Who is America?

This isn't an "I hate America" thread. There is something that I've noticed on this forum. People here all seem to have one thing in common: They dislike the current government of America and it's policies, and always resort back to the founding fathers. They think the founding fathers are the epidemy of what it is to be America. It seems to me that you all dislike the country as it stands, and as it has been.

Is America the one that dropped atomic bombs on Japan?

Is America the one that runs Guantanamo Bay?

Is America the one that indefinitely detains terror suspects?

Is America the one that created Al-Qaeda?

Is America the one that crashed planes into buildings and cause 9/11?

Is America the one that covers up aliens?

Is America the one that is a secret corporation?

Is America the one with a fake income tax?

Is America the one that manipulates foreign governments?

Is America the one that slaughtered the Indians?

Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?

Is America the one that wants to take away your guns?

Is America the one behind the wheel of the NWO?

Is America the one that elected Bush Sr. Bush Jr. & Obama?

Is America the one with Presidents in the CFR?

Is America the one in cahoots with IMF?

Is America the one to join in the NAU with Mexico and Canada?

At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powell anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, she asked him directly: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?"
Franklin replied, "A republic, if you can keep it."

You cling to the IDEAL of the founding fathers. The IDEAL that they had - an IDEAL THAT NEVER HAPPENED AND NEVER WILL HAPPEN precisely because it is an IDEAL. It is one of Plato's perfect forms.

We never kept it, did we?

Did we ever even have it?

No, we had that ideal strong. It's called capitalism. It's not just a ideal. I would suggest looking at more American History, specifically the Antebellum Period and Pre-War of 1812. You may claim slavery, but at that time, that was a sole moral flaw. At that time, voter participation was extremely high, in the 80%'s. We did not have corrupt presidencies, and you actually had some decent people in office.

Look into some history, than come back here.

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
No, we had that ideal strong. It's called capitalism. It's not just a ideal. I would suggest looking at more American History, specifically the Antebellum Period and Pre-War of 1812. You may claim slavery, but at that time, that was a sole moral flaw. At that time, voter participation was extremely high, in the 80%'s. We did not have corrupt presidencies, and you actually had some decent people in office.

Look into some history, than come back here.

Had. History.

Long ago.

Dead.

Originally posted by NWOhereNOW
Is America the one that dropped atomic bombs on Japan?

Yes, so what? It's a good thing we did. It saved thousands of American lives. Japan started and we finished. They should not have started it if they cannot handle the concequences.

Is America the one that runs Guantanamo Bay?

Yes, so what? We need to hold these terrorists somewhere.

Is America the one that indefinitely detains terror suspects?

Yes, so what? You hold them until the war is over.

Is America the one that created Al-Qaeda?

No

Is America the one that crashed planes into buildings and cause 9/11?

No

Is America the one that covers up aliens?

I doubt it. If America does cover it up, so does every other nation.

Is America the one that is a secret corporation?

Umm....No.

Is America the one with a fake income tax?

No. If it's fake then I want my money back.

Is America the one that manipulates foreign governments?

No, but America should look out for it's best interests.

Is America the one that slaughtered the Indians?

No. That went both ways.

Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?

Umm.....there is a black President.

Is America the one that wants to take away your guns?

Only the sissy little extreme liberals.

Is America the one behind the wheel of the NWO?

I doubt it. IF the NWO is true, it would take more than one country.

Is America the one that elected Bush Sr. Bush Jr. & Obama?

Yes, so what? What's your point?

Did we ever even have it?

Of course we did. This is why America became so prosperous at a breakneck speed. It's why America has overtaken other cultures who have been around for hundreds and thousands of more years. I am talking in regards to technology and the pursuit of happiness and just a plain great and easy life.

Originally posted by NWOhereNOW
This isn't an "I hate America" thread.

Are you sure, because it reads alot like a "I hate America thread".

Some of your comments are highly suggestive and may or may not be accurate.

Not quite sure what to make of it other than America is evil and does evil things to benefit themselves.

If any other country had the same opportunity to do the same, you can bet the farm on it they would, will and did.
The timelines of history have proven that.

reply to post by WhatTheory


These are pretty terrible responses to facts from the OP, especially this one:

Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?

Umm.....there is a black President.

That's like saying using nukes on a country in the past is okay because we don't do it anymore.
Nice logic there buddy..

Originally posted by bl4ke360
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

These are pretty terrible responses to facts from the OP, especially this one:

Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?

Umm.....there is a black President.

That's like saying using nukes on a country in the past is okay because we don't do it anymore.

Nice logic there buddy..

Perhaps you should comprehend what you read buddy.
The OP stated, "Is America the ONE that enslaved the blacks?". Well that question is dubious because the way it's worded the OP thinks America is the ONLY country who had slave labor. What about where America got the blacks? America got the slaves from other blacks and Arabs.

Secondly, because of the awesome system, America has corrected the wrong. America now has a black President so get over it.

Oh and using nukes in the past was justified and I'm sure there will be justification for their use in the future. Your analogy is MOOT.

[edit on 6/1/2009 by WhatTheory]

This thread reminds me of an article I just read.

lewrockwell.com...

With no tourists swarming in the streets, our stroll around the village before dinner was pleasant and unimpeded. We then sat down to have dinner at a restaurant whose menu was extensive and inviting and in which for an hour or more no one else was being served. In response to our questions about present-day relations between Turks and Greeks, Metin indicated that he had nothing against Greeks. “Problem is not people,” he averred. “Problem is always governments.” In reaction to this delightfully unexpected libertarian statement, we expressed our wholehearted agreement.

i wonder how many innocents were killed in nagasaki and hiroshima.
i never hate a country, only it's desicions and individuals who make them.

Originally posted by listerofsmeg
i wonder how many innocents were killed in nagasaki and hiroshima.
i never hate a country, only it's desicions and individuals who make them.

I guess Japan should have thought about that before attacking America right? Taking responsibility for one's actions is a good thing.

Secondly, tens of thousands MORE innocent civilians would have died if the bombs were not dropped. The invasion of Japan would have been extremely bloody. Dropping the atomic bombs actually saved civilian lives in the long run.

[edit on 6/1/2009 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by NWOhereNOW


You are saying that we should forget 60 years of history of America? Are you saying that we should not remember the times when there was a such thing as a fair deal? We cannot aspire to strive for these high standards?

I'm sorry, but the antebellum era of American is alive within us all. The Transportation Revolution, the Erie Canal, Railroads, Nullification Crisis, the divide between federal and states, those are issues that press us and places that still exist

Know your history, or else it repeats itself.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by bl4ke360
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

These are pretty terrible responses to facts from the OP, especially this one:

Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?

Umm.....there is a black President.

That's like saying using nukes on a country in the past is okay because we don't do it anymore.

Nice logic there buddy..

Perhaps you should comprehend what you read buddy.

The OP stated, "Is America the ONE that enslaved the blacks?". Well that question is dubious because the way it's worded the OP thinks America is the ONLY country who had slave labor. What about where America got the blacks? America got the slaves from other blacks and Arabs.

I'm the only one that swallows my food. America is the only one who enslaved it's blacks.

Where I got my food from has no bearing on how I swallow it. Where America got it's blacks from has no bearing on how they enslaved them.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I guess Japan should have thought about that before attacking America right?

Taking responsibility for one's actions is a good thing.

Secondly, tens of thousands MORE innocent civilians would have died if the bombs were not dropped. The invasion of Japan would have been extremely bloody. Dropping the atomic bombs actually saved civilian lives in the long run.

so japan bombing american naval ships diserved a response of wiping 2 cities off the the earth and causing radiation fallout oround the blasts.

The bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in Nagasaki to save 10s of 1000s of lives.
you can't defend their actions, they nuked 'em twice.


[edit on 1-6-2009 by listerofsmeg]

reply to post by NWOhereNOW

America is the only one who enslaved it's blacks.

My friend, I say again, research before speaking. America is NOT the only country who enslaved blacks. England did until abolitionists won in 1807. Spain and Portugal did, they practically ran the slave trade. Just about all the South American countries did too. Some didnt emancipate their slaves till 1888!

Also, the slave TRADE ended in the early 19th century, no more africans were brought over. My good sir, please read some history before you go pointing fingers

reply to post by NWOhereNOW


As usual, your wrong again. It was the Dutch and Belgian that bought the slaves from the Arabs and then sold the ones they didn't need to England and the US as well as many countries in Europe. It wasn't the Americans that brought disease to Haiti and then repopulated the islands with Africans. I see that you must haver been schooled in the US school system post 1960 because you have a lousey grasp of history or the law!!

Zindo

The United States has many skeletons in its' closet and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is one of them.

I asked my grandfather who was a WWII veteran what his thoughts were about the bombing that shook the world and he told me it was the only way, because more Japanese civilians and US soldiers would lose their lives senselessly. Japan would never let a foreigners invade its' homeland. Every man, woman, and child would fight to the death until nothing was left of the country.

I'm pretty sure Truman thought the same way and he had to send the Emperor Hirohito a strong message, and sadly, that was the Atomic bomb.
Every country has their skeletons and we are no exception. All we can do is right our wrongs and move forward.

This country was great to my ancestors that came from the slums of Germany, Eastern Europe, and Ireland. They came here with a suitcase and the clothes on their backs but made decent lives for their families.

We just have a lot of soul searching to do and major house cleaning ahead of us. At least we have the finest government document since England's Magna Carta on our side to move forward with.

Just my two cents on your subject.

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
reply to post by NWOhereNOW

 

America is the only one who enslaved it's blacks.

My friend, I say again, research before speaking. America is NOT the only country who enslaved blacks. England did until abolitionists won in 1807. Spain and Portugal did, they practically ran the slave trade. Just about all the South American countries did too. Some didnt emancipate their slaves till 1888!

I guess you are too dense to get the analogy. You're not reading what I'm typing.

Who swallows your food for you? YOU!

Who enslaved America's slaves?

England did not enslave America's blacks: America enslaved them.
Spain did not enslave America's blacks: America enslaved them.
Portugal did not enslave America's blacks: America enslaved them.
South America did not enslave America's blacks: America enslaved them.

America is the only country that enslaved its blacks.

Also, the slave TRADE ended in the early 19th century, no more africans were brought over. My good sir, please read some history before you go pointing fingers

Perhaps you need to read some PRESENT, because your comprehension is being blinded by your ego.

You're either dense, or a closet racist. I'm sure next you'll tell me that slavery wasn't that bad right?

EVERYBODY'S DOING IT! IT MUST BE OKAY!

reply to post by NWOhereNOW

This is very much a hate America thread!!!

We are just people, like everyone else in the world. We do alot of whats right and we have done wrong. We are not perfect, please don't hold us to such a high standard.

I have complained about my country before and Ill do it again, but I would rather live here than anywhere else, especially the middle East.

haha, I had a good chuckle out of that. Yes, I do get your analogy now, I sorta see that. But if you WOULD be interested...

Slavery existed in African culture before 1482 when a explorer from Portugal 'discovered' the kingdoms on Benin and the various tribal rules of Mandingo and Ghana. It has existed for centuries. When Africans were enslaved, it was a way to raise your standard in society.

I'm not trying to come off as a racist, because I'm not. Slavery was wrong and always will be wrong.

But you do have to remember, at the time, owning slaves was perfectly acceptable, it seemed quite moral then to people.

But things changed, remember everyone thought the world was flat?

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by NWOhereNOW

 

As usual, your wrong again. It was the Dutch and Belgian that bought the slaves from the Arabs and then sold the ones they didn't need to England and the US as well as many countries in Europe. It wasn't the Americans that brought disease to Haiti and then repopulated the islands with Africans. I see that you must haver been schooled in the US school system post 1960 because you have a lousey grasp of history or the law!!

Zindo

See my last post.

You're just avoiding the fact that AMERICA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT ENSLAVED ITS SLAVES.

Nobody enslaved America's slaves except for America.

Jesus, what don't you understand? You are the only one to chew your gum. America is the only one to enslave its slaves. I must be talking to a brick wall.

It's common knowledge that slavery existed throughout the world, but slavery only existed in America in America!

There is no other place for America's slavery to exist but in America!

Why are you so concerned with Dutch slaves, Belgian slaves, and Arabs slaves?

It appears that you are trying to play down the facts by giving the typical childish response of "... but everybody was doing it!"