Debate: Marshal Law-Will the troops open up on their own citizens?

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I just had to ask the question, do you think US troops, police and other federal officers would shoot on the public?

We have seen of late many threads discussing excessive (or maybe not depending on your view) police actions. Do you see this carrying on over to shooting at the public if there was serious civil unrest?

Do you think the military and police have it in them, or will the human side of these guys just say no? Will training from places like the UWC just turn these guys into cold blooded killers when put in this scenario?

Well I don't see why not, it has happened before.

Here is just one very well known example...

www.youtube.com...

It really doesn't take a lot to demonize a group of people, and during a protest like this (some called it a riot) individual thought and logic tend to disappear and crowd mentality takes over, for the protesters and the cops. Or national guard as in this example.

So if they declare martial law, and people get restless and start protesting, and the cops/soldiers have been fed lies from their officers to demonize the protesters, it could easily happen. In fact that's already been done. All people have been demonized as potential criminals in the minds of the cops, we're all guilty, we just haven't all been caught yet.

'Four dead in Ohio'

Of course it will happen.

There were no reprecussions in the Kent State shooting. Those who did the shooting walked away scott free.

There is absloutly no reason why American military and police should fear opening up on their own citizens.

Americans have been classified as terrorists.

And we all know that the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

Americans will shoot Americans and the Bilderbergers, the elite and those in the halls of power will laugh at how stupid we are, as we destroy ourselves and our country.


[edit on 31-5-2009 by In nothing we trust]

there is a large portion of the military that wont.

It looks to me like the place is a privately run facility sponsored by a company called opsgear. They're out to make a buck by exploiting the growing security culture in the US.

Anywho... The opsgear website is pretty much a survivalist's wet dream. Lot's of cool stuff.

There is a simple reason why American troops will never openly fire on American citizens. They won't be here.

The government is way too smart to have American troops patrolling the streets. They will get Chinese or Russian troops to patrol the streets and the the Americans to other places.

This way, people don't care who they are shooting, they aren't from their own country.

Second, I don't believe the American Soldier's of today would openly fire on American citizens are the request of the government. Remember there are 310 million americans, and not that much army.

More of us, less of them, and we have more guns, so that's your answer right there.

~Keeper

Where was that large portion of the military in New Orleans, when the National Guard "dutifully" went door-to-door disarming innocent, law abiding citizens and then abandoning them all to be raped and pillaged by the armed gangs who hid their own weapons until it was safe to bring them out again? When zero hour arrives you'll see what the oppression force really thinks about their "oath."

I suspect that the PTB really don't care one way or another. I suspect that they are building (have built) a sizable army of machines, both autonomous and telepresence, that will be turned on us.

Sure, some of these police will lick their masters' collective tail end. But they will be the toadie icing on the mechanized cake.

If any force opens fire on American citizens they are picking a battle that they can't win.

The American citizens have way more people and guns. Yes they have rockets and tanks and stuff, but tactics are designed around the weapons it wouldn't be long before tactics were developed to combat that.

It would be very bloody and violent, but the American people would prevail and America would no longer exist as a union. Trust me nobody wants that. Then if America goes off the deep end so does the rest of the world.

The last thing anybody wants is 7 billion people choosing sides. Nobody benefits.

In response to the thread, I don't believe our soldiers would open-up on American citizens in a Martial Law scenario. However, crazier things have happened. To me, that would be insane, because the soldiers would be firing on their own brethren. Family and friends. I think the government would have to bring in foreign troops to conduct Martial Law operations on the continental United States iethe UN). If they used our own military, there would be widespread desertion and mutiny when given the order to kill their own friends and family, no matter what the rationale is behind such an order. It would be devastating to the command and control structure of the armed services.

We'll be having court on my door step if anyone comes for me or my family... "I'd rather die on my feet then serve on my knees"..!!

A hear people say "The soldiers would be shooting at their own family and friends!" all the time in these discussions. Do you really think soldiers would get sent to their own hometowns? Or even anywhere close? They'd be on the other side of the state, at least, knocking on strangers' doors.

And here's another thing to consider: Soldiers wouldn't be sent in to "kill people" or "hunt down the resistance." They'd be sent in on "peaceful" missions like guarding hospitals or quelling riots. They wouldn't open fire until they were backed into a corner - probably by instigators planted in the crowds - and forced to initiate an armed response to save their own lives.

The PTB aren't stupid. They know the soldiers have their own minds. They know we have bigger numbers and more guns. They learned a long, long time ago the strategies they need to deal with that problem.

reply to post by mattifikation


Then they would also know that they would lose horribly too. With the free flow of information in this country it wouldn't take long for the supply lines to be cut off. We have way to many ex military that could mobilize and command a make shift companies( or the whatever the right term is).

The logistics of that scale are impossible and besides the second the free flow of info gets cut off all hell would break lose. Just like an Admiral in the Japanese military said, invading America would be a very bad decision there is a gun behind every blade of grass.

The troops(of any nationality) would quickly fold and retreat once they realize they are out numbered. The American troops would switch sides it wouldn't take long for battle tested soldiers to figure out that what is going on is not right.

Edit to add -

The PTB are only Human they are just as prone to stupidity as everybody else on this planet, they aren't Gods, or immortals, they are humans. You should quit giving them more credit than they deserve.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

The troops in Iraq have yet to figure out that what they're doing isn't right. And that's with their own families screaming it in their face. You grossly underestimate the power of brainwashing to control the masses.

You seem to be under the impression that the PTB would fight us directly. No, not for a second. They'd pitch us against each other, in this pathetic Right vs. Left game they've got us all playing.

As for the precious free flow of information, do you not think there's a system in place to handle that? Just one scenario out of a hundred possibilities: They could stage a "terrorist attack" that leaves the country in a black out. Information stops flowing *instantly.* Local law enforcement would get word from the government that it was a terrorist attack, and spread the word through the community.

The population would be too dumb and gullible to blame the government. They'd blame the "terrorists." The very, very few people who would put up an armed resistance would be blamed for ongoing violence. Just like in Katrina, the government would use that as an excuse to round up everyone's guns. The sheeple wouldn't fight back, they'd give in and surrender their guns.

Listen to me on that point. That part is NOT speculation. In Katrina, NOBODY resisted. Not the troops. Not the civilians. Nobody. Only the criminals who used their guns for violence. The innocent were disarmed. It was an exercise. They KNOW how to get people to surrender their arms WITHOUT firing a shot.

The fact of the matter is, guns are only useful if the righteous are willing to use them. The powers that be know this. They know how not to show their hand. They know how to dupe the masses. When soldiers finally roll into the towns, they'll be welcomed by the vast, unarmed majority with open arms.

And then, when TPTB come out into the open and take their throne of power, the few militia groups remaining and willing to fight will be the "enemy," and the very people they fight to protect will be the ones to rise up against them.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by mattifikation]

reply to post by mattifikation


Katrina was a very different situation. You also discount the fact the NOLA was almost completely evacuated except for the people that refused to leave or couldn't afford too.

If it is going to pit us against each other and it comes to a fire fight then it will be a multiple front war. The logistics are impossible to figure out. All they have is simulations, simulations and real life are completely different.

There are probably about a 100 million gun owners a few million will turn in their weapons, but the one that wouldn't would fight.

The troops fighting in Iraq think it is a good purpose no matter what their family says because their family isn't there and they are providing for their family. The troops can't just refuse to disobey orders the only way for that to happen is for them to in act a large scale mutiny.

The second operations get underway to disarm the citizens word of mouth flows quickly. Like I said the logistics are impossible. It would be a huge cluster# with nobody knowing the outcome.

It isn't cut and dry. Besides Iraq isn't America. Very different scenarios. There are 300+ million people in America 170+ million of which are adults. There isn't an army on earth that control that many people.

And to further prove my point look at Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, etc.

How was Katrina a different situation? Do you think that they'll just wake up one day, and say "Alright men, Roll out. We're taking all the guns!" They aren't stupid. They've been outsmarting America as a whole for decades, and by some accounts, the entire world.

They will create a disaster first. A huge one. It will make it so that Katrina is not a different situation. It will create lawlessness and disorder. People will be begging for the military to clean up the mess, not fighting them off. Logistics will be left to the local level to figure out, with local police leading the charge to disarm us all. Most civilians are probably just dumb enough to help, rather than resist that effort.

Logistics could be kept small by localizing the efforts. Door to door, collecting garbage trucks full of guns that would get smashed down right there on the spot by the trucks' compactors. It wouldn't be nearly the logistical undertaking that you're making it out to be. Hell, it would barely be more difficult than properly carrying out garbage collection night.

There's actually only estimated to be about 80 million gun owners, in a country of 300 million. Most of those folks are just hunters and wouldn't actively fight - just like the Katrina victims didn't fight to preserve their rights.

You brought up a good point about those victims. They were the ones who stayed. They defied evacuation orders. They defied a massive hurricane. But they handed in their guns like brain dead sheep. What's that tell you about the ones who *aren't* defiant?

Soldiers would barely need to be used. They'd probably only be used for support roles to the local police and deputies that would do the vast majority of the dirty work.

Katrina was nothing to compare to.

New Orleans was a single city. Just one. And somehow the US is supposed to disarm all American cities? Just how in hell is that supposed to work?

To suggest that foreign troops will be used against the citizens of America is beyond foolish. No one is that stupid.

In the first place, our military, even if overseas, would rapidly come home, within orders or not. No military commander could stand by and let that happen.

Second, China couldn't send troops nearly as fast as we'd be killing them. This wouldn't be a church social. It would now be ALL Americans participating.

Third, if any sitting government let foreign soldiers on our soil, their life expectancy could be measured in hours.

There may be a few in the early stages that would be foolish enough to fire on citizens, but that would be the worst mistake they could make.

The last time we were fired upon by our army was at Lexington.

And we all know how that turned out.

Originally posted by mattifikation
The troops in Iraq have yet to figure out that what they're doing isn't right.

You seem to be under the impression that the PTB would fight us directly. No, not for a second. They'd pitch us against each other, in this pathetic Right vs. Left game they've got us all playing.

The population would be too dumb and gullible to blame the government. They'd blame the "terrorists." The very, very few people who would put up an armed resistance would be blamed for ongoing violence. Just like in Katrina, the government would use that as an excuse to round up everyone's guns. The sheeple wouldn't fight back, they'd give in and surrender their guns.

They KNOW how to get people to surrender their arms WITHOUT firing a shot.

They know how to dupe the masses.

How's the Iraq experiment working out for them?

There are two dynamics happening in Iraq right now.

1) We are extorting more money out of China (Buy our bogus T-bonds or else) by threating to cut off the flow of China's oil by sitting on the worlds largest oil reserves in Iraq and continually threatening to spread the war into Iran.

2) The troops are being trained in how to deal with domestic resistance (When they return to the homeland) created by a well armed minorty.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by In nothing we trust]

I don't believe many of the troops would open fire on their own people but I full on believe the police would slaughter us in a minute and feel justified in doing so.

I asked some military personel on the base I work on that question several months ago, these people said they would never go aganist the "people". Don't know what all the military thinks. I am sure they would not go aganist families here in the US.