Roswell Debris Confirmed As Extraterrestrial: Lab Located, Scientists Named!

reply to post by xman_in_blackx


I agree with you Xman_in_blackx, the story has enlarged
away from the original small-town incident.
This didn't blow up and become a world-wide event until
a lot later.
Patriotism was different then, the country still believed that
their officials strived for the best, and when something mundane,
like a weather balloon came down in a place where they regularly
did, then you contacted the base, hoped for a reward and went on
with your life.
If the Army say "nothing to see here, move on" then you do,
when they say "we've got us a crashed disc"... then they have.

Brazel knew what sometimes came down on his ranch... he didn't
recognise this stuff.

reply to post by Frank Warren


The documents and memos that refer to them add much to the crash at Roswell. It is taking a long time, but the truth is coming out in bits and pieces. Thank you for the article, Mr Warren. I always look forward to what you have to say on the subject of flying saucers.

... I've just thought of another thing,
the idea that dummies were dropped at sometime,
a balloon came down once and dragged it's
equipment across the desert floor.
A Undertaker remembers a phone call from the Army
base asking about child-size hermetically sealed coffins.
An angry red-haired MP, a black MP who chases the Undertaker
out of the hospital...
I could go on and on.

But sceptics claim...
All these things happened at seperate times and now are being
recalled by several people in Roswell army years after.
They've supposedly 'gelled' them together to make this tale up...
that's a view from debunkers.
They let these witnesses vote, drive cars and hold down jobs huh?

Something crashed that had nothing to do with Army experiments
or picking up traces of Soviet explosions.

So these folk have done this?

I have to agree with some of the other posters, research into shape memory alloys had begun in the 1930's. It is not inconceivable that the alloys mentioned by frank and in the UFO chronicles article were a natural development of this early research. See excerpt from wikipedia below:

The first reported steps towards the discovery of the shape memory effect were taken in the 1930s. According to Otsuka and Wayman (1998), A. Ölander discovered the pseudoelastic behavior of the Au-Cd alloy in 1932.

If this were from a reliable source, would it not be all over the media?

I think we will need further proof on this before some of us get too carried away.

reply to post by Welsh_Mulder


If you read a bit further into the article they do address this point.

The earliest known combination of Titanium and Nickel reported in the scientific literature was in 1939 by two Europeans. However, this crude sample was a "by-product" of research entirely unrelated to the study of Nitinol. Its "memory metal" potential was not sought or noted. The scientists would have been unable to purify Titanium to sufficient levels at that time-and they would not have known about the energy requirement needed to create the "morphing" effect.

The whole article is pretty interesting and it is the corroborating testimony and surrounding history that is particularly compelling. More research on this needs to be done.

It is highly unlikely any mainstream media would take this up as a story. Not because there is no merit in the information but because there is a stigma attached to anything related to roswell.

interesting stuff. The full article is great -- all Roswell enthusiasts should make the effort to read it in full.

I quickly googled the primary scientist named in the article: Elroy John Center.

--go to www.trueufosightings.com...

less than one quarter down the page, there's an interesting anecdote there about Center (under the paragraph header "The 'I-Beams'"):

...In May of 1992 one of us was approached by an informant who told an intriguing story. For the record, he was not a Battelle employee. He had attended North High School in Columbus, Ohio, graduating in June of 1960.

Between January and April of 1958, he dated a classmate named Cathy Center. One evening while he was visiting her home, Cathy's father, Mr. Elroy John Center, told them that while working at Battelle (he had left their employment in 1957) he was responsible for a project which required him to study 'parts' retrieved from a flying saucer. The parts had some sort of writing on them and his job was to 'find out what the characters meant.' He told them that there was 'lots more I can't go into. It's been bothering me since I saw it.' Given that some of the material (actually described as small 'I beams' retrieved from the pre-crash debris field near Roswell, New Mexico in July, 1947 has been described as having some sort of writing on it, the obvious question is did the 'parts' Mr. Center study come from the same crash event?

The fact that Mr. Center's story was told long before the details of the Roswell debris were known publicly, the possible confirmation of his story by the later descriptions of that debris cannot be ignored.

Also, I believe this is probably his graduating class from University of Michigan, 1939 (B.Sc in Chemical Engineering):








[edit on 26-5-2009 by eniac]

reply to post by Welsh_Mulder
I do agree with you,
although to be fair to the OP's referenced article,the article does
say that Nitinol was not a replica of the shape memory metal,
but was a product of human endeavour that was already in the process
(my words) and the inference is that the metal found brought this process
along.They knew,(in the story that is) that Titanium was part of the contents and also Nickel.
Perhaps what is compelling is the telling of Jesse Marcel,or his son, of this stuff reforming itself after bending,and that has always been the story.
To Bloodsearch in edit...we must have been posting at the same time!



[edit on 26-5-2009 by smurfy]

This is one of the more curious tall tales of the American West. It's based on Army experiments/tests of a completely non "alien" nature that either went wrong or were witnessed when they shouldn't have been. The misidentification of the material by someone who wasn't privvy to the nature or specifics of the experiments/tests led to the faulty crashed saucer headline. As the story was told from person to person, the event became overly exaggerated in the same way as the stories of Johnny Appleseed or Davey Crockett did and became a legendary tall tale - an actual person or event that became greatly overexaggerated over time and many retellings. Yet this very myth is considered part of the "proof" of the religion of alien visitation. It will take a lot more than tall tales, blurry images and videos and hearsay to be remotely considered "proof". Even the testimony of some "respectable" witness is still just imagination filling in the gaps of something they don't recognize.
I've seen and heard plenty of "evidence" of the same nature to prove the existance of Santa Claus, but I still don't believe in him either.

reply to post by bloodsearch


I agree and see what you are getting at, however, how can we prove that what is being stated in this article is the whole truth and not an embellishment to sell more copies of the book, also mentioned in the article?

All too often 'evidence' pops up into books but there is never any concrete proof behind it.

I think the mainstream media for this reason is weary of UFO stories. If you make a claim, you need to back it up with proof, not talk of the proof being lost, unobtainable, or the person who made the claim having now died, etc

I want to believe.... but common sense tells me not to.

Originally posted by The Mack
I do not think that anyone claims that the metal was non-destructable, Just more damage resistant than other metals.

Ok, but according to what witnesses said about the material they could not damage it at all, hammer and blow torch were said to have no effect at all.

But it didn't seem to help those aliens one bit, their poor space ship exploded like paper mache all over the desert anyway.

I think this topic title might be just a little misleading.

We're not talking about first-hand analysis of any particular bit of metal linked by a chain of evidence to the reputed "Roswell crash," now, are we? We're talking about some documents that show that sometime not too long after this mythical crash, some headway was made in creating memory metal.

Nothing proving anything extraterrestrial. Nothing even conclusively linking the two things. Just a lot of conjecture and attempts to connect dots we don't even know for sure exist.

Thanks for nothing.

reply to post by tallcool1
Hi,
Maybe you should go boil an egg...see if it changes shape
and then you can go and tell those witnesses they only imagined
things,since you are way beyond the rest of us,
mischievious post my friend!

reply to post by eniac


This part of your quote I find odd in a funny sort of way:

"Between January and April of 1958, he dated a classmate named Cathy Center. One evening while he was visiting her home, Cathy's father, Mr. Elroy John Center, told them that while working at Battelle (he had left their employment in 1957) he was responsible for a project which required him to study 'parts' retrieved from a flying saucer. The parts had some sort of writing on them and his job was to 'find out what the characters meant.' He told them that there was 'lots more I can't go into. It's been bothering me since I saw it.'"

SO, the father in this story is just fine and dandy telling the kid dating his daughter all about the study of the mysterious writing on the chunks of downed alien craft - but he can't say more than that. He'll blab about the absolute most top secret government project ever with the craft and the symbols, but really can't say more than that.

Let's just pretend that this was true. That guy and his daughter and the kid dating her would have been in an unfortunate and tragic car accident/plane crash/murder suicide/Dick Cheney hunting accident or whatever.

Lets deny ignorance instead of embrace it.

reply to post by smurfy


What does boiling an egg have to do with the religion of alien visitation? SO, since there are things on Earth that change shape and physical properties, etc. - this means that "aliens" visit us? I guess I am just to dumb to understand the connection.

reply to post by tallcool1


You're absolutely right. Whatever it is you're driving at.

reply to post by tallcool1
Thanks for your reply,
Although you left out the bit about visiting the witnesses.
Funny thing is,I live in Northern Ireland and one of the favourite
tricks played on a newbie in industry here is to send him off for a bucket of steam,the other one is to send him for a SKYHOOK,
they don't exist here only in America and funny enough skyhooks
were the very things that Roswell was supposed to be about,
if you see what I mean.

reply to post by merka


The titanium/nickel alloy nitinol was introduced by the Naval Ordnance lab in 1962/63. It is surmised that the actual primary work was done by Battelle some time after 1947. This is based on Battelle scientific reports. Battelle is an advanced research and development company that has been doing classified work for the military since 1929. It's main facility is near Wright Patterson air force base. It operates six U.S. national laboratories.

The issue of NiTi being researched in 1939 is basically that it was a by product of a metallurgical experiment studying the crystalline structure of metals. Memory metal properties and recovery of shape in the samples was not the intention of the research nor was it noted in the resultant reports.

Titanium was not the point or focus of commercial or military development until late 1947 whe it became a desired and sought after commodity for use in research and military design. According to the industrial arts index, late 1947 saw a large number of scientific research papers published about the properties of titanium. Most focused on methods of influencing strength and flexibility in manufacturing.

Much of the information on Battelle comes from AF33 (038)-3736 which is a progress report to Wright Patterson from Battelle.

It is rumored that in 1973 the US government studied the effects of psychic power on affecting the shape and hardness of nitinol.
-(Influence on Metal Alloy Nitinol) 1973 Naval Surface Weapons Center,White Oak Laboratory, Silver Springs MD, Eldon Byrd

The same sources found on Battelle and nitinol also suggest that serious research into titanium-zirconium alloys was started in late 1947.

reply to post by Frank Warren


Thanks for sharing Frank, this is great news, let's see what happens and how this progresses, the case has just gotten a bit stronger. It wasn't even a few months ago when an ex-fireman eye witness told his story. Now there's more.

Regards,

Well, having read the article and reviewed the thread and the videos, the NiTi stuff really strikes a chord of truth with me. That's probably because I have personally seen a UFO morph and change shape in the air before, from a disk, to a boomerang thing, to a giant floating city type thing, and then back into a disk. Yes, there were other people with me who also saw it. I'm not relating this experience because I want to change anyone's minds about UFOs/aliens (not sure if it was aliens honestly); on the contrary I'm just posting this for the other people who have also seen similar shape-shifting flying machines and know that they are real.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Albastion]

You know? Just a thought. If this type of metal was reverse engineered and it is a "memory" metal....this might explain why so many UFO's (or USO's - Under water Submersible Objects) are seen diving into the ocean and accelerating at PHENOMenal speeds under the oceans surface...........if the craft was made of this type of metal (or a variation thereof) it would instantly correct any defects to the ships surface as the friction on the ships surface fights the inertial external forces opposing it. The heated surface by friction would instantly repair the ships hull/surface. Just a thought!

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Phenomium]

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Phenomium]