netanyahu just visited Washington before Obama went out on his rockstar tour. I'll know change is coming when we cut off all the free money we give Israel. Ill especially know when we cut off all the free weapons.....

Originally posted by intrepid
Anyone else thinking that Obama better not go anywhere near grassy knolls in Dallas any time soon?

Oh no he hasn't been talking about a gold, silver or copper standard to attach to currency has he?

I am pretty sure I sent him a memo about that?

What...wait...this just in, the White House does not read my memos?

Oh, well I tried!

I see this happening. Hamas sees an opportunity now that the US has asked for a halt to settelments and decides Isreal and the US may not be on the same page. This prompts them to attack a little more aggressively, naturally Isreal retaliates but since the US is staying in the background and only "saying"they should not be killing the Palestinians, the dog is off the leash so to speak and they go overboard prompting Iran to get involved. That's the open door the US needs to get into Iran. Iran is attacked lightly at first, by air with a little carpet bombing. NK sees one of the only allies it has being bombed and decides to launch, at SK or Japan both of which have US troops stationed there. The escalation continues as others feel they need to get involved, Nato then Russia and China. So I agrees with a previous poster this could be a pretty grand scheme.

reply to post by Bombeni


I think it's very clear that any leader that wants to make any progress in the ME has to understand the religious aspect of the situation. I think that was more for the Islamic side of the issue more for anybody else. He was clearly trying to show them that he is aware of what they read and is their underlying beliefs.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2d6dfe892017.jpg[/atsimg]

Varying Responses to Speech in Mideast Highlight Divisions

CAIRO — On one level, President Obama’s speech succeeded in reaching out to Muslims across the Middle East, winning widespread praise for his respectful approach, his quotations from the Koran and his forthright references to highly fraught political conflicts.


But Mr. Obama’s calibrated remarks also asked listeners in a region shaken by hatred to take two steps that have long been anathema: forgetting the past and understanding an opposing view. For a president who proclaimed a goal of asking people to listen to uncomfortable truths, it was clear that parts of his speech resonated deeply with his intended audience and others fell on deaf ears, in Israel as well as the Muslim world.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Friendship is a two way street. I challenge anyone to name anything the Israelis have done for the US. In any time in history, not just recent times.

Israel is not our friend. They spy on us, shoot at our ships, and steal our technology. Shame on them.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
First off Im surprised to see Maloy on this thread. Generally you stay to the Russian issues which leads me to believe that this "shift" affects Russia in some way.

Yes, I have build up some courage and decided to venture from my usual Russian geopolitical dominion. In fact I only recently discovered that there is a world outside of Russia, and I gained Putin's approval to explore it.

Seriously though, I have monitored the Israeli situation for a very long time, and I have also studied the Israeli military history. It's just that too many forums on ATS concerning Israel quickly spiral out of control with fanatical supporters of either side resorting to personal attacks. Very rarely is there is there a serious, neutral and unbiased discussion.

How this affects Russia remains to be seen, but it certainly will influence Russia-US, Russia-Israel, and Russia-Middle East relations to some extent. Could this even leave Israel desperate enough to seek Russia's friendship? Perhaps. Could this be US trying to compete with Russia for favors in the Middle East? Very well could be. At this point it is still not clear though.


There is also a parallel here, with Obama trying to demonstrate a shift in relations with both the Middle East and Russia. Remember Clinton's "reset (overload) button" stunt during talks with Russia? All that proved to be is just talk - and so far US has not done anything to ease the tension with Russia. In fact the ABM missile shield is still being installed in Eastern Europe, and NATO expansion shows no signs of slowing down.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
I know Israel recently visited Russia. Is Israel and Russia starting to cozy up a little?

Yeah, there is definitely something going on between Israel and Russia.

If you remember Israel has sold military technology to Georgia prior to Russia-Georgia War in August. After the war suddenly Israel cancelled all contracts with Georgia and announced that it wouldn't sell them anymore arms. Soon after that Israel and Russia signed a contract for Israel to sell UAV's and related compute/radar technology. Then Russia announced that it will not sell the S-300 air defense system to Syria, and scraped the proposed sale of Mig-35's to Syria.

I still don't see Israel becoming Russia's ally in the short term, but there is a clear effort between the two to improve relations and trade.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Second I feel this is pie in the sky. I mean cmon Netanyahu just visited Washington before Obama went out on his rockstar tour.

Yes, but from what I gather they didn't reach any breakthrow deals or agree on any terms regarding Palestinians. Both seemed to be rather disappointed after the talks. What I think happened is that Obama wanted to get Netanyahu to agree to cooperate with him before he announced his Palestinian peace proposal during the Middle East tour. Netanyahu wasn't sold, so Obama is trying not lose face now.

So now we may see an Israel let off the leash by the USA with nobody to control it and lay down the law. That is very scary.

reply to post by maloy


Employees in American armament factories would lose their jobs. A stipulation with the money loaned to Israel is they have to purchase weapons from the United States. The loan never leaves the USA, so if the loan is cut, Americans will lose their jobs.

Obama in Cairo: Words, Words, Words
original.antiwar.com...

"The Change?" - My opinion is same than Iranians: "I will believe it when I see it, not just hear it..." There is just no change at all, but many things gone worst since "Oba-Hope-Dope" took office...

- Look to Pakistan, 2,4 million refugees
- Georgia is in chaos, Opposition protesting daily
- US-Russian relations never been worst (not speaking USSR era)
- Israel ready for war with US funds
- Greatest war budget ever
- China relations down...

Going just nice with "the change!"

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
So now we may see an Israel let off the leash by the USA with nobody to control it and lay down the law. That is very scary.

Quite the opposite actually. Under the Bush administration the US granted Israel extensive freedom of movement as far as their military dealings with Hezbolah and Hamas went. The key was that the US pretty much blocked any UN resolution condemning Israel. Without US support behind Israel, UN could have been much more active in pressuring Israel to end military operations and start negotiations.


Without US approval (assuming that Obama indeed changes America's stance on this conflict), Israel's hand are partially tied now. It is not that Israel can't wage war or bomb the Palestinians into the stone age now, but it can no longer afford to do so without severe political and economic consequences.

Israel isn't exactly a rogue state like North Korea where it can completely ignore outside pressure and not be bothered by UN resolutions. In every military conflict that Israel was involved in for the last 45 years, it had some other power backing them (US, Britain, France). Without such backing the negative consequences of any conflict would exceed the benefits, and the leadership knows this well enough.