The Rapture How close?, page 1

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 12:11 AM

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As you can see I do believe in the rapture. I am curious to see what other believers think about what is going on in our world and where we might be .Where do you think we are and what may happen next...

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:10 AM

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I would say we are deep into the seven years and the half a time will be somewhere in this year or the first two months of next.
That does not answer the question, and I have no answer because the rapture is bunk. I do not know what they call it now, but do you realize when they sprung it on us back in the sixties, they called it the "secret rapture"? It is the same rapture, they just apparently dropped the "secret" part from its title.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

ahnggk

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:58 AM

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I hope rapture happens if not, I'll do my best protecting the innocents from violence and harm if those things will happen.

Locoman8

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 09:04 AM

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reply to post by ahnggk

The rapture is known in my books as Christianity's great false hope. There will be a lot of sad and bitter "christians" when Jesus returns AFTER the tribulation to set His kingdom up on EARTH, not in heaven.

The rapture debunked:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout (not too secret), with the voice of an archangel, and with the TRUMPET OF GOD. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (This is the first resurrection)
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

First off, you have a shout as Jesus descends. This is far from secretive as the rapture is supposedly a secret snatching away. Second, the trumpet of God is sounded. What is the trumpet of God? Most Pre-trib believers hate when I use this because they probably know that I'm right. Let's review the other rapture verses before getting into the trumpet arguments.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET. FOR THE TRUMPET WILL SOUND, and the dead will be raised incorruptible (first resurrection), and we shall be changed.

Once again we get a trumpet reference. It is called the "Last Trumpet". There is no significance on any particular trumpet in the bible except for the 7 trumpets in revelation. The last of the trumpets is the 7th. Let's read what revelation says about the 7th or Last trumpet.

Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet.... the last trumpet. The trumpet of God since it announces the kingdom of God.

One last rapture verse:

Matthew 24:29-31
"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of A TRUMPET, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Another trumpet reference. No special siginificance with "a trumpet" until you read the context and realize that the second-coming, by reading revelation 11:15, speaks of the transition of man's rule on earth thus the trumpet in this passage is the 7th trumpet of revelation. Get the Left Behind movies out of your head. That's not even close to what happens.

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:18 AM

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I should answer the question in the OP. Five years at the most.
I was hedging in my other post because some people believe that the rapture will happen before the tribulation. If that was true, the rapture would have happened a year ago.
Sorry about that but it happens at the end of the seven years, not before.
Good people are not going to be leaving other people behind. You are stuck here, up to Armageddon. By the time Armageddon is done, everyone will be dead, or headed to Heaven.
The only kingdom going on for next thousand years will be off-planet because this one is rendered uninhabitable by the war. All the happy-talk about a kingdom on earth is just that.
Regardless, the world as we know it will soon be over. Satan is the main target of God's wrath and you do not want to be caught serving him or any of his affiliated organizations.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

kleah

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:35 PM

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reply to post by Locoman8[/iWe will hear the trumpet call of God 1Thess.4:16 Don't confuse this with the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15. The dead in Christ will rise first 1Thess.4:16-17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be changed 1Corinthians15:51,53. Then we will be caught up together 1 Thess.4:17. The Rapture and the Glorious apparing are not the same event. Many get the two confused.

kleah

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8

1 Thessalonians 4:16 His last trumpet for the church.Not the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15

kleah

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60

Why do you believe that the earth will be uninhabitable during the 1000 years .God can fix up our ravaged planet and that seems to be what will take place.Tell me why you think not,backed by scripture of course

Locoman8

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by kleah

Since when does the church get it's own trumpet? You have your facts wrong. The bible says nowhere about a pre-trib rapture before Jesus' second coming. There will be only one "appearing" of Jesus and that will be when He returns to earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 explains the saints meeting Jesus in the air but does not talk about them being in heaven at this event. They are to escort Jesus to earth as was tradition for Jews to meet their kings outside of the city walls and escort them into the city. The King of kings will be escorted by His saints to ready the battle of armageddon. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is the same event as 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. You have the dead rising, "The dead in Christ shall rise first" and "the dead will be raised incorruptible". Then you have the living change and rise, "then we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet Him in the clouds" and "and we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". Then you have the trumpet sounds, "the trumpet of God" and "at the sound of the Last Trumpet."

There is no way you can call this a separate event. How about matthew 24:29-31? It talks about God's ELECT being gathered, a trumpet sound, and Jesus returning on a cloud.... except this verse specifies when it happens.... AFTER the tribulation. All three verses are speaking of the same event and all three verses reference each other if you have a reference bible. Also, do a history lesson on the rapture and figure out when the idea of a pre-trib rapture started. It wasn't started with the apostles, I'll give you that much.

Locoman8

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60

The only kingdom going on for next thousand years will be off-planet because this one is rendered uninhabitable by the war. All the happy-talk about a kingdom on earth is just that.

Revelation 20:7-8
"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.
and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the EARTH, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Matthew 5:5
The meek shall inherit the earth.

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by kleah
reply to post by jmdewey60

Why do you believe that the earth will be uninhabitable during the 1000 years .God can fix up our ravaged planet and that seems to be what will take place.Tell me why you think not,backed by scripture of course
I was not sure if it was ok to get into all that. I figured it was about what happens before the rapture, and not what happens later. Since it is your thread, and you are asking, I could address it.
There really isn't all that much to it (as far as what the Bible says) but it is important because there seems to be different views on it.
What may be the most important verse concerning the state of the Earth is Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. . .
John Gill's (English Calvinist minister who died in 1771) commentary on this: "so that there will be such an exact term of years between the resurrection of the saints and the resurrection of the wicked; nor will there be any wicked living upon earth, or in bodies, during that time; for the wicked dead will not be raised with the saints at Christ's coming, and the wicked living will be destroyed in the conflagration of the world, and neither of them shall live again until the end of these years."

So, there is no continuation of the world with a population living on it.
Of course, God can do whatever He wants, but there seems to be reason for this. The Jamieson-Faussett-Brown commentary (1871) provides one possibility: "The Jewish Rabbis thought, as the world was created in six days and on the seventh God rested, so there would be six millenary periods, followed by a sabbatical millennium."
This is reminiscent of Leviticus 25:4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
Another explanation for this period of a fallow Earth may be found in Satan being locked in a pit. This is not so much to restrain him, but as a nice long time to meditate on his future punishment. The word "penitentiary" for a prison comes from the idea that it would give you time to become penitent. We find out later if it did any good for Satan and if he was ready to change his ways.

F15-Pilot

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by kleah

I also believe in the rapture of the church keah. Instead of just throwing information out there that may or may not be true, I'll present what I also believe to be true about the rapture - and that is that it will happen BEFORE the tribulation. All through scripture God always removed or protected His people from His wrath. His wrath isn't intended to punish His people. It is intended to punish an unbelieving world.

Instead of trying to discredit almost all of what has been written so far in this thread, I'm going to take the easy way out and provide you with a link to read. It fits perfectly with the direction this thread is already taking. Almost everything I've read in this thread is all over the place and follows no path of clarity at all. And instead of adding even more confusion to the mix, I think it best to read what the scholars have to say. These links express my views also and it's up to each individual to make their own decisions. Fortunately, whatever one believes or doesn't believe about the rapture has no bearing on our salvation. When millions of people disappear from the face of the earth then the rapture has occurred. Not much sense of spending alot of time trying to win over everybody's opinion on this.

www.godareyououtthere.org...

www.lamblion.com...

This is a very good video on the theology of the Rapture.

www.youtube.com...

ahnggk

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8

The rapture is known in my books as Christianity's great false hope. There will be a lot of sad and bitter "christians" when Jesus returns AFTER the tribulation to set His kingdom up on EARTH, not in heaven.

If Christians hated their lives, then they shouldn't be bitter after all, you'd welcome martyrdom with open arms!

Jesus actually commanded it - 'hate your life'.

Now I'm not sure about Jesus setting up His kingdom on Earth. There's a contradiction on that part when Jesus also said, His Kingdom is not of this Earth. Jesus said, 'when you hear people say, "there it is"' we must not believe it because his kingdom is not of this Earth.. It might also be a deception..

kleah

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by F15-Pilot

All I really wanted to know from those who do believe in a pre-trib rapture was where do you guys and girls think we are.Whether we think pre-trib,mid-trib or post trib we should be brothers and sisters in Christ.I am not really interested in arguing about which one is correct so i will step away a bit.Maybe someone should start another thread about the differences between pre-trib,mid-trib and post trib and debate it.I just wanted to know mainly where we may be on an end times timeline where other believers think we are.I should have presented it a little differently.That is my fault....Sorry

kleah

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60

Do you believe we are in Tribulation right now? Why do you think that if the rapture was going to happen it would have happened over a year ago?I am interested in you thoughts on the matter

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by kleah

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

When you read Revelation, John describes the beasts that represent the old world system. Then a new beast with two horns comes up from the earth that starts out being like a lamb and ends up speaking like a dragon. That would be the US that grew up from a relatively sparsely populated area. It starts out being peaceful and ends up making war. In case you did not notice, the US has all of a sudden become a fascist state, making war in the world and generally behaving in an unethical manner. It is not because the American people are especially evil. It has been taken over by a Luciferian cult of death that wants to get rid of the Christian stronghold by enraging the rest of the world to attack it. Just this morning I heard about our leader making a deal with China to sell them all the blueprints and necessary technology to make our stealth bomber. He told the Secretary of Defense that if he did not facilitate it, he would be replaced. So, we are actually arming the enemy against us. This did not start three months ago, it is a continuation of a policy that was started in the last administration.
As for a date, I am looking at the so-called "Vatican Plan" which the Pope was busy promoting three weeks ago in Israel. Our leader has already declared that it was the plan that he was going to push through. It involves the Vatican having an annex in Jerusalem which will be a sovereign state which covers the part of the Temple mount where the new temple will be built on. This goes along with the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation about the antichrist. When he stands in the temple declaring himself to be god, is in the middle of the tribulation.
Now, we have had the accountants in government who can look at the records and we know that we are in a depression that goes back at least a year in a half. If you were a victim of the economic crisis, you would be aware of a tribulation in your own life, as you are out on the street with no life or future.
I used to follow the street preachers' web site and they had to go into guerrilla mode years ago. Now you would be thrown into prison, no questions asked, in england, where now you would be arrested for wearing a cross. So, there you have the two witnesses that lie dead in the street that is the sure sign of the end. The laws that will eliminate all freedom of speech in the US is going through as I write this. It is hate speech to speak of Christ in public because someone might be offended. I am being hateful right now because Christianity is bigoted and against all other religions. (or so it will be claimed)

[edit on 2-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

Gazrok

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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As you can see I do believe in the rapture. I am curious to see what other believers think about what is going on in our world and where we might be .Where do you think we are and what may happen next...

Unless you're a virgin male who's descended from the 12 tribes of Israel, no need to really worry about it, as it would seem we are doomed if we go by the book, hehe.... If you doubt me, go ahead...read it...you'll see...

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok

Those who have relations with the whore who rides on the back of the beast, meaning the churches who consort with the church of Rome.
To be a virgin, would be to keep your doctrines pure from the false religion that persecutes the true Gospel and replaces it with a system of symbols, administered by a priesthood that denies our advocate in Heaven.

Locoman8

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk

His Kingdom is not of this Earth

Get your facts straight. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this WORLD, not Earth. The word "world" in this context actually means "age" so read it properly like this, "His kingdom is not of this Age." This means the age of mankinds rule on earth. When Jesus returns, it will be the age of the Messiah or Messianic Age.

jmdewey60

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8

The word "world" in this context actually means "age"
Joh 17:6 I have revealed your name to the men you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have obeyed your word.

This is a good example of what Jesus meant when he was talking about the world when that exact Greek word was being used.