Flight A447 The Facts Of The Conspiracy

Let's look at the facts.

There was stormy weather in the area at that time. (Check other posts I've made, as well as others for the images) There is a high probability that there was some kind of correlation between the two. Perhaps we are jumping to conspiracy too early?

The actual naval vessels only arrived on the scene yesterday and they have a huge search area. The current "debris" was spotted by flyover and was wrong. This does not mean that there is a conspiracy. Remember, over two hundred people are dead, so, let's try to be as thorough as possible with real facts before we start to hypothesize.

That said, there does seem to be a disturbing terrorist connection. Let's look at a possible scenario:

Plane is hijacked/bomber aboard. This is radioed to the ground control and FAB (Air Force, Brazil) planes are dispatched. We know that there were FAB planes in the area as nearly as an hour before 447.

Either, 447 is shot down by FAB or an explosive is detonated. Why would this not be reported?

Imagine the international outcry if such a multicultural flight is shot down by the FAB.

A darker possibility is that it was accidentally shot down.

Why would I say that? Simply, no terrorist group has taken responsibility for the destruction of the flight. If we found that there is no possibility for a weather-related crash and no evidence of terrorism, we are left to think about a terrible scenario. Was the FAB conducting military exercises in the vicinity during this time?

Could a lightning strike have done to the plane what was reported? I simply don't know.

I still think that it was a tragedy related to the weather, but, with the developments today, there is nagging doubt.



Ps. For those LOST people among you: 447: 4+4=8+7=15
eerie. I don't mean to make light of the tragedy, but it is very strange that it is a similar disaster...

Edit: An Interesting Article on Portable EMP This site also has links to reputable news organization reporting on the possibility. Interesting that this was being considered only months before the crash

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Iago18]

I think we should take the phone ringing with a pinch of salt. Its not that it wsnt ringing, just it could have been and he wasnt answering whilst the plane was in flight. I think that is causing some confusion, and in a way sidetracking the discussion.

The bomb theory seems most likely I think, or at least a sudden stop in the air.

The plane would then not come down in a more controlled manor, and so possibly been able to skim or enter the water at an angle that would allow it to travel some distance before coming to a stop and then falling into the deep. In which case some evidence floating.

But if there is no evidence of it, then a nose dive from that height straight down would mean it would enter the water almost vertical and plunge straight to the deep.

So I think a sudden explosion, giving no time for any communication from the piolts, and a vertical entry and so nothing floating.

Originally posted by JanusFIN
Air France crash debris recovered as theories focus on speed
www.guardian.co.uk...

Air France pilots battled for 15 minutes to save doomed flight AF 447
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Coverup Of Cause Of Air France Flt 447 Crash?
www.rense.com...

Thanks for those links. I believe the official version even less now! In the uk link you provided, it says

It is unclear whether the pilot wanted to manually change course to avoid a dangerous cloud zone – an extremely difficult manoeuvre at such high altitude.

For those pilots on here, how ridiculous is that statement? It is very simple to change course whether manually or through flight computer. Flying in the midwest, it happens all the time.

"Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, followed by a downward, vertical trajectory which broke up into six segments,"

Intense white light would only come from an ignition-type explosion. No "explosive depressurization" produces light. No catastrophic break-up. Not even lightning, because lightning, in a backdrop of a lightning filled thunderstorm would have been unremarkable, and not worthy of notice.

The article also states:

Some 11 spotter planes are searching for more debris, after finding a seat and a 23-foot metal object thought to be part of the fuselage. A French mini-submarine will arrive in the zone next week.

That is vastly different than the current account of some non-metallic sea trash, and a cargo pallet unrelated to the flight. The new reports have totally forgotten about the seat and a "23 foot" piece of fuselage.

I hope some of these passenger's families hire private investigators! There were some very wealthy people in the list released so far. I hope they get them there right away while some evidence still exists. This situation is a disgrace.

The ThyssenKrupp angle is a very interesting one.

ThyssenKrupp AG (FWB: TKA, LSE: THK) is a large German industrial conglomerate, with more than 200,000 employees. The corporation consists of 670 companies worldwide. ThyssenKrupp is one of the world's largest steel producers. It operates worldwide in three business areas: steel, capital goods, and services. The steel unit concentrates on carbon steel and stainless steel, while the capital goods unit consists of three segments: elevators, automotive (parts, sub-assemblies, and modules), and technologies (machine tools, large-diameter bearings, cement plants, bulk material handling systems, chemical / refining plants and industrial doors). The services sector provides tailor-made materials, environmental services, mechanical engineering, and scaffolding services. The company is the result of the 1999 merger of Thyssen and Krupp, and is headquartered in Düsseldorf. As of 2008, 25.01% of the company shares are held by the Alfried Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach Foundation.

en.wikipedia.org...

Both companies have a very interesting history, both intertwining with the Nazis. Fritz Thyssen has a deep connection to the Nazi party:

In 1923, Thyssen met former General Erich Ludendorff, who advised him to attend a speech given by Adolf Hitler, leader of the Nazi Party. Thyssen was impressed by Hitler and his bitter opposition to the Treaty of Versailles, and began to make large donations to the party, including 100,000 gold marks ($25,000) in 1923 to Ludendorff.[1]. In this he was unusual among German business leaders, as most were traditional conservatives who regarded the Nazis with suspicion. Postwar investigators found that he had donated 650,000 Reichsmarks to right-wing parties, mostly to the Nazis, although Thyssen himself claimed to have donated 1 million marks to the Nazi Party.[2]. Thyssen remained a member of the German National People's Party until 1932, and did not join the Nazi Party until 1933.

In November, 1932, Thyssen and Hjalmar Schacht were the main organisers of a letter to President Paul von Hindenburg urging him to appoint Hitler as Chancellor. Thyssen also persuaded the Association of German Industrialists to donate 3 million Reichsmarks to the Nazi Party for the March, 1933 Reichstag election. As a reward, he was elected a Nazi member of the Reichstag and appointed to the Council of State of Prussia, the largest German state (both purely honorary positions).

In September 1, 1939 World War II broke out. Thyssen sent Hermann Göring a telegram saying he was opposed to the war, shortly before leaving for Switzerland with his family. He was expelled from the Nazi Party and the Reichstag, and his company was briefly nationalised. It was returned to other members of the Thyssen family some years after the war. In 1940 Thyssen took refuge and moved to France, intending to emigrate to Argentina, but was caught by the German occupation of France while he was visiting his ill mother in Belgium. He was arrested by Vichy France and taken back to Germany, where he was confined, first in a sanatorium near Berlin, then from 1943 in Sachsenhausen concentration camp. His wife Amelie instead of escaping to Argentina joined her husband and spent the whole war in the concentration camp with her husband. "She had spent the good times with her husband and would also join him in the difficult times.[citation needed]" In February, 1945 he was sent to Dachau concentration camp. He was comparatively well-treated and transferred to Tyrol in late April 1945 together with other prominent inmates, where the SS left the prisoners behind. He was liberated by the Fifth U.S. Army on May 5, 1945[5].

en.wikipedia.org...

Sourcewatch has this to say:

* The IHS Energy Group, formerly known as Petroconsultants of Geneva, is a subsidiary of Information Handling Services Group (IHS Group), "a diversified conglomerate owned by Holland America Investment Corp., IHS Group's immediate parent company, for the Thyssen-Bornemisza Group (TBG, Inc.)." [1]

* "In the 1920s George Herbert Walker and his son-in-law, Prescott Bush, had helped the Thyssen dynasty finance its acquisitions through Union Banking Corp. and Holland-American Trading Corp. (Wikipedia, 2003). Until his death [in 2002], Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, the nephew of the Nazi steel and coal magnate, was one of the world's richest men." [2]

www.sourcewatch.org...

I'm sure I don't have to remind any ATSers of the connections between Prescott Bush and the Nazis. Anyways, here's some links about it:

www.guardian.co.uk...
www.geocities.com...
www.straightdope.com...

Now Krupp is very interesting.

The Krupp family, a prominent 400-year-old German dynasty from Essen, have become famous for their steel production and for their manufacture of ammunition and armaments. The family business, known as Friedrich Krupp AG Hoesch-Krupp in modern times, merged with Thyssen AG in 1999 to form ThyssenKrupp AG, a large industrial conglomerate.

In the 20th century the company was headed by Gustav Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach (1870–1950), who assumed the surname of Krupp when he married the Krupp heiress, Bertha Krupp. After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in 1933, the Krupp works became the center for German rearmament. In 1943, by a special order from Hitler, the company reverted into a family holding, and Alfried Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach (1907–67) took over the management. After Germany's defeat, when Gustav proved incapable of going on trial, the Nuremberg Military Tribunal convicted Alfried as a war criminal in the Krupp Trial for his company's use of slave labor. It sentenced him to 12 years in prison and ordered him to sell 75% of his holdings. In 1951, as the Cold War developed and no buyer came forward, the authorities released him, and in 1953 he resumed control of the firm.

en.wikipedia.org...

Just look at the wiki page of Krupp. It is certainly the Military-Industrial complex of the world war eras.

Most interesting indeed.

A bit OT, I'm new here... But I'll get the hang of it!

Already posted this, but put it here because this could be linked.

" A Continental Express pilot reported seeing a "missile or rocket" flying near his aircraft Friday night over Texas, the Houston Chronicle reported.

The pilot told the Federal Aviation Administration an object was spotted within 150 feet below his airplane around 8:15 p.m. Friday night over Liberty County, Texas, the newspaper reported.

Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor told FOXNews.com that officials met Tuesday with the FBI and the FAA to investigate the pilot's claims."

link:
www.foxnews.com...


Also Hugo Chevez has cancelled a visit to El Salvador Due for the inauguration of new President Mauricio Funes sighting a perceived assassination plot.

..."In this case the information was very precise, [it indicated] that they were going to launch one or several rockets at the Cubana airline plane that was already ready to leave from Maiquetia [airport in Venezuela],” he said, and explained that the Venezuelan presidential plane was being repaired at the time and that Cuba had lent him one of its planes for his travels. Chavez and Morales were going to travel to El Salvador together in the plane."

Link:
www.venezuelanalysis.com...


What's that saying? Once is an accident, twice is a pattern, thrice is a program?


There is a definite anomalous pattern here regarding the frequency of news casts mentioning Missiles and planes... All in the last few days. I'd be interested t o hear the results of the forensic test on what's left of the fuselage for explosive or related material...Perhaps these stories are related to the Air France anomaly....

Who knows. Sorry for OT.
Peace.

reply to post by JanusFIN



debris news is of Thursday 4 June 2009 17.45 BST....this friday they realized its not the plane's in question

regarding the 15mins news..it was published: 1:47PM BST 04 Jun 2009...beleive me they dont even know were the plane was last....imagine if they know pilots battled for 15min

the..Coverup Of Cause Of Air
France Flt 447 Crash?..is quiet interesting but were doing that job here already

so folks..mystery is still on keep up the good work

Regarding the debris,According to BBC ceefax the found debris
was jetsam from a boat.The plane seat and other debris was
seemingly seen at an earlier date but was not yet recovered.
There could have been some sort of explosion which fatally
disabled the plane without destroying all the systems,like
monitoring devices.
Still a strange event though,the press stories can only be
speculation as well.

On the phone ringing thing, it is also possible that everyone has overlooked the fact that the mans phone could simply have message bank with his provider. Sometimes when a phone is off ( or in this case most likely destroyed in the crash ) you still get a short period of ringing tones till the message bank connects.


Still a mystery crash this one is. I personally think it went down because of a bomb of some sort. The Chinese scientist on board had me thinking a bit.
I wonder what work he does in his job, and if any of it if or the Chinese government, and if so, how important is it to their military if thats the case. Maybe he was taken out by say the US for reasons only know to them, based on his knowledge of a particular research he may have been working on which might be a threat to the rest of the world. Find out more about him and it may lead somewhere.
Just a thought..

Perhaps a meteorite brought it down? The article I'm linking(1st post, sorry if I do this wrong) claims to have done the math and come up with a 1 in 10 probability of such an occurrence since the beginning of manned flight. Article has link to related study as well.

tech.slashdot.org...

[edit on 5-6-2009 by inorbit222]

Any flight I've ever been on they tell you to switch your mobile phone off.

Add to that being at cruising altitude and out over the sea there is little chnace of connecting to the network even if you switched it on.

So I don't know how the phone would ring, unless it was still on the ground somewhere somehow.

Great thread and keep it open and news coming in as this surely is very, very odd.

How about if it was hit by project aurora? The 'debris' found (seat etc) was from the aurora which is why now its being swept under the carpet as it would prove it exists?

I'm glad to see this topic staying current. I was here on day one and there was a lot of second guessing going on... we all felt bad for the passengers and their friends and family so the trend was towards quiet.

Since then, we have learned that the wreckage was not wreckage, the slick not slick and the plane is still unaccounted for.

On day one the Main Scream Media was using words like 'Vanished' and 'Disappeared'. The facts have not changed nor so too those definitions... though they are now largely unspoken.

This would not be the first plane to simply disappear and if history is a good road map, there won't be a lot of talk about all those other ways and reasons it did. They will be left for those who get out and look and write books in the years ahead.

As to exactly 'what' happened, I am no smarter than you but... still like you, I come here to ask questions that we know won't be asked in the public eye by our press and media.

An event for the ages? Maybe. But I hope it calls us to be less quick to accept the first answer or... excuse.

We are now, officially, out of the box.

...

Prince Pedro Luís was reported to have been on this flight, and has been presumed dead. Of the 227 passengers he was the only one with his own Wikipedia page. For those of you believing that this disaster was a side-effect of a planned assassination, you may wish to research him. His political status makes him the likeliest target in the original poster's list.

I don't think there's any conspiracy attached to this tragedy. Logically speaking, super jets are far from an ideal locale for an assassination.

en.wikipedia.org...

I was listening to an "expert" on the radio the other day talk about this...I think it was on the Michael Smirkanish(sp?) show. The expert was introduced as having over 10000 flying hours in commercial jets etc...

The expert said that there were SEVERE thunderstoms in the flight path that night and that any pilot would have turned around and not even attempted flying through it. He said that the turbulence created by that category of thunderstorm could essentially shake the plane apart.

The irroneous messages that were automatically sent by the plane were a maintenance feature (according to this expert) that tell the maint. techs in france if there is anything wrong with the plane that needs to be fixed before the next flight and that the messages such as "electrical failure" and "loss of cabin pressure" could just be because of the fact that the plane was being shaken so violently that wiring harness were being destroyed and external panels were falling off.

The most unusual points from this plane disappearence are:

-Time it took ANYONE to announce that a plane was "missing"
-Known extreme weather in the flight path and the experienced pilot decided to push through it
-False wreckage found
-AirFrance unable to deny terrorism involved

Im not big into aliens (though they could be out there) or time rifts but...huge thunderstorm, speed, no one knows ANYTHING... Who knows maybe they did actually land in France....Just not OUR France...

Originally posted by Krpano
Domain flight447.com was registered 2 years ago by the Iranian cinema producer Kari Bian.

Well this is odd for sure.

Source - Folha de SP
Translatated by google


Just to add about the explosion theory.
The debris found are not from the flight AF-447.
So, we cannot assume that the spaced debris on the ocean could be caused by explosion in the air.

About how deep the ocean is, i read that is about 3 Km deep on that region...

................

Two Lufthansa airplanes (747-400) passed around the same area just 30 mins before the flight 447 and didnt notice anything unusual even about the weather. Source - Folha de SP Translation by google

[edit on 5/6/09 by Krpano]

2 years ago? Here is the whosis info on the domain flight447.com
Domain flight447.com:
success company
23852 pacific coast highway suite 720
malibu, ca 90265 US

Administrative contact:
Technical contact:
Billing contact:
success company
success company
[email protected]
23852 pacific coast highway suite 720
malibu, ca 90265 US
Phone: +310.4880403
Fax:

Record dates:
Record created on: 2007-09-30 23:33:39 UTC
Record modified on: 2009-06-03 15:37:07 UTC
Record expires on: 2018-09-30 UTC

Nameservers:
ns1.fabulous.com:
64.15.205.211
ns2.fabulous.com:
64.15.205.212

These people just buy up and squat (illegally) on thousands of domains hoping to cash in at some point in the future...

Now IMHO:

There is no way TPTB will announce that flight 447 was brought down by terrorists with the chosen one addressing the Saudis this week... Fact is this incident like many others in the past will be "cleansed" because it doesn't fill a need... Face it, we will never know the truth... Sorry but I am just utterly disgusted with recent events and TPTB/MSMs clear coercion... Just disgusted...

Maybe they are LOST!

Seriously, the first reports were about the plane having trouble with turbulence.
I'd stick to that. Lightning can cause some small holes, like from a needle, and usually it doesn't mean the plane is damaged by that.

But, my guess is, it is possible that lightning could cause avionics to fry, which would bring the plane down.


There was an air crash near Belgrade in 1996. All 5 electronic systems in this airplane (Ilyushin 76) failed, including the 2 hydraulic auxiliary systems. (Some auxiliary systems are neither electric nor electronic, just in case of some strong EMP).

forum.airserbia.com...

One expert who knows about IL-76s and insisted on anonymity told VREME that kind of systems failure is almost incredible.

People I know who are aero-engineers also say that failure of all systems like this must have been caused by a sabotage.

Great Post....love the comments. But lets look into the facts of other accidents....how long on average does it take to get the intel on location, and cause? I wish I could go with this but that four letter word "work" always seems to get in the way of things......So I'll leave it in all of your talented hands.
One more thing.....with the post 9/11 world is it not a little more difficult to get a bomb or hijackers on a plane.....not to mention the fact that all international flights have armed under-cover marshall/police on them. I am really on this one......

reply to post by franspeakfree


Who on that plan was important to somebody ? Meaning that could somebody on that plane have had inside or valuable information against either a corporation or government that could have outted something we have yet to find out about...

Seems like this happened to cover up something else...

What are we focusing on ? The crash.

Where is our attention? The crash.

Something else in the world that is important is happening now and has been for past couple days and this is diverting our attention.....

This is just My opinion but I think it makes pretty good sense.

reply to post by glimmerman


Check this WIRED.com

second line


[edit on 5/6/09 by Krpano]

reply to post by ufoptics


I'm not so sure about Brazilian or French air police...Im flying to Ireland next month (first time out of country besides canada) and in my research, it looks like places other than the US dont have as stringent security measures to board planes...

I doubt the US would have US air marshals onboard an international flight leaving from brazil and heading for france...who knows though...

The expert i mentioned in my previous post also said that the chance of lightning hurting a modern airplane is very slim...basically the lightning would have to strike precisely on an unguarded area that is very small and leads to the fuel holds to create an explosion but otherwise the airplane is built to take a lightning strike