Just divide America already!

I'm thinking it's inevitable that America will one day become two countries. There is such a division here now, I don't see it lasting without major conflict. Of course, those in control won't be smart enough to do anything this drastic without civil war being waged. What would be wrong with un-uniting? We're not exactly united anymore anyway. We might as well call it the Untied States of America. We could have "Old America", and "New America". Old America could actually value the constitution and freedom, and New America could just keep doing what they're doing now.

Divide it where? How do you decide such a thing?

Won't happen.
Been tried, didn't work.
Besides "differences", what is the success rate that a divided America will happen?
Don't get me wrong, "anything" can happen, but I don't forsee nor envision what you are describing.
Seems more "wishful" thinking than anything remotely possible.



seekerof

It won't happen, at least in the method in which you might think, Satyr. Mostly because of economic reasons. You can't split the country without at least one portion, probably both, succumbing to economic disaster. I believe that was the main reason for the first civil war. The north couldn't survive without the south's money.

At some point (soon, IMO) economic disaster will hit even with the country united. Fiat currency cannot sustain this planet forever and the Iraq invasion shows me that it was a desperation move to keep U.S. funny money valued. There will likely be a natural split once the federal union goes bankrupt. The states that survive will join back together in various unions. Perhaps the south will return.

I think you will get your wish Satyr. Albeit for reasons unrelated to social conflict.

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by heelstone]

How? Just split it right down the middle. If you're on the wrong side, you can move.
Seeker, it's not a question of whether they want to do it or not. It's inevitable. Tried before? You mean the confederacy? That's a bit different than what I'm talking about. They didn't try it before, exactly, but more resisted uniting in the first place. Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but it's either that, or a major civil war, or both. Everyone knows it's coming, one day. This isn't the America I consider myself a citizen of anymore. Many people feel the same.

I think you will get your wish Satyr. Albeit for reasons unrelated to social conflict.

You may be right. These are very unstable times, and it's only getting worse. Quite frankly, I'd welcome any change.

[Edited on 4-29-2004 by Satyr]

I think your on something, but the goverment would every do that.

If it happens it will be like the civil war, and thats what it will be.

Would other countrys come here the help our goverment if there was a civil war?

Now the interesting thought would be what countries would align with what half? Would Mexico automatically align with the West? If it was split in the middle, What would the capital of the west be?

Plausible based on the complete #hole that our society of lost values is turning into.

What system of government will there be?
How will the new countries be sub-divided (provinces, states, counties)?
Who will take care of the less-fortunate?
How will we ensure that each country doesn't attack the other for resources?

Originally posted by titian
Plausible based on the complete #hole that our society of lost values is turning into.

What system of government will there be?

How about peaceful tribes? Actually, our gov't would be fine, if they stuck to the constitution and weren't a bunch of lying sacks of #.

How will the new countries be sub-divided (provinces, states, counties)?

Play it by ear, I suppose. Not that it matters much to those who finally have freedom. I'd happily live anywhere in the US that I'm not under the marshal law of our current admin.

Who will take care of the less-fortunate?

I never thought that should be a gov't responsibility in the first place. Family, friends, neighbors, like the old days. It worked fine then, didn't it?

How will we ensure that each country doesn't attack the other for resources?

I'd assume that this is only going to happen after the fighting is done. That will pretty much be the only assurance anyone will have. Not much different than now, really.

Balkinizing the US would be an absolute disaster for many reasons. (trade, immigration, legal jurisdiction, international vurnerabilities in defense and foreign policy, dividing up the military, etc...) yeeesh.

I'm not sure we'd mind letting southern california go though.....

[edit added] ...as long as Michael Jackson goes with it! [end edit]

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by Ambient Sound]

john titor!

hahah

i think this could very well happen though in all actuality. there is more division in this country than there has been in some time. good point

Alot of people don't get what I'm suggesting. If something this drastic were to happen, things that you think would be a disaster would cease to be as of much of importance. It would be more important to have freedom than economy. When we reach that point, all other points are nill. It's called rebuilding a system...one that's not disfunctional.

I wonder if more states will get political parties like the Alaskan Independence party.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.

The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, that Alaskans achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, and promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.

www.akip.org...

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by AceOfBase]

I'm not sure we'd mind letting southern california go though..

Hey,be nice. I live in southern california.
The way it would split, the coasts would continue to live in excess and the flyover states would be strangled.
Hummm, of course without the food from the center how long could the coasts survive on sushi. But on the other hand how long could the center survive without income from the coasts.
Where would Paris Hilton shoot her t.v show? Oh man the questions are endless.
As a famous drunk driver and p.c.p. user once said"why cant we all just get along"

Wasn't there like three states that wanted to sort of secede into their own independence awhile back? I know Alaska was one of them. Where the hell is their "mission" webpage, or whatever? I can't seem to find it. There's a MN Indepenence Party too, apparently.

if part of america were to break from the rest i feel there is a good chance they would indeed be successful

we cant even be united on killing foreingers, who may or may not be harming our country. If we were to split it would probably be between the people willing to fight for the split, and people who dont want to fight over anything

If the United States were ever to divide, it will be the end of the greatest nation and all those govenrments that have been waiting for the U.S to become weak would have won.

The west of the U.S is mainly the farming, herding and agricultural side of north America, while the east is mostly manufacturing and trading section of the States.

If you divide those two, i believe there will be a major economical collapse worse than anything terrorists could do.

If this ever happens, you can bet that there will be other nations trying to take control of those divided states, we would really know what is to be oppressed.

There is no way that this country would split in two. What possible basis could you use to split? Religion? Economics? Race? Someone said freedom. Freedom from what?

There is no way the majority of the country would stand for it. I live in the northeast and know people in the southwest, southeast, northwest and every state in between. Many of them I consider as close as members of my family. In fact, I HAVE family all over the continent. How could I posture myself against them? No way. And I can safely say that they feel the same way that I do.

IMO, those who would actually attempt to divide this country from within would suffer badly.

Originally posted by jsobecky
There is no way that this country would split in two. What possible basis could you use to split? Religion? Economics? Race? Someone said freedom. Freedom from what?

From what our gov't has become, and is becoming. More than ever, people are losing faith in the system. These people feel it's a lost cause, and that it's ridiculous to have to continue to pay them for their "services".

There is no way the majority of the country would stand for it.

You don't understand. The majority will be for it, if it happens. Either that, or the majority will lose a civil war. We're not talking about democratic decisions. We're talking about a forced division.

I live in the northeast and know people in the southwest, southeast, northwest and every state in between. Many of them I consider as close as members of my family. In fact, I HAVE family all over the continent. How could I posture myself against them? No way. And I can safely say that they feel the same way that I do.

Why would you be against them? Are you against Mexicans who live in Mexico? It would be the same thing. Two separate countries side by side.

Come on! Is it really that tough to wrap your mind around this? You have to have the ability to imagine you have a fresh perspective. Some of you obviously can't do that.

Trade would not stop. Don't we trade with other countries? What's the difference? People still need things.

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
I'm thinking it's inevitable that America will one day become two countries. There is such a division here now, I don't see it lasting without major conflict. Of course, those in control won't be smart enough to do anything this drastic without civil war being waged. What would be wrong with un-uniting? We're not exactly united anymore anyway. We might as well call it the Untied States of America.

We could have "Old America", and "New America". Old America could actually value the constitution and freedom, and New America could just keep doing what they're doing now.

I agree with Satyr. Although I don't think it will happen, I do think it should happen. Why? Simple. Half this country seems to be in favor of the Republicans and the other half seems to be in favor of the Democrats. Now I know you're going to say "but it's been like this since the beginning." True but we've never had back to back elections where the country is split on who they want to vote as President.

1st election: Bush vs Clinton
2nd election: Bush vs Kerry

Now of course there aren't people in the streets screaming insanity in the streets because the man they voted for isn't President but if you think about it the polls speak for themselves. This election and the one before have been extremely close. Only once before in history has this happened. And that was back in the beginning.