Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

I think what he is asking is....

If our banking systems are predicted to fail (society and reality as we know it) and some group that YOU are not affiliated with (ie: The Goof Goons Bank of Jersey) comes along and promises to keep your life savings safe...would you hand them all of the cash hidden in your matress?

I doubt it. I doubt it very much.

How do you think people feel about their children?? People that pay attention to details and who assume the fear of a future scenerio of societal paranoia via tragedy is not enough to risk their future and the future of their offspring.

As jaamaan is asking: "This argument is mostly seen as valid in the western world where i live and again systems that deal with this medical and personal identification information have transparent and verifiable safe guards build into them.
Does this system of CHIP got any of these safeguards other than that i can look on some computerscreens and word of mouth that it is all ok."

The answer aka MY answer?

Using organized, established and 'seemingly' trusted affiliations to do the dirty grunt work of the government since using or associating any government agency to the position (police, senate, judiciary) would raise red flags and cause people to assume 1. it is done by tax dollars (which it is, in all honesty) and 2. it would be a violation of civil rights.

Do you honestly think that the top 1/5 *if not more, of your precious Masons give a crap about any of societies problems? lol

Shirely, you jest!! Time to cut the apron strings boys!!










[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

So if all of this is such a good idea, why don't we all take a pic of our child, swab the inside of his/her mouth and put it in a ziplock, snip off a bit of hair and fingernail and make sure the name of the family dentist is readily accessible? Would that about cover it? Why would I need to go stand in line with my child for someone else to do this? How do you all explain this to your children, "Honey, this is in case some bad man takes you. No, it won't help mommy and daddy find you. Don't worry about it. We've got a swab!"
Sorry, it's early for me....

Originally posted by suzque66
Using organized, established and 'seemingly' trusted affiliations to do the dirty grunt work of the government since using or associating any government agency to the position (police, senate, judiciary) would raise red flags and cause people to assume 1. it is done by tax dollars (which it is, in all honesty) and 2. it would be a violation of civil rights.

Here is where your personal opinion and your lack of research into the topic becomes painfully obvious. A simple search would have displayed to you that Police departments throughout the enitre country are offering similar programs, using tax dollars, but with this caveat: they typically keep the information in a database.

Now, since you feel that this is a violation of people's civil rights (you being a constitutional lawyer and all) I would expect your next step is to begin preparing an inquest into this behavior and also procuring a cease and desist order to prevent further programs while you sort this out in the judiciary system.

Do you honestly think that the top 1/5 *if not more, of your precious Masons give a crap about any of societies problems?

The top 1/5th? Are you sure it is not the top 3/10ths or maybe the top 15/32nds? Your 'logic' is just as arbitrary as your unfounded opinions.

Shirely[sic], you jest!!

I am not jesting, and please stop calling me Shirley.

Originally posted by calmbutwary
So if all of this is such a good idea, why don't we all take a pic of our child, swab the inside of his/her mouth and put it in a ziplock, snip off a bit of hair and fingernail and make sure the name of the family dentist is readily accessible?

No one is saying that it is not a bad idea. As a matter of fact I think it is a very good idea. I would also recommend laminating the fingerprint card and placing the child's image(s) on a DVD for ease of retrieval.

Would that about cover it?

It surely would, with the other suggestions offered.

Why would I need to go stand in line with my child for someone else to do this?

Many people may not know how to burn an image to a DVD/CD or posses the proper equipment. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, I think a sense of community is also fostered as members of your local neighborhoods gather as well and have the opportunity to meet or reconnect. At the event mentioned in the Original Post (which I attended) several of the parents were discussing the formation of a community watch program, which I thought should have made the article. Would they have done this otherwise? Maybe. But they are doing it now and that is a very good thing.

How do you all explain this to your children, "Honey, this is in case some bad man takes you. No, it won't help mommy and daddy find you. Don't worry about it. We've got a swab!"
Sorry, it's early for me....

They same way you should explain all things to your children, with honesty and sincerity. My parents had the whole 'don't talk to strangers' speech with us when we were younger and I knew the importance of listening to them. We had to memorize our phone numbers, address, date of birth and other relative information. She also had us finger/footprinted and kept these at home.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by calmbutwary
So if all of this is such a good idea, why don't we all take a pic of our child, swab the inside of his/her mouth and put it in a ziplock, snip off a bit of hair and fingernail and make sure the name of the family dentist is readily accessible? Would that about cover it? Why would I need to go stand in line with my child for someone else to do this? How do you all explain this to your children, "Honey, this is in case some bad man takes you. No, it won't help mommy and daddy find you. Don't worry about it. We've got a swab!"
Sorry, it's early for me....

It is for a paranoid society that likely over 35% of the missing children in these instances are because of forced foster-care home runaways/legal-abduction, known pediphile (chronic) offenders or about the 3% that are taken at random.

That is the whole point calm, to introduce your own children to this paradox is to induce them into accepting things that may seem out of place for them. Yet, because it is done so by a parent--it must be right, it must be just.

In the future, these children who have limited memory of the entire event may be told that their parents sold them at that time?? They could be told that the information from their DNA causes 'for the betterment of society..they need to be locked up'??

My imagination runs wild with all kinds of futuristic scenerios. Things like any child even 20 years ago wouldn't imagine about today.

Yes, wouldn't it just be a lot cheaper in this case to make a 'do it yourself' kit for all of your children? If pregnancy tests can test the accuracy within days of conception now...wouldn't ya think that a kit like this can be done just as easily? It would save the Masons and a church a lot of time and manhours. But then again, putting the power of a child's destiny into their parent's hands hmmm could be dangerous huh?

btw. keeping an active file on children is also a good way to keep track of where the parents are if they decide to move....by mandate children always have their school records follow them.

"They same way you should explain all things to your children, with honesty and sincerity. My parents had the whole 'don't talk to strangers' speech with us when we were younger and I knew the importance of listening to them. We had to memorize our phone numbers, address, date of birth and other relative information. She also had us finger/footprinted and kept these at home. "

wow, I was allowed to roam free. Yet you accuse me of being paranoid LOL.

Back in the day, we talked to strangers, we jumped into lakes (and do not even attempt to tell me to jump in one now), we jumped on and around rusty nails.

Thank God for the masons. Now we don't have to. We are safe knowing that in the future......their DNA will pop up for some unknown reason (perhaps by a routine traffic stop) and voila...they disappear into the night to be some geezer's new LIVER.




[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

That's what is so sad and disturbing. So many wingnuts having children who have no idea how to raise them or protect them. Unfortunately though, that's how it's always been.

reply to post by jaamaan


while I certainly don't want to get into a pissing contest on this thread. (that shoud have been abandonded on page 2) The only way for you to be sure about the data would be for you to provide the PCs for this program at a local level. You could deliver them in the morning, and get them back each night. Then you could change the hard drives out and burn the old ones. Now this sounds like a terribly expensive undertaking for one person, but if you formed a group. Perhaps a charitable organization that did fund raising efforts in order to help the community. Now that might be a good thing. trust me that the masons and the curches doing this program would be happy for that assistance. You see, there will always be someone who doesn't trust a group that gives and doesn't look for the reward for giving. I bet there are a few that don't trust the Shriners hospitals. Those evil shriners helping burned and cripled kids at no cost to the parent. But what do I know. I am just a 40 year old guy with kids still at home and a few friends who are not cats.

calm...

honestly, I have a hard time for people that boo-hoo to the goverment for any little justice or assumed God-given rights.

I have even less pity for those that cannot effectively choose between the unnecessary 'stuff' they accumulate by having two incomes instead of effectively having one productive parent at home present and accountable.

If living beyond your means would put your child's life or emotional stability in danger...by all means

SEE THE MASONS! They will help you (watches the Masons lick their lips and roll their hands in anticipation) LOL

network guy:

"Perhaps a charitable organization that did fund raising efforts in order to help the community. Now that might be a good thing. trust me that the masons and the curches doing this program would be happy for that assistance. "

I have already suggested that a third party un-biased computer firm be in attendance. Now these guys claim they know nothing about the 'actual' computer input/output side of the organization.

you also said: "You see, there will always be someone who doesn't trust a group that gives and doesn't look for the reward for giving. I bet there are a few that don't trust the Shriners hospitals. Those evil shriners helping burned and cripled kids at no cost to the parent. But what do I know. I am just a 40 year old guy with kids still at home and a few friends who are not cats. "

Yes the Shriners...another group of saints

Former Shriners Hospital CFO Pleads Guilty to Stealing
More Than $828,000 from Shriners Hospital

wyomcases.courts.state.wy.us...

sandyfrost.newsvine.com...

http://__._/wiki/Shriners_Hospitals_for_Children_Special_Investigative_Report_2008

stlouis.fbi.gov...

need I go on? do any search under keywords "shriners masons fraud'



[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

reply to post by suzque66


I agree with you about parenting. And even though I don't really have anything against Masons, these fingerprinting fairs just don't sit very well with me. When it comes to my children, I have learned to go with my gut.

reply to post by calmbutwary


I'm a proud Mason, so I am certainly biased on this thread.

Please be reminded though, we do not force the families to come to us. They line up during each event 200-300 total in a time span of 3 or 4 hours.

What this all boils down to--the families make the choice, the families maintain the information, the families choose what to do with the packets given to them. The Masons keep absolutely NOTHING obtained during these fairs.

I think people are giving way too much credit to our country's Masons.

"I'm a proud Mason, so I am certainly biased on this thread.

Please be reminded though, we do not force the families to come to us. They line up during each event 200-300 total in a time span of 3 or 4 hours.

What this all boils down to--the families make the choice, the families maintain the information, the families choose what to do with the packets given to them. The Masons keep absolutely NOTHING obtained during these fairs.

I think people are giving way too much credit to our country's Masons. "

That is like saying "Johns' are not the sole responsibility for the occupation of prostitution...or that strippers are only entertainment.

LOL

You are exploiting fear and those who perhaps are not as astute as others who refuse to blame their life's woes upon society and actually become proactive in prevention of the unkind becoming more rampant than the kind.

Masons are fear pimps.

Originally posted by suzque66

You are exploiting fear and those who perhaps are not as astute as others who refuse to blame their life's woes upon society and actually become proactive in prevention of the unkind becoming more rampant than the kind.

Masons are fear pimps.

Perhaps you have Freemasons and the media confused? One single advertisement flyer posted at a bulletin board at a grocery store is certainly not fear mongering?

Our flyers are found right next to--academic tutors, musical instrument instructors, and lost pet owners' flyers.

Not flyers...the multitudes of these database fairs.

Flyers would to you guys would imply dropping papers out of an airplane advertising the new location of your whorehouse. LOL

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

Oh I see the other Masons got tired and called in their 3rd gun, MO.

Curly and Larry went to bed.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

k Suz has some work to do, I am not chickening out, I have to go fix a computer.

You Masons feel free to call more of your Mason buddies, the ones you have now truly don't have a clue what is really going on in the real world.

Originally posted by suzque66
k Suz has some work to do, I am not chickening out, I have to go fix a computer.

You Masons feel free to call more of your Mason buddies, the ones you have now truly don't have a clue what is really going on in the real world.

Perhaps you can remain on topic and begin presenting facts/evidence to support the initial post.

Slinging poor insults out doesn't help validate the IP argument at all. One more reason this thread should have died before it evolved into page two and beyond.

I will gladly provide further insight and facts from my own perspective, but can't if you only want to engage in a silly war of insults.

Suz, I will not post on this thread anymore and I hope the rest of my brethren follow me. You don't want a discussion, you want points. Trolling for spanish mackeral is much more fun, should you find yourself near the ocean. I am glad you are such a super parent and a super person. You should take pride in your amazing ability to pat yourself on the back. Most can't do that so well. Please feel free to stay as far away form a mason as you can. They are evil you know. And enjoy your cats.

Originally posted by suzque66
You willing to argue with me guys because I just plain REFUSE to believe the mason agenda balogna,

And yet you have given no reason for refusal? You seem to hate them for the sake of hating them.

Originally posted by suzque66
You claim to be authorized to defend the Masons yet, a concerned citizen/parent is asking questions and you scoff him off like he is the bad guy.

Jaamaan was legitimately asking questions and concerned. You were just trying to defame. Jaamaan was being civil.

Originally posted by suzque66
Aren't you the one who said 'go to a booth and check it out for yourself'? Why would he waste his time doing that when it is obvious of the kind of rude responses he would get for being too nosey...online.

Jaamaan said there was no way to verify what we were saying online. In a most polite manner I suggested that they go to a CHIP event and see what it is about.

Originally posted by suzque66
One mason says it is done with paper, another says it is a computerized screen lol

it is all fishy

Every state is different. We electronically scan ours in Idaho, but it is then printed on a piece of paper.

Originally posted by suzque66
and yes I understand swabs just fine. Does the swab-taker remove his/her gloves after each child for disposal? Are those gloves destroyed and/or given to the parents after they hold their child's mouth open during the swab?

No it's apparent you have no idea about taking swabs. I am not trying to be rude, but you are just grasping for straws. Say we didn't, you would say we are trying to collect DNA that way, but the glove never comes in contact with the child or the part of the swab that has DNA on it.

Fact is you will never be satisfied with any answer any Freemason gives you.

reply to post by jaamaan

And I hope we were not curt with you. I was legitimately saying you should go to an event.

Originally posted by jaamaan
How do you call 'taking" some ones DNA in your book ?

A swab of cheek cells is taken, dropped into a sterile container and handed to the parents, all while they're present and watching. To actually process the DNA would take considerable time and cost, particularly if they had to do it for every person participating in the program. But the parent has the container with the swab. If the child goes missing, then and only then does the parent take that DNA sample to the police, have it analyzed so that there's something to compare against if they find evidence or human remains.

Originally posted by network dude
Suz, I will not post on this thread anymore and I hope the rest of my brethren follow me. You don't want a discussion, you want points. Trolling for spanish mackeral is much more fun, should you find yourself near the ocean. I am glad you are such a super parent and a super person. You should take pride in your amazing ability to pat yourself on the back. Most can't do that so well. Please feel free to stay as far away form a mason as you can. They are evil you know. And enjoy your cats.

I get an email and voila...replies from go figure MASONS lol

Yes, take your bretheren and their bretheren's keeper too. I don't NEED you (online shm*ck) to notify me that I am a good parent. I am not going to apologize for the fact that I am not one of the shmuck sheeple that would attend one of your cattle-tagging events.

When all your whining and 'whaling' (pun because he said Mackeral) fails you also call others a troll...how quaint. So sorry you could not publicly prove the point that your bagging and tagging system is of any use to the general public and only of use to whomever you passover such information to. Perhaps the grand Poo-Baah should have picked a better class of 'argumenteurs' (invented word for the fun of it because the word provacteur would define these goons as someone challenging).

You said: "Please feel free to stay as far away form a mason as you can" but, firstly it is FROM not form......and

I do steer clear of Masons, btw was that a threat??? I know you are all evil, you don't need to tell me thrice (so far in this thread as your bretheren have admitted). I guess they thought they were funny. I don't think they are, it is a means of airing their guilt perhaps.

If I had cats, I would also keep them away from Masons--they likely use them for rituals.

Nexxxxxt

Originally posted by suzque66
If our banking systems are predicted to fail (society and reality as we know it) and some group that YOU are not affiliated with (ie: The Goof Goons Bank of Jersey) comes along and promises to keep your life savings safe...would you hand them all of the cash hidden in your matress?

No it's like giving your money to the bank, the bank taking a picture of the bar code, and giving you back your money and the pictures while keeping nothing.

Originally posted by suzque66
How do you think people feel about their children?? People that pay attention to details and who assume the fear of a future scenerio of societal paranoia via tragedy is not enough to risk their future and the future of their offspring.

Originally posted by suzque66
Does this system of CHIP got any of these safeguards other than that i can look on some computerscreens and word of mouth that it is all ok."

What kind of safeguard do you want? The safeguard for the information is the parent. It's up to them how they store it.

Originally posted by suzque66
Do you honestly think that the top 1/5 *if not more, of your precious Masons give a crap about any of societies problems? lol

Shirely, you jest!! Time to cut the apron strings boys!!

You are definitely being the rude one around here. This is all your guessing and you are wrong.

reply to post by calmbutwary

 

Nothing is stopping you from doing that. The thing the EZ Child ID kit brings is that it's quick and easy. The CD it creates also uploads to the Amber Alert system. The kit costs though around $2800. You are the parent though, it's your decision.

Originally posted by suzque66
Thank God for the masons. Now we don't have to. We are safe knowing that in the future......their DNA will pop up for some unknown reason (perhaps by a routine traffic stop) and voila...they disappear into the night to be some geezer's new LIVER.

Yeah, you are definitely being paranoid.

Originally posted by suzque66
I have even less pity for those that cannot effectively choose between the unnecessary 'stuff' they accumulate by having two incomes instead of effectively having one productive parent at home present and accountable.

If living beyond your means would put your child's life or emotional stability in danger...by all means

Some people have to pay off those 'unnecessary' things like hospital bills, doctors bills, and don't have the luxury of a good job.

Originally posted by suzque66
Now these guys claim they know nothing about the 'actual' computer input/output side of the organization.

I never said I knew nothing of the computers.

As for the Shriner's thing, the guy scammed everybody...including the Shriner's themselves. It was a rogue action, not a group thing.