Why I became the REAL Pro-Choice...Pro-Eugenics

Let me start off by telling you a little about myself. Until recently, I was an ardent Pro-Life supporter, but I recently came to learn that Pro-Choice was better for all involved. It was hearing the arguments of the other side that made me realize my error. I am sure you know what they are... a woman should have control of her body, carrying an unwanted fetus for 9 months could be considered torture, the child and mother would both be better off in the long run, the child could become a financial burden to society, etc.

I have always viewed abortion as a form of murder. This may seem extreme to some, but in the end it became a positive attribute in my transition. Once I overcame the idea that it was wrong to "murder" your child, it was easy to realize the true benefits to letting go of this pro-life way of thinking. Now I was free of my own predjudices and able to find Eugenics.

I believe the best way to describe this is intra-family eugenics, meaning to only give the rights to the family of the individual that needs to be terminated for the good of the family and/or society.

Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.

Also, there are the handicapped and mentally ill individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

In addition there are the elderly and the sick...the cancer and heart patients, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. All of these people are a potential burden to the family and/or society.

Just think of the economic savings to our society if we just terminate these burdens to society instead of trying to cure them. For instance, imagine your elderly parents who have saved their whole lives. Why should a person allow that money be used up to keep them in a rest home, when we could just terminate their lives. Wouldnt they be just as happy dead as rotting away in an overpriced nursing home?

So I say now is the time to change the laws to give people a real freedom of choice so they can have the freedom they deserve and live their lives the way they wanted to, before the tradgedy of these burdensome people entered their lives. It leaves us with a better, more healthy, more wanted group of people with the desired genetics to pass to the future. I mean wouldnt you have killed a child Hitler if you had the chance?

I envision it as taking these people to the doctor. Having the doctor administer a drug to knock them out and then proceed to terminate them through lethal injection or poison gas. Its quick its painless and they are none the wiser.

I hope you all will join me in this personal crusade to make the world a better place.


[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

I think it's really great to see someone actually alter their opinion on this site. I know you had started a very awesome thread where some great discussion took place. You asked a number of questions and I could tell you were genuinely interested in the issues but also in what every member had to say in their posts.

I know many people will not always agree with you, or myself, and we will not (and have not, but have done so in a really awesome way) always agree with each other.

I guess I can't keep saying "Well these threads are pointless because nobody ever changes their mind," huh?




[edit on 5/20/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Wow, your views a a little askew friend.

I don't mean that insultingly, there are just a few things I want to clarify with you.

It IS wrong to murder your child, abortion is not murder.

Also, there are the handicapped individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

These people are the only gift from God there has ever been , how dare you call them burdends. You ask any real parent of a handicapped child if they think they are a burden and you will find that they love those children MORE because of what they are.

Those children show you what true love is, and show you the REAL side of humanity.

As far as your pro-choice stance goes, I commend you, it is a women's right to choose wether or not to abort a child, but it should have nothing to do with being a burden.

If you terminate your pregnancy simply because you don't want to be bothered to raise a child, then you have done so for the wrong reasons. That is a selfish way of thinking.

It should have everything to do with circumstance. Rape victims, crack heads and extremely young teens, those are the good reasons for abortion. The reasons you have given are a cop out.

I

Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.

I know people like that too, they are called cowards, and should never have been allowed to pro-create in the first place.

So I say now is the time to change the laws to give people a real freedom of choice so they can have the freedom they deserve and live their lives the way they wanted to, before the tradgedy of these burdensome people entered their lives. It leaves us with a better, more healthy, more wanted group of people. I mean wouldnt you have killed a child Hitler if you had the chance?

I envision it as taking these people to the doctor. Having the doctor administer a drug to knock them out and then proceed to terminate them through lethal injection or poison gas. Its quick its painless and they are none the wiser.

What are you saying, that's ridiculous. NO, because Hitler was a product of his environment, he wasn't born a racist, he was made one by society. And we don't have the luxury of simply keeping the people we "want" that sounds disturbingly like the same people we preach against here at ATS, the ones who want to wipe out humanity to mear Five Hundred million.

I have read alot of shocking things on ATS, but this...wow my friend, you really need to re-think what you have just posted. Especially your kill instead of cure ideas, I mean, ARE YOU SERIOUS!

I will tell people to visit this thread, not to support this idea, but to stand in awe at the sheer ammount of moral injustice.

~Keeper

Edit Spelling

[edit on 5/20/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Thank you for being so understanding. I really like that you and I can respectfully disagree. I must say you are one of the people I have to thank for showing me how my pro-life ways were hurting other people and limiting their life choices. Thanks!

so if someone is a problem in your eyes, the "solution" is to kill them?

interesting

would you be willing to take the first step and make the world a better place?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
so if someone is a problem in your eyes, the "solution" is to kill them?

interesting

would you be willing to take the first step and make the world a better place?

Well I guess if my family decides I am a burden to them then I guess I would have no choice. For instance, if I became an abusive alcoholic like my father, or I molested my own children like some animals, then I would understand if they decided they would be better off if I was terminated. I dont really like to call it murder anymore. That sounds so harsh.

reply to post by mostlyspoons


WHAT? how was that an off topic post? I was being completely serious.

If someone thinks we should start sending people off to die to "SAVE THE PLANET" then shouldnt they be willing to set an example by being the first to die? I think thats a pretty reasonable suggestion given the topic. I was merely trying to inject a sense of EMPATHY into the op as, clearly, they have none.

reply to post by mostlyspoons


Well I dont see why I should be the first to go. I am responsible, a good father, good worker, and overall contributor to society. I am saying that we should eliminate the burdens on families and society. I am not a burden to anyone. You must be a pro-lifer. I understand.

Also, I am sorry you had your post removed. I wasnt offended by it.

[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude



Also, there are the handicapped and mentally ill individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Yeah, these might be the same people who give their chihuahua more attention than their children (in the 1st place), and believe me these people exist. Evidently.

Every (decent) person I knew, who had mentally/handicapped people in their family loved them profoundly. I know I would.
And I guess that's my question. If you had a son, daughter, nephew, perhaps in a wheelchair, mentally ill, WHATEVER, you would actually consider ending their life, so (get this) you won't have the burden to take care of theM? WoW.

That's pretty shallow.


I do however agree with Pro-Choice. ( I guess in the circumstances as well).
I also respect the honesty in your writing, and of how you had a change heart and had some balls to step-up and tell people. True dat Ravens.

But dude, I don't know man......lil' wacky donchya think?

reply to post by Ben Niceknowinya


See we are a lot a like. We are both pro-choice. Maybe I want to allow a little more choice than you do, but is that wrong.

My best friend and his wife have an autistic child and he is a real burden to the family. He wont behave and all he will eat is Cheetos and Pepsi. It has to be Cheetos and Pepsi or he will flip. Like if you try to slip him a coke he will loose his mind. It is such a strain on my friends. I have shared this idea with my friend and he says if it became legal he would put the boy out of his misery.

Why should my friend and his wife be burdened with this for the rest of their lives. It is no different than forcing a woman to have a child she doesnt want. Neither one is fair.

[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Ya know, how about we extend this to people outside our families too? Jesus, think of the money we could save by emptying our prisons and state mental wards of lifers.

Although I disagree with your point about parents. They save their money, and it's their money. If they choose to spend it on a nursing home, it's theirs to spend in that fashion. Even if they run out, I think it's up to us as children to share in the cost. After all, they willingly gave us their money when they had us, why cant we return the favor.

Other than that, yea...I say screw it, offload the burden that you don't want, or need. I kinda feel the same way about welfare lifers too...get off the couch, be productive, or get under the dirt.

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Ya know, how about we extend this to people outside our families too? Jesus, think of the money we could save by emptying our prisons and state mental wards of lifers.

Although I disagree with your point about parents. They save their money, and it's their money. If they choose to spend it on a nursing home, it's theirs to spend in that fashion. Even if they run out, I think it's up to us as children to share in the cost. After all, they willingly gave us their money when they had us, why cant we return the favor.

Other than that, yea...I say screw it, offload the burden that you don't want, or need. I kinda feel the same way about welfare lifers too...get off the couch, be productive, or get under the dirt.

Thanks for understanding. I guess we coud consider doing it outside the family as long as it reduces the burden to society. It is probably ok to do that as long as we dont abuse it.

As far as parents go. They saved that money so they could give their children an inheritance, but the way things are now the hospitals and nursing homes take it all once your parents get sick and old. Then your parents are sad because they have nothing more to give you and so I think maybe some of them would be happier if we just terminated them and saved the inheritance. But I am not saying that is right or wrong. Its just a personal choice the family has to make.

[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Im not a pro-lifer or a pro-choicer. You seem to think your better than other people. Sure, your not a burden NOW... but what about 10 years from now? What if certain RACES or NATIONS are deemed to be "problem people"? You're thinking is narrow on this subject, and short-sighted.

The true problem is people who think they are better than others, when in reality, no matter what you think you've accomplished, your insignificant achievements, your success, the mouths you've brought into this world, all of it, means NOTHING. You are a worthless MEAT-SACK just like every human being in this world. I understand exactly what you are saying, and while it may seem PRACTICAL and LOGICAL and even REASONABLE to carry out what you are laying on the table, I'm concerned with the MORAL, ETHICAL, and HUMANE aspects of it. The chance for abuse is too great, and the required responsibility too much. Your concerns and opinions are valid to me, but your conclusion is way off. And while you might not think you should be the first to go, maybe someone in your family does? If so, too bad because you'll be whisked away to the DEATH CAMPS

[edit on 20-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]

I believe he is being sarcastic to make a point, flagged and starred.

Originally posted by mostlyspoons
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

Im not a pro-lifer or a pro-choicer. You seem to think your better than other people. Sure, your not a burden NOW... but what about 10 years from now? What if certain RACES or NATIONS are deemed to be "problem people"? You're thinking is narrow on this subject, and short-sighted.

The true problem is people who think they are better than others, when in reality, no matter what you think you've accomplished, your insignificant achievements, your success, the mouths you've brought into this world, all of it, means NOTHING. You are a worthless MEAT-SACK just like every human being in this world. I understand exactly what you are saying, and while it may seem PRACTICAL and LOGICAL and even REASONABLE to carry out what you are laying on the table, I'm concerned with the MORAL, ETHICAL, and HUMANE aspects of it. The chance for abuse is too great, and the required responsibility too much. Your concerns and opinions are valid to me, but your conclusion is way off. And while you might not think you should be the first to go, maybe someone in your family does? If so, too bad because you'll be whisked away to the DEATH CAMPS

[edit on 20-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]

I am not saying you have to terminate anyone. I am just for giving people the choice to free themselves from family members who have become a burden. I am sure you might change your mind if your child became mentally ill and began to wreck your marriage or destroy you financially. People didnt sign up for that when they decided to have a child. Also, dont misunderstand. It is not just children. Like if a husband is abusive then the mother and children could decide to terminate him. Also, the children could decide to terminate the parents for any number of reasons.

[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

This is essentially nature vs. nurture.

Humans are above nature. We will not stoop down to nature's level because we have the increasing capability (albeit gradual) to control and bend it to our will.

Why do we do it? Why do we continue bending (destroying) the environment?

Because we can. We have the ability to do so. And it's because this is our modern lifestyle that no other being on this planet can take away from us.

With eugenics, it is the bending of human laws (nurture) to that of nature (survival of the fittest).

Originally posted by Unregistered
This is essentially nature vs. nurture.

Humans are above nature. We will not stoop down to nature's level because we have the increasing capability (albeit gradual) to control and bend it to our will.

Why do we do it? Why do we continue bending (destroying) the environment?

Because we can. We have the ability to do so. And it's because this is our modern lifestyle that no other being on this planet can take away from us.

With eugenics, it is the bending of human laws (nurture) to that of nature (survival of the fittest).

Yes I agree. We have advanced past nature and so we now have the ability to take matters into our own control to make the world a better place.

Originally posted by Finalized
I believe he is being sarcastic to make a point, flagged and starred.

Lol.

Yep, I was under same impression.

If he is serious about it, it would be too harsh of the stance on the subject ...

Even though I'm a pro-choice guy, I would have to disagree on many points, respectfully, of course

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
It has to be Cheetos and Pepsi or he will flip. Like if you try to slip him a coke he will loose his mind.

Forgive me all, I'm currently on the meds which play lil' games with my mind, but, when I read that, I had this weird idea for Pepsi commercial ... I know, that so frickin' sick, I just hope his holiness Flying Spaghetti Monster will have mercy on my poor soul

reply to post by mostlyspoons


I understand that you are worried about the HUMANE aspects of this. I am too. That is why I propose that we use a process of giving them a shot to knock them out and then humanely dispose of them through lethal injection, poison gas, or maybe if the family is poorer we could just cremate the person once they are knocked out and help save on the cost of burial. That is all humane or they wouldnt do it to animals at the vet.