The Rapture How close?

reply to post by kleah


Dont you hate it when people hijack your thread:/
Any ways I think its pretty soon. I base that on Isreal becoming a nation in 1948. The book of Daniel says a generation is 70 years. The tribulation lasts 7 years. So 1948+70=2018-7=2011. Then add in your personal view of when the rapture will happen, post/pre trib. You get any time from right this 2nd and up to 2018. I'm not going to defend this so those of you who want to argue it, dont even bother to hit the respond button. This is MY personal view dont like it to bad!

reply to post by dthwraith

You have to know Satan knows this stuff better than we do.
I heard on the radio this morning from someone who saw documents in the 80's that had deadlines for putting all their plans in place by 2010.
The great Illuminate are hard at work trying to beat God's deadlines.
So I have to not disagree with your numbers.
Like you say, from this very second on.
Good luck and stay close to God.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by kleah
No we have not entered the Tribulation period yet. The Tribulation is contained in a book that is sealed with 7 seals and mention of this book is in Revelation chapter 5:

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." - Rev 5:1

Later on in this chapter we read where the Lamb of God (Jesus) is the only one who is worthy to open the seals. The seals are opened in chapter 6 and it is Jesus Himself who opens them. Each seal represents a judgement of God on the world. As soon as the first seal is opened the Tribulation has begun. The first seal reads as follows:

"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." - Revelation 6:1,2

So the first seal is a rider on a white horse and he's wearing a crown and is holding a bow. Who could this be. This is one who will be making his appearance on the world stage and he will come in the name of peace. He will be given a position of authority which is the reason why he is wearing a crown. The other clue that tells us that he is coming in peace is in the fact that he is carrying a bow but no arrows. Now remember that this first seal is the beginning of the Tribulation period. Since we know this, then obviously, this rider wasn't sent to bring lasting peace to the world. The rider on the white horse can be none other than the antichrist. When the antichrist appears on the scene, one of the first things he will do is end the Mideast conflict. The Jews will believe that he is their messiah and the Arabs will believe that this man is also their messiah. Because this man's appeal will be so great, then many will be deceived about who this guy really is.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." - Daniel 9:27

A "week" as mentioned in this scripture is actually equivalent to 7 years. The Tribuation period will last for 7 years. The antichrist will have a 7 year peace agreement signed between Israel and the Palestinians and then there will be peace - at least for the first 3 1/2 years. Halfway through the 7 years, antichrist will break this agreement and he will then declare war against the Jews and Christians and many will be killed.

This is why in the description of the rider on the white horse it says that he "went forth conquering, and to conquer." The peace that he brings will only be temporary.

I'll start another thread tomorrow to discuss how close we are to the beginning of the Tribulation and why I think that it is so.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by F15-Pilot
I think that the four horsemen is a little story added in the middle of events to teach us a lesson.
Things are gearing up for a worldwide war and we are to have nothing to do with it.
War starts out idealized as this heroic battle for a good cause but it brings death and famine and pestilence.

Mat 16:3 ...You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.

My guess is that we are into the "Trib".... maybe half way???? When all is said and done we will understand that many things that are happening right now are in fact fulfillment of "prophecy"..... we just don't see these things as such... just as it was in Yahushua's time.

2012 is a date to look at. I know it's Mayan prophecy but the date of Dec. 21 2012 always comes up with Mayans, Hopi Indians, Ancient Egypt, and even Bible Code Prophecies if you believe in them. Most people think this will be the time of the end but I think it will be the beginning of Tribulation and all will go through it. At the end of tribulation will the rapture take place after the first resurrection.

reply to post by jmdewey60
And what would this "little story" be that you are referring to. I've been a Christian for 34 years and this is the first I've heard of this interpretation and I've attended alot of Churches in my lifetime. I'm not trying to be critical, but I am interested in hearing this story. I'm an open-minded individual and am open to hearing anything new that may enlighten me. As far as the scriptures in chapter 6 of Revelation go - each horse represents another judgement. Is there another "story" attached to the meaning of these horses that I haven't heard before?

reply to post by F15-Pilot
Maybe I am the only person who sees it like that. We, meaning my church, just skips right over it. There is a historical interpretation but I think it is just so much reading into it what people want to see. John does not tie the scene to any specific events. No further explanation is given other than what the individual symbols mean.
Look at what it is.
It is like a made for tv propaganda piece. They did not have tv back when John wrote it so it is introduced in this cryptic manner. A something or other alerts his attention.(promotionals) You are presented with what is obviously a show piece. A white horse that looks nice for the camera. A non-functional weapon which is also obviously a prop. The Conqueror's Wreath, when the man has not even gone out to battle yet. Another prop to instill this air of invincibility to this fabulous leader who is not about to actually get his clothes dirty.
It is like the hype getting us ready to go to Iraq. That is a good example of the concept in action. We are going to be liberators and God is on our side. Instead it is obvious we couldn't care less about the people and fill the country with depleted uranium that will end up eventually depopulating the place. Over one million dead already. So the end result is nothing at all what the propaganda told us was going to happen.
So take that, and multiply it about a hundred times and this is the build up to Armageddon. That is God's war and we have no part in it. It ends badly with all the participants, so do not participate in it. Better to be one of the people who are dead, (beneath the altar) not from battle wounds, but executed by the state, maybe for not heeding the call to arms.
Before all this history is played out,(which comes up in the next two seals) we first are given a quick overview of how it ends. It is not symbolizing specific events, as such, but teaching an important lesson about how we fit into the whole geopolitics of it, which is none, other than as victims.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

Those who have relations with the whore who rides on the back of the beast, meaning the churches who consort with the church of Rome.
To be a virgin, would be to keep your doctrines pure from the false religion that persecutes the true Gospel and replaces it with a system of symbols, administered by a priesthood that denies our advocate in Heaven.

The Book says quite distinctly if I recall, those that do not know the touch of a woman.... It makes no specific reference to the whore on the back of the beast.

I will agree with you however, that Revelation is a morality lesson and the biblical equivalent of TV in how it sells that message to the people.... The imagery used in the verses is much more poignant than simple descriptions would be, and I think you're right on the money in your assessment of it's general purpose.

reply to post by Gazrok
Here is one definition for the Greek word, Parthenos:
2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity

You have on one side, those who wonder after the Beast, and on the other side, those who follow the Lamb.

I'm only going to comment on this thread one last time because it's obviously heading nowhere. I want to clear something up. The bible is the inspired word of God. It is not a book of propaganda, nor is it a book of fables or stories to "sell" anything. The following scriptures make it clear enough from God Himself that every word in this book has meaning and are to be taken for what they are - TRUTH.

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." - Revelation 22:18,19

God is the one who told John and all of the other writers what to write. This is the basis of our faith. To "downplay" what God has instructed John to write as propaganda or "Hollywood" type promotional material to "sell" something and to tell/teach others who may or may not know the Lord who might be reading these things, is treading on ground that is bordering on blasphemy. There is nothing "cryptic" about what the word of God says. We may not understand what alot of it means, but that doesn't mean that God had it written in such a way as to "hide" anything from us. There are no hidden meanings in God's word.

I hate to be critical, and I know I've already brought this up once before in this thread, but 90% of what I've read in some of these responses have me scratching my head. There are so many personal interpretations being thrown around, that I don't know how anybody can figure out what's fact and what isn't.

It's time for me to get off my soapbox so I'll close with this. If there is anybody who is visiting this site/topic and is as thoroughly confused as I am after reading some of the comments made, then find a good church near you somewhere that is a good bible-believing church, and arrange to discuss your questions with a pastor. Or, check out some of the very good sites on the net about the Rapture of he church and the book of Revelation. You will come out much further ahead and you will hear good grounded explanations for anything you want to know.

God bless

reply to post by F15-Pilot

The bible is the inspired word of God. It is not a book of propaganda, nor is it a book of fables or stories to "sell" anything.

When I looked at my post today, I had this feeling that I did not word it very well because it leaves too much room for misunderstanding.
I was going to make an explanation for it if anyone was bothered by it.

I am not saying God is making propaganda.
John is allowed to see what Satan's propaganda is.
The forces of evil in the world want a great big war to get rid of America, since it has too many Christians in it, in Satan's opinion.
In order to have a big war you need a lot of recruits to participate.
So John is up in heaven and he sees a tv screen with a show playing that is a propaganda piece for "Join the Army" or something about how we are good and "They" are bad. (John is seeing what the citizens of their respective countries would be seeing, if they were watching the mass media of their time)
That is the first vision in a series of visions he has while the seals are being opened.
The next three visions John has, while the next three seals are opened, shows what war is really like, compared to what the evil manipulators had presented. (the white horse)

There is nothing "cryptic" about what the word of God says.

The thing or who, that brings John's attention to the white horse is not descernable.

There are no hidden meanings in God's word.

Some things are on purpose vague because if you knew exactly what it was long ago, when it comes down to happening in real life, you would not be too ready to adapt the meaning to something that could not have been adequately described far in the past.

If there is anybody who is visiting this site/topic and is as thoroughly confused as I am after reading some of the comments made, then find a good church near you somewhere

My advice is to go to a church near you. Be prepared to teach people there. You might find out that you know more from being on ATS than the local churchgoers know from sitting in a pew once a week. Go ahead and tell people what you know. If they disagree and they have a good argument, then you just learned something.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

I doubt theres going to be a rapture. Im sick and tired of these religions trying to scare people out of their minds. But honestly, no matter what happens, there isnt a whole lot we could do about it. So we mine as well not worry and just enjoy the simple things in life.

reply to post by Jess_Undefined

But honestly, no matter what happens, there isnt a whole lot we could do about it.

What we are commanded to do is to cut through all the deception in the world, and there is a lot of it. There is a direct access to God and that is through the Son and we know it through the holy spirit. Anything else is Babylon. We do not need to go somewhere to have someone else give us the keys to some mystery and to go through anyone or anything to reach God.
If we want to go to where God is, we need to learn and become familiar with His voice. When we do, we are not deceived by the lying voice of the serpent. As we go along our way, we say Hey to those we pass by and tell them where you are going. We need to have no fear. We are being led and we are going to a good place that he knows about and we do not.

Originally posted by kleah
As you can see I do believe in the rapture. I am curious to see what other believers think about what is going on in our world and where we might be .Where do you think we are and what may happen next...

It is getting very close. I've been hearing the squeaky hinges. With the talk of a world currency(1,2,3), the destruction of Israel(4) and homosexual marriage(5) and the North American Union(6,7).
Looking down to what is next, the Israeli Prime Minister wants to rebuild the Temple(8). And we know where all of that leads to.

Side note: An evil spirit said this about the end times:
"Our boss is forever pushing us. He constantly stresses the fact that there’s not much time left. I honestly wonder about that, though. The old boy’s been bitching about the same thing now for almost two thousand of your years. I really wonder sometimes."
This was back in the 1970's. This came from the book called, "The devil and Karen Kingston". I've authenticated the authenticity of the book twice. Here's the link:
hbcdelivers.s439.sureserver.com...

1. www.usnews.com...

2. www.bloomberg.com...

3. www.washingtontimes.com...

4. www.chinadaily.com.cn...

5. gcmwatch.wordpress.com...

6. www.dailymotion.com...

7. www.cfr.org...

8. www.israelnationalnews.com...

Thanks,
TT

[edit on 6/13/2009 by texastig]

I don't believe in pre trib rapture either. That would mean Jesus comes back twice but he doesn't.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

IMO he comes back once when everything goed pitch black.

Here is a good link about how the pre-trib rapture came about. I believe its a tool to fool the masses. Christians will be left on earth during the tribulation wondering what the heck. Thinking we can live how we want and pray for forgiveness and everything will be fine because when the time comes poof were all gone in heaven and not have to struggle and strive and auctually look to God for help in our lives. Its too easy.
www.tribwatch.com...

Hi/

There wont be a rapture!

The Bible teaches no such thing!

As I was driving one day I encountered a bumper sticker admonishing me: “WARNING! In the event of Rapture, this car will be driverless.”
The strange belief in the Rapture teaches that some day (sooner rather than later), without warning, born-again Christians will begin to float up from the freeway, abandoned vehicles careening wildly. There will be airliners in the sky suddenly with no one at the controls! Presumably, God is removing these favored ones from earth to spare them the tribulation of the Anti-Christ which the rest of us will have to endure.
Unfortunately the Rapture has been promoted widely by the Left Behind series of books that have sold over 70 million copies.
The Rapture represents a radical misinterpretation of Scripture.

~The Rapture,why the Orthodox wont teach it~

ICXN
helen

Here's another sign: Cash to become extinct as chips take off.
www.news.com.au...

Thanks,
TT

Nowhere in the Bible, can you find the word "rapture"

With 1 Thes 4:16-18

16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Caught up = harpazo (Greek) = rapturo (latin)

The logic fails because there are a huge number of words that don't appear in the Bible, including the word "Bible." Because God's Word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, one could truthfully say that no English words are in the Bible. So "there is no salvation mentioned in the bible" follows the same line of reasoning. Utter nonsense!

Dr Renald Showers is probably the premiere scholar on the subject.


Any day now....

We are outta here!

Bigwhammy I agree with you. For me, it's easier to say, "rapture" than
"the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven, etc..."

Thanks,
TT