Air France Plane down

www.flightglobal.com...

Recovery personnel have located the vertical fin of the Air France Airbus A330 which crashed in the South Atlantic on 1 June.

The Brazilian defence ministry says it has discovered "dozens of structural components" from the aircraft.

from other reports they seem to be finding larger pieces now , likely we will see alot more bodies found and soooner rather than later

reply to post by qwertz


In that case the ACARS message indicating loss of cabin pressure would've been one of the first ones, not the very last one.

reply to post by Poon


Good point.

Just for the record, for all to understand:

What is measured is the Cabin Rate of Climb. Logic is, once the airplane reaches its cruise altitude, the Rate should, of course, remain zero. If Rate exceeds a threshold, and it is not consistent with, say, the airplanes actual Rate of Climb (or Descent) then the fault message is triggered.

I literally YAHOOed "Weedwhacker" on this:

I FIRMLY believed and now moreso with his methodical analysis that PILOTS, AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURERS and AIRLINES DO NOT TAKE TURBULENCE AND WEATHER SERIOUSLY.

Hence, WEATHER and PILOT OVER CONFIDENCE IS THE CULPRIT, WHY NOT GPS BASED DATA as primary, WHY RELY ON PITOT'S ICING scenarios? Join me in the GPS revolution for air safety imranokazmi.wordpress com and lets see what the future holds for us

Weedwhacker, BRAVO!

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Man you are fabulous, I literally YAHOOed "Weedwhacker" on this:

I FIRMLY believed and now moreso with his methodical analysis that PILOTS, AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURERS and AIRLINES DO NOT TAKE TURBULENCE AND WEATHER SERIOUSLY.

Hence, WEATHER and PILOT OVER CONFIDENCE IS THE CULPRIT, WHY NOT GPS BASED DATA as primary, WHY RELY ON PITOT'S ICING scenarios? Join me in the GPS revolution for air safety imranokazmi.wordpress com and lets see what the future holds for us

Weedwhacker, BRAVO!

reply to post by iokazmi



Well, iokazmi. I'll take any "YAHOO" I can get, even it it is meant sarcastically.

Hence, WEATHER and PILOT OVER CONFIDENCE IS THE CULPRIT,

It would seem you are incorrect -- some preliminary reports I've seen on the media are suggesting something else.

WHY NOT GPS BASED DATA as primary, WHY RELY ON PITOT'S ICING scenarios?

Let me see if I know what you're asking. You ask about GPS-based data as primary....primary for what? You are aware of EGPWS, correct? It is already becoming quite standard on almost every modern passenger jet. And, it is GPS-based.

If you're suggesting that GPS can help with WX avoidance, then I am at a loss to understand how. Or, did you actually not misspell "Pilot" (as I initially thought) and actually meant to write "Pitot", as in tube???

OIC, maybe you're advocating some sort of GPS-based system for PRIMARY Speed, Altitude and such information? Well...sounds interesting. perhaps as an adjunct...I'll have a look at your site.

For the benefit of others in the ATS audience, here's what I am referring.

There is some speculation that one, or more of the 'pitot tubes' (the probes you can see, usually somewhere on the nose, under the cockpit windows) may have iced over. These probes are electrically heated just to prevent this from happening. The talking about it is implying that, under certain conditions, they didn't get hot enough. Seems that Airbus were aware, and recommended replacement...either of the actual probes, or circuitry, whatever.

For further enlightenment, it is typical for the pitot probes to be turned on before take-off (also energizes other devices). However, to prevent over-heating damage, there is a sensor that reduces the current to the probes while on the ground, switching to a higher current (and temperature) after lift-off. I guess the prevailing concern is that they didn't get hot enough.

Items of this nature are often left to the discretion of the manufacturer and the operator (airline) to decide just how timely the repairs/alterations should be made.

As I've repeated on this board, there are links that form a chain of events leading up to accidents. This may be a link......



[edit on 6/9/0909 by weedwhacker]

This kernal is indeed interesting!

AP.

Airline got replacement sensors days before crash

Air France received replacement airspeed sensors for its Airbus 330s three days before the fatal crash of Flight 447, but the airline's chief executive said Thursday that he was not convinced faulty monitors were the cause.

www.google.com...

Wow take a look at this, it's like the final destination plot coming to life
www.nbcchicago.com...

reply to post by iokazmi


GPS cannot be used as a primary reference source. It measures speed relative to earth, if fact relative to a constellation of satellites.

IAS (Indicated Air Speed) must be read relative to the air the plane is flying through at that particular moment in time.

For example an aircraft could be flying into a 100knot headwind at an IAS of say 450Knots, the GPS speed would read 350Knots. Aircraft would be trimmed and throttled to maintain cruise relative to the air it is flying in.
GPS would not even be close to accurate enough to prevent stalling or flutter from over-speed due to changing wind speeds or direction.

Two new airbus incidents in the last two days!

An Airbus owned by a budget Australian airline with over 200 people on board has made an emergency landing on the remote island of Guam after a fire broke out in the cockpit as the plane flew over the western Pacific Ocean.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Also:

An Airbus A320 with 180 Norwegian tourists has been forced to return to Gran Canaria island shortly after take-off amid passenger claims that one of its engines caught fire.

The Spanish airport authority AENA said that the plane, which belonged to the Spanish airline Iberworld, experienced engine problems after taking off for the Norwegian capital Oslo.

www.timesonline.co.uk...


At the end of May

www.post-gazette.com...


I am starting to see a pattern emerging here...

Anyone else?

Hmm, i never liked the Airbus anyway, but this definitely doesn't help.

(Referring to the post above)

Hi guys and girls new here from the UK - is there any chance that the pane was hit by a meteorite? if the chances of hitting a kid on the arm on the way to school can happen then what would happen if one hit a plane?

Originally posted by trickyitmaybeuk
Hi guys and girls new here from the UK - is there any chance that the pane was hit by a meteorite? if the chances of hitting a kid on the arm on the way to school can happen then what would happen if one hit a plane?

Slime to none, as its already been shown that the plane broke up in mid air and did not explode.

Originally posted by tristar

Originally posted by trickyitmaybeuk
Hi guys and girls new here from the UK - is there any chance that the pane was hit by a meteorite? if the chances of hitting a kid on the arm on the way to school can happen then what would happen if one hit a plane?

Slime to none, as its already been shown that the plane broke up in mid air and did not explode.

Christ, imagine being on it when it broke up mid-air..

That said, i love planes, and being on flights. Landing is always the worst part, haha.

reply to post by Trunkeight

I am starting to see a pattern emerging here...

Anyone else?

Nope.

This sort of scrutiny happens every time there is a major airline accident.

As Harlequin pointed out, the inflight fire on the Aussie airplane was associated with the windshield heaters. American made.

The airplane with the engine problem? Engine likely American made. Either CFM (GE) or IAE (USA and Germany)

[edit on 6/12/0909 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Trunkeight
Two new airbus incidents in the last two days!

An Airbus owned by a budget Australian airline with over 200 people on board has made an emergency landing on the remote island of Guam after a fire broke out in the cockpit as the plane flew over the western Pacific Ocean.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Also:

An Airbus A320 with 180 Norwegian tourists has been forced to return to Gran Canaria island shortly after take-off amid passenger claims that one of its engines caught fire.

The Spanish airport authority AENA said that the plane, which belonged to the Spanish airline Iberworld, experienced engine problems after taking off for the Norwegian capital Oslo.

www.timesonline.co.uk...


At the end of May

www.post-gazette.com...


I am starting to see a pattern emerging here...

Anyone else?

A330 was a windscreen heater fire from its USA made (BF Goodrich) heater


A320 (a different aircraft) was an egine fire in its USA made GE engines.


yeah - USA made equipment failing both times

that the pattern you thought of?

Link: timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Now the wind is ripping off peoples clothes???

There is something more going on here...I have no idea at all what this could be!

Originally posted by bl4ke360
Wow take a look at this, it's like the final destination plot coming to life

www.nbcchicago.com...

It’s not true.

It was a fake rumour that started and now (over a week later) American and UK news are reporting it.

When the Air France flight crashed they interviewed all the people who missed it, there were 4.... None of them were Italian and they all had different names than the Italian woman in the crash.

The name of the woman in the car crash is given as “Johanna Ganthaler”

The 4 people who actually missed the flight were:

Amina Benouargha-Jaffiol and her Husband

Andrej Aplinc

Gustavo Ciriaco

All are alive and well.

Also, the only sites that had it were Chinese web news, Russian web news and an Airline forum. And one of the sites shows a picture of the crash (head on with a truck), but that picture I have seen before on email (the email had pics of when they removed the truck...and it wasn’t nice... that’s how I remember the same picture).

Only now (a week after the apparent death) is a UK news paper putting it online, which they clearly copied and pasted as it’s word for word from the Russian Web News. And some American sites, which have clearly copied and pasted the UK one.

You’d think the news would actually check their sources.

Mikey

reply to post by BingeBob

Now the wind is ripping off peoples clothes???

If you research similar cases -- airplanes that break up mid-air at high speeds, you will find that it is very common.

There is something more going on here...I have no idea at all what this could be!

A little research is your ally.

OK...I'll give you a shirt...maybe some shoes....but completely naked???
I'll even give you a couple of passengers that this happened to...But ALL OF THEM???

Come on now...

Socks...Pants with a belt...those are firmly fastened on your body...Not to mention a couple of them HAD to have their seatbelts fastened during the breakup...