North Korea 'fires more missiles'

Originally posted by jonny2410
Nick also had a psychological disorder and had a violent track record

OK.

The Korean war was in the 50's.

And since then? What exactly has NK done?

Diddly squat, compared any one of the worlds current "established" nuclear powers, thats what.

And while I'm no fan of the country, or their ideology, or the fact that anyone has nukes, I'm also not a fan of this inherent hypocritical insistence that NK is some violent cauldron of military insanity waiting to fry anyone. Its not true.

Based on current actions of the worlds nuclear powers, NK is the least active militarily out of them all.

Think about it. Its true.

reply to post by manbird12000


The DPRK almost always shoots their missiles into the Sea of Japan in the direction of japan from the east coast or from the North into the sea at South Korea.
Almost every country on earth would consider this a hostile act.

We conduct battle drills in international waters along with every other country that has a navy.

They are indeed pushing there luck, but we wont do anything, and you know why? because china are kissing there ass and we dont want china/russia etc on our backs.

N Korea isnt a threat, china is.

Originally posted by jibehoIt won't be long before China is mass marketing their autos to fill the void left behind from the big 3.

That is already in the works. Off-topic but FYI...

GM to sell cars made in China

Enough rubbish now is the Bigger Picture

For a country that has sustained sanctions, pressure and embargo cuba like from the USA and its allies I think NK is doing pretty well.
Technically the koreas are still at war and the US does what it does best, bully countries that do not fall in line with the "democratic" pro american capitalism ideology.

The NK are only building up a solid deterrent. They agreed to drop their nuclear ambitions but the meeting failed because of the US. Not surprising since the US doesnt like peace. War is much more profitable in terms of defense contracts and sales of weapons to south korea and other anxious neighbours. Also an unified Korea would mean the end of US presence in that country, which has become one of america most valuable outposts in Asia.

You people are quick to blame the "crazy dictactor". The NK arent suffering because of Kim, they are suffering because of politics of sanctions which clearly never work, only soften in preparation of military operations (Iraq is a prime example). And contrary to the US the NK never used a nuke, and never invaded another country.

Therefore I understand why the NK are doing what they are doing and I praise them for standing up to their ideals.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by SweetRevenge

 

They are deeply embedded in the mountains surrounding Seoul. Short of leveling every mountain in artillery range, there really isn't much that can be done to stop it.

Napalm?

First strike is in my opinion the best option here. As far the arty surrounding Seoul if it is indeed as a big of problem as some in this thread have said then we already have a decent idea of its location via satellites. Cruise missiles and fighter-bombers should be able to take out 85% percent before they can fire a salvo. Stealths to go into the major NK cities wipe out command and control, communications, radar installations, SAM sites, etc. Send the stealths toward the nuclear facilities as well in the opening minutes. Wild weasels go in closer to the SK NK border and take out what SAM and radar sites are left. A-10s and heli gunships can go in bust a couple hundred tanks to "prevent" a counterstrike on SK. Fighter-bombers can do the rest of the mop-up work as needed. F-15s, and maybe even get a few F-22s out to combat test them, for CAP and fighter sweeps although i don't think the NK air force will be much of an issue, after the first few engagements i imagine most will just run to the Chinese border like the Iraqis did in the first gulf war. I'm not advocating a ground war, if war is the only option than we need to engage in the war that favors us the most and that is a technological war fought with multi-million dollar aircraft and missiles. We need to understand that any countries that are potential enemies of the US clearly understand that in head-to-head conflict with us the stand no chance, even NK with a large modern army knows this. That being said they will take a page from the 2nd Iraq war/Vietnam playbook, fighting an overwhelming conventional force with unconventional guerrilla tactics is the best means of countering all of the apparent advantages that the more advanced force has. NK would have no problem losing 500,000 to 1,000,000 if only to kill 50,000 of our service men because that would enable them to win the most important battle, the battle for hearts and minds in the United States. It would be Vietnam all over again. If we use our strengths against their weaknesses then i believe that this war would have a great outcome as far as disarming a rogue nation, with minimum civilian casualties (they can't be avoided entirely that's just the way it is), while losing as few US/NATO servicemen as possible. It would a long way to stabilize a region that has been on rocky ground for 80 years or more. Also as a I'm sure this will be brought up, i dont think that the Chinese will come to the NK's aid. The Chinese have to see that Kimmy is a tyrant with unstable and unpredictable behavior on a stage that affords the players no room for such ignorance. China wouldn't risk their current position as one of the financial and industrial "superpowers" to come to the aid of one of the few remaining communist countries. Truth be told i look for the Chinese to drop the ole sickle and hammer in the next 30 to 50 years, with China's emerging middle class and their recent influx of money in the last 10 years it isn't a matter of if it is a matter of when they will finally bow down before the alter of capitalism.

reply to post by neformore


Im talking more about their mindset and their lack of restraint, let me list some examples that will show you they are not fit to own nukes.

NK is the country which in the 70's kidnapped several japanese citizens to "prove a point"

Also NK is the country which shot down a passenger plane full of south Koreans and threatens to shoot down more on a regular basis.

North Korea is also the same country which admitted eventually to planting bombs and detonating them in Burma to kill certain South Koreans.

Finally this is the country which just threatened war yesterday if South Korea agree with the US to search naval vessels in international water for arms and nuclear material smuggling.

This clearly shows you what sort of government, if you can call it that, rule NK is under. Allowing them to have nukes would just be madness.

AS for what will happen i am sure it will all lead to some military action sooner than later, which the US need to resist.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by jonny2410]

reply to post by jonny2410


THIS is the hypocrisy that bothers me so much!

Ok, so NK has done all that, and I agree, they shouldn't have nukes. Fine! But c'mon! When are you gonna look in the mirror?

- The US is the only country to have ever used a nuke during a war
- The US wiretaps its own citizens without a warrant
- The US tortures POWs (and again, probably its own citizens if it deems them a threat)

Now, don't get me wrong... I'm sure EVERY country has done this in some way shape or form. But dammit! STOP POINTING THE FINGER!

It's PEOPLE in general that aren't smart enough to deal with this kind of power, regardless of where they're from. We're like the kids that just found the matches... we're bound to hurt ourselves.

Let's just hope that, if we do, we learn our lesson. Unfortunately, judging by humanity's track record, I'm not overly confident.

(Edited for clarity)

[edit on 26-5-2009 by oaf21]

reply to post by oaf21


The more pressing issue is the fact that NK need cash and they would be willing to sell their material and Nukes to Iran or Syria it could be said.

If you believe Iran should have nukes then you are mad, surely you don't.

reply to post by jonny2410


the usa has captured civilians , this year and tortured them , the usa has shot down civilian airliners , so whilst NK might not be the 1bed of roses` , it is on par with the ` wonderful` USA in what it has done.

Originally posted by jonny2410
reply to post by oaf21

 

The more pressing issue is the fact that NK need cash and they would be willing to sell their material and Nukes to Iran or Syria it could be said.

If you believe Iran should have nukes then you are mad, surely you don't.

I believe NO ONE should want/have/feel the need for nukes. But if someone has them, they have absolutely no right to say someone else can't.

I for one cannot and will not swallow any 'do as I say not as I do' rule. And it angers me when I see people try and do it to someone else.

reply to post by jonny2410


The USA gave iran a nuclear reactor when the puppet `the shah` and his secret terrorists/police were in charge ,after the brutality of the SAVAK and he 20 years the people endured torture 1979 couldn`t come quick enough.

[edit on 26/5/09 by Harlequin]

reply to post by TheEndofEvolution


Hi TheEndofEvolution, I don't see a difference. It is all flexing military muscle in my book.

America is considered the axis of evil in many Countries. Even though it's a "fun" place to live in with all sorts of rights (that are deminishing as we speak), I don't see the United States as the benchmark for Moral and ethical standing.

Seriously, the US has never fought a war based on ethics or morality, nor has it ever been concerned with the well being of people in other countries or even it's own.

Yet I think it's the wave that it rides on to justify it's military actions to it's own people, and we fall for it every single time.

Sign the multi billion dollar bill to fund the war against the axis of evil we say!!
Jump on the bandwagon to Bomb Korea, the evil country that most American's couldn't even point to on the map!

LOL

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by jonny2410

 

the usa has captured civilians , this year and tortured them , the usa has shot down civilian airliners , so whilst NK might not be the 1bed of roses` , it is on par with the ` wonderful` USA in what it has done.

WHAT!!?!?

Please cite your sources that clearly has proven that the USA has captured civilians not involved in military operations, and clearly show us when the US shot down a civilian airliner?

I think Kim Yong Il is behaving like a spoilt child in an 80 year olds body ..and he wants to break his toys..sadly because this behaviour has been aloud ...he will break his toys!!

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by jonny2410
Nick also had a psychological disorder and had a violent track record

OK.

The Korean war was in the 50's.

And since then? What exactly has NK done?

Diddly squat, compared any one of the worlds current "established" nuclear powers, thats what.

And while I'm no fan of the country, or their ideology, or the fact that anyone has nukes, I'm also not a fan of this inherent hypocritical insistence that NK is some violent cauldron of military insanity waiting to fry anyone. Its not true.

Based on current actions of the worlds nuclear powers, NK is the least active militarily out of them all.

Think about it. Its true.

While that's true, there is one problem. NK and SK are still technically at war and have around 1 million men standing just a few yards from each other on the border. That's a recipe for trouble and has been for some time. When one side starts testing nukes there is a very real danger that things could get out of hand. While I don't want NK getting nukes in the long run (not many do I would imagine) I'm more concerned about something sparking off a huge conflict in the region that would include the US, Japan and maybe even China.

reply to post by titian
Originally posted by jibehoIt won't be long before China is mass marketing their autos to fill the void left behind from the big 3.

That is already in the works. Off-topic but FYI...

GM to sell cars made in China


Maybe that is the tradeoff then. We get to attack N. Korea and China gets all of our car manufactoring.
Sounds just like one of those back room deals to me.

Originally posted by oaf21

Originally posted by jonny2410
reply to post by oaf21

 

The more pressing issue is the fact that NK need cash and they would be willing to sell their material and Nukes to Iran or Syria it could be said.

If you believe Iran should have nukes then you are mad, surely you don't.

I believe NO ONE should want/have/feel the need for nukes. But if someone has them, they have absolutely no right to say someone else can't.

I for one cannot and will not swallow any 'do as I say not as I do' rule. And it angers me when I see people try and do it to someone else.

I agree with you there, that no country's should have nukes. And i also agree that if one country has nukes then every country is equal and technically has the right.

However i believe the fact we don't want them to have them is right as they pose a threat to my country and our Allies including the US due to the fact they are under so much pressure they may crack or sell nukes to other countries such as Iran who are even more dangerous.

I think the bigger issue in this is not an actual nuclear war or strike but the war that could happen to prevent NK from obtaining the ability to fire them(at the moment they cannot as we know put it in a warhead). We don't want to be dragged into another war, especially in NK if they decide to invade SK.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by jonny2410

 

the usa has captured civilians , this year and tortured them , the usa has shot down civilian airliners , so whilst NK might not be the 1bed of roses` , it is on par with the ` wonderful` USA in what it has done.

Your ramblings are wildly off mark my friend. Neither of these have anything to do with the topic at hand.


You all can try to justify or rationalize it all you want but if you were a citizen of South Korea you would be a little worried right now.