US: I was called a terrorist, and threatened...

reply to post by leira7


You're always labeled "anti-American" or a "terrorist" if you don't fully support EVERYTHING the government does. That includes the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, or if they decide to go into Iran (most likely Pakistan - get ready the saber-rattling has already started).

Who's the terrorist? The people who think up the ideas that we'd need a "New Pearl Harbor" in order to achieve a oil dominance in the Middle-East or the people that object to such ideas and voice their opinions that America shouldn't be in the Middle-East?

Ask the average Joe what he thinks and he's going to label you the terrorist, rather than the guy sitting in the Ivory Tower ordering more Boeing bombers to be built so that a country can be raised to the ground in order for his friends to make larger profits.

reply to post by leira7


When I hear cases like this one and yours.. I lose more and more hope in the U.S... the masses are essentially controlled by the media... its really scary... this is extremely close to what the German people went thru with NAZI Germany.. ironically many of the same tactics are being deployed... heck even the patriot act is modeled after Hitlers enabling act! crazy world we live in , and for us that see the world for how crazy it is... we get attacked because they think we are crazy to even be stating these crazy things!!

There is an unwritten rule that should be followed in this case:

"Never discuss religion or politics in a bar"

That being said, I think if you handle soomething like that a litle more nonchalant in the future you would have better results.

For example, nobody likes someone pushing their religion on them in the middle of the street. You could instead pose some questions like your really confused and inject some doubt into their train of thought to de-program them more slowly. For instance you could say something like...

'you know something, I remember pretty distinctly that they mentioned picking up some Israelies that day. But I don't remember hearing anything after that....wierd huh?'

or

'You know what bothered me? I watched them replay the planes hit the buildings over and over again. It seems peculior that the damage would make the buildings come straight down, rather then say the top slide off where it was hit...one of these days I'll have to look it up on the internet or something'

If you bombard people who are as sharp as a bowling ball with information, it makes them uncomfortable. However, if you are more subtle...you might get them to look for answers on their own

I appreciate the OP's courage in expressing his views and opinions when the majority of that bar was against him. When dealing with those kinds of people, especially ones you don't know, I've found its sometimes better to just nod along and listen with what they have to say and agree that it was a horrible situation. Then, you can just plant small seeds, such as "What surprised me was trade tower 7 and how it just fell since a plane didn't hit it and it only had a small fire." It might remind others about that instance and maybe make them look it up when they get home. All you can really do is plant seeds of thought, if they're meant to grow they will, if not there's not much you can do.

Edit: Sorry, I guess this idea is similar to the above post.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by cerberus00]

people who are close minded and dull are generally like this. Theyre first instinct is that you would be an enemy or communist because "god forbid" you the citizen actually think for yourself rather than let your brain turn to alchoholic mush like theirs obviously.

Small towns arent a good setting to be a modern thinker either. There are too many "lynch mob" mentalities who have grown up thinking that the only way to be patriotic is "not to question authority" When in fact this now broken country is founded on saying the F word to authority and then shooting them, hence englands dead and wounded in our fields.

Real Americans question the actions and beliefs of their neighbors and fervently seek the truth. But yet respect the perrsonal liberty for life and persuit of happiness, today the mind control, the manipulation, the military degradation programs developed by socialists and scientists working together like hitler, to invent a total takeover scenario which is happening today. These small towners are going to gett a rude awakening when they find they have no more liberty. And theyre fight was in vain because they should have deposed false intended power rather than shoot at a bunch of tunneling heroin junkies in vietnam. Not that there wasnt a need to stop the genocide, there was i agree.

People who cant believe there government is corrupt to me are part of the problem by therer own ignorance or apathy or so called disciplines. And when push comes to shove, they will get shoved and theyre big words will be muted by the ensuing chaos created artificially by rogues who sparked such future confrontations.

If your a socialist, a nazi, a neo nazi. America will not allow you life here for much longer. You are not wanted by the majority. This country stands for liberty, personal freedom and peace of mind. Not rabbel rousing childish behaviours by people who never grew up and have mental problems.

You act as if those people were suppose to believe you. Not every believes the whole inside-job theory. I can see why that marine got upset, He probably seen alot of his fellow soldiers get killed so yeah he might get upset. My point is not everyone is going to believe you and some will get mad at you.

P.S. To the comment "Never go to a redneck bar", I don't see how rednecks have anything to do with this

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Dark Jester]

People in this country don't want to hear the truth man.
In fact, stupidity has become a virtue.

Sorry that you were treated so poorly by our fellow citizens, but that's how Americans are now... they'd rather vote for a guy based on whether he'd be fun to have a beer with than whether he's smart and trustworthy.

Originally posted by SPreston

posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

Quite a few stars I see.....unfortunately, this post is the exact opposite of the bar you were in. Everyone here blindly accepts what you posted...well, except for me that is.

Pounding your personal religious beliefs into our heads again Swampfox?

Might work on those gullible fools in that bar; but you are wasting your time on us.

The herd mentality at work (quite a few stars for you, as well, SPreston). Nothing like attacking those with a vocalized faith to get the masses to love you it seems. Oh wait, I didn't notice anything particularly religious in Swamp's post. Must be a personal attack based on some previous contact.

Flame on.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

Quite a few stars I see.....unfortunately, this post is the exact opposite of the bar you were in. Everyone here blindly accepts what you posted...well, except for me that is.

What you are saying is a belief contrary to most people here, but the subject of this thread is not about the merit of the OP's belief, but rather freedom of speech, sheeple, the growing paranoia of terrorists, and the debate over when and where one should open up and speak their mind.

--

I am very used to quietly carrying with me my faith in God, especially around this site. I am not the least ashamed of it, and though it is easy to lose my credibility with many seemingly intelligent and friendly people the moment they think I believe in a Higher Personal Consciousness that runs the universe, I will bring it up when I feel it is appropriate. In that vein, to go to a bar, where your listeners are brainwashed and too close minded to actually consider your claims, is never a good idea, even if we live in the "Land of Liberty". It is a familiar and unfortunate experience. It can happen from both perspectives. Nothing says run like hell when a band of over-religious zealots start acting the same way as the folks in that bar!

All I can say is that I have learned that in some situations you just speak out a little, and let the conversation flow in whatever direction it will go, especially in bar where you have no obvious physical backup!

But kudos to you alyosha for having the guts to speak out anyway. Like another poster said, you may have planted a seed. Sometimes those that disagree with you the most actually go look for proof that you are wrong, and end up discovering that there may be some truth to what you said after all!

S&F

reply to post by Dark Jester


It's not that people don't believe the inside story that bothers us. It's the fact that the know only what they've seen on TV or heard other people tell them. Very few have ever looked up more information on the subject, yet when it comes up they're suddenly an expert at spotting terrorist or anti-American sentiment.

I completely understand why the Marine got upset. He's probably had many fellow Marines die for a cause that could be completely fraudulent. It's a hard pill to swallow when you sign up for the Armed Forces to counter-act terrorism, watch your friends die, then find out that the only reason you invaded a country, killed insurgents and maybe even civilians and all of a sudden you realize that the real reason all this occurred was so America could gain a stronger foot-hold in an oil-rich nation.

If I were the Marin, I'd be pissed. And if it were the first time I'd ever heard such sentiment, I'd probably be pissed at the person that was telling me about it. It's complete understandable.

My gripe is with the ignorance ... not the view. Educate yourself on the subject, then come back and we can engage in intelligent conversation ... not name calling and blind bullying like any 7th graded would do.

Originally posted by alyosha1981
I proceeded to tell him that I believe the tragedy of 9/11 was carried out by the government as a false flag operation.

......

"disturbing the peace" "leave now" So I did followed by verbal threats of violence and name calling at my back.

Well, if their peace is being disturbed, which it obviously was, then you were doing exactly that.

I know it's not popular here to say that, but it's the truth and she was in her right to say that.


If you continue what you're doing, I don't think the responses you get like in the bar will lessen. I think they will elevate in severity exponentially, until you find yourself in very bad situations.

You don't have to do things like this to still be courageous and righteous in your own life.

Why not try focusing on your own issues within, your own struggles, instead of the nation at large?


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[edit on 21-5-2009 by prevenge]

Directed at OP

It's a shame you had to go through that. Even worse that out of twenty other people, you were the only one who could even accept the possibility that the government were being deceitful about this "attack".

I know a lot of people are saying that Americans are brainwashed- One heavily starred response claimed 90% of your country believed the governments tale.

And perhaps a large portion of your population are firm believers in what they've been told by the media. But, the rest of the world doesn't see things the same way.

I, as a young man, am open to new ideas- I'm generally very open minded.
However- I was a little impressed that an uncle of mine believed 9/11 to be an inside operation. Having said that; he was in New York, working on a film when the planes hit the towers, and even having witnessed the attacks- He's a firm believer that it was by no means without the American governments consent.

My uncles belief was surprising, but even more surprising was that my grandmother's husband was of the same belief!

I guess my point is- Though it may seem bleak for your country now; it may always turn around.
At least you know, there's more sanity out there than you might have once believed!

Its hard to remember that people are sleepwalking out there and will continue to. At least you attempted to wake some up. But I gotta tell you. They are still not ready to be hit with the 9/11 truth stuff. I mean, that is basically how you introduced yourself to them. I find that if you get them engaged with the things they CAN handle (not much, I know) the conversation may eventually be steered in that direction. But a small town bar? Very unlikely.

Now, on the other hand, don't rule out bars if you do like to go for finding people of intellect and open-mindedness. I am a bartender at a hotel bar. Not even remotely a large city either. I had a guy in last night, very quiet, just drinking his beer with an occasional phone call to his girlfriend. I thought, typical driller or blue collar guy. Somehow we started talking politics and come to find out this guy is a wealth of historical knowledge. By last call, we were talking about the Bhagavadgita (sp) ! So you never know.

After the umpteenth situation akin to the OP's I rarely if ever disclose my views on religion or politics in a public setting. People seek the 'rally effect' which is what happened after 9/11. The herd gravitates to something they can all hate unanimously so they therefore feel together like brotherhood. It's a very sick, sick form of bonding. People don't see a problem with this. That we can all feel okay together because we can all hate these people so we're in the same boat. What happens when that enemy disappears? You must create a new one. TPTB know this. They know how incredibly fragile and stupid the populace is and they know that without a constant enemy people won't be able to actually bond over positive values so emphatically.

Take sports for example. What is modern day sports other than a (and I use this term very lightly indeed) evolved form of gladiator slaughter as it were in ancient Rome. It's another opiate for the masses. People choose which team to rally behind based on what school they attended or what city they live in and can become fanatical even violent if someone speaks ill of your team. It's a make believe game for crissakes! The outcome doesn't matter! People will bond over sports and their hatred of other teams because of the ease it takes to bond over negativity. You also don't think critically you think completely based on emotion whereas that rarely if ever holds any truth. Add in that when people get drunk the cerebrum shuts down which is the core of critical thinking and your cerebellum ramps up which controls your base responses such as fight or flight. Sports is a mini-example of why I see a problem with the human race. A microcosm of a much bigger problem and that is the glue that binds is wrought with negative thinking because it is so much easier to hate than it is to love or try to understand a point of view different than your own.

Ok I'll get off my soapbox now.

i haven't read all the posts here and i apologize.
to the OP, one thing i've learned over the years is that you really need to tread lightly and present your knowledge carefully to people when striking conversations about these "alt" topics.

they can be pulled off with a better reaction from the masses if you deliver it all a little more non-confrontational. (this is hard to explain)

too bad the people and bartender were so closed minded. it's hard to reach through to most, so i generally step lightly and feed them bit by bit, that way i'm not the evil person. they let themselves in inch by inch.

good job though for trying.

Originally posted by prevenge

Why not try focusing on your own issues within, your own struggles, instead of the nation at large?

Yes, and by doing so, maybe we can all just feel a state of blissful ignorance as our country invades Sudan for it's gold, China for it's rice and maybe even France for it's wine.

Great idea. Oh, did I already miss American Idol? Maybe I can still tune into Dancing with the Stars and indulge in that euphoric state mindlessness. Maybe I can even focus on myself and worry whether or not I should order some Xenedrine so that other's don't feel uncomfortable when they see how fat I am, or think about ordering some Enzyte so that my girlfriend isn't left unsatisfied. Because those are the really important things in this world.

reply to post by alyosha1981


Sorry friend, but you can't just come at people you don't know and be so blunt about your views on 911. I agree with a lot of these posters that you basically have to test the waters and ask mild questions first to see if any one agrees and is interested in discussing 911 any further.

From what I gather, you are alone in a bar and know no one there. So I assume you've never been there. You hear someone talk about 911 so you immediately bust in and start throwing the kitchen sink at them about the anomalies and coincidences of that day. How could you NOT think that this would result in an incident?

You have to take baby steps. I don't even discuss 911 with friends or family unless it is brought up in a conversation, then I just "plant seeds" as one poster suggested. There is a certain protocol for this type of stuff. If you go into a local bar, knowing no one, and offend someones sensibilities(especially the bartender!) no matter what the topic is, you're asking for trouble plain and simple.

I hope I don't come off sounding harsh it's just that you seem to not understand why this would occur.

BTW, this was a bar in Denver? I'm likely moving there in a month or two I'd like to know the name of it. Maybe we could even hang out for a drink(not at that bar of course).

It happened at a bar,

I wouldn't be too concerned.


cheers.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by prevenge

Why not try focusing on your own issues within, your own struggles, instead of the nation at large?

Yes, and by doing so, maybe we can all just feel a state of blissful ignorance as our country invades Sudan for it's gold, China for it's rice and maybe even France for it's wine.

Great idea. Oh, did I already miss American Idol? Maybe I can still tune into Dancing with the Stars and indulge in that euphoric state mindlessness. Maybe I can even focus on myself and worry whether or not I should order some Xenedrine so that other's don't feel uncomfortable when they see how fat I am, or think about ordering some Enzyte so that my girlfriend isn't left unsatisfied. Because those are the really important things in this world.

I appreciate your spirit, and what you're saying.
What I really mean is to completely go against those things like being mindlessly zoned like a sheep, but instead of being completely absorbed in yet another distraction like conspiracy theories that distract us from progress of developing our selves, we spend some serious time looking inward and improve our own behavior in relation to spiritual development.

Just saying, you can't really label American Idol a distraction from consciously perceiving reality.. unless you also label getting lost in the whole 9/11 thing as distracting. It's become it's own entertainment industry. I'm saying there are deeper issues to focus on before TSHTF... you better be ready spiritually when TSHTF, because you won't have time to say.. no .. wait.. i got distracted on 9/11 stuff.. give me another few years to get things right inside..

-
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Just after reading the first part about the bar scene indicates that there are soo many individuals out therein the global universe that are not open minded.. Mind you not that I agree with what eveyones saying but I tend to sit on the "fence" till I get the facts....... Some people don't see the fence or can't & don't want to put one foot up and grab the pole to even see if there is another side to anything... I think it's called "Blind Devotion".... regardless of any other factors within their lives..

reply to post by alyosha1981


Ignorance and Freedom are incompatible
Thomas Jefferson

While I'm sorry that you had to go though that, I think you should really think about about what took place in that bar. Their is a major change taking place not only in our country but all around the world. This is going to sound harsh but, the people that treated you and treated you that way in the bar are the enemy not the Government. They are not Americans. They are United States Citizens and their is a big difference.

I was once against the NWO and the Illuminati, but after some rational thinking, it has become quit clear that I was in error. This country has become an Obama Nation or Abomination. You are on the wrong side if your goal is to try an wake people up. If they don't see what going on, if they don't have enough brain cells to figure out that their Government has betrayed them, then they deserve what ever it is that the PTB are going to give them!

In a Democracy, the people get the government they deserve!!


[edit on 5/21/2009 by XcLuciFer]