41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11

It it blatant that it was staged, but this won't change anything. The majority of the population could never allow themselves to believe such a thing. It's a physical impossibility because to do so... well they would literally implode.

Originally posted by EvilAxis

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I can't help but wonder, are all of these people Political Activists with an axe to grind?

That one made me laugh. "I'm a Political Activist with an axe to grind... I'll join the 9/11 Truth Movement - that'll further my ambitions!"

Presumably that's what French academic Aymeric Chauprade was thinking a few weeks ago when he outlined the theory that 9/11 was an “American-Israeli conspiracy” in a book about world political crises. The French Ministry of Defence sacked him for it: www.youtube.com...

Did this 9/11 Merrill Lynch eyewitness recently find a political axe to grind?

Full Interview

Ha... wow this David Long fella sounds and acts like an idiot, like he's actually playing a character in a cheap comedy flick about this clueless shmuck who accidentally makes his way safely thru calamity and danger. Some of the stuff he says just makes me laugh. This interview is classic. Truth Action Ottawa was grasping at straws with this guy.

Not sayin he discredits the movement, im just taking the time to talk like a jerk... carry on. but watch the vid, funny stuff.

It's a matter a personal perception, isn't it kidney thief? To me you sound like a bit of a jerk whereas he sounds like an honest, intelligent gentleman eloquently relating the shock and confusion of the day and several anomalies which made a strong impression upon him.

I'm not saying you are a jerk - that's just my subjective reaction to the way you express yourself. Shall we return to the topic and quit insulting each other and those whose message we don't wish to hear?



[edit on 21-5-2009 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by drwizardphd


Excellent point. This isn't a right versus left issue.

No matter how wishy washy and finger pointing some liberals are (I get called liberal all the time - and even tough one particular view alone can't make you liberal or conservative - I am not).

This is about people being abused, lied to, controlled and manipulated by TPTB. The whole story can be tracked as far back as the early 1970's (see here www.historycommons.org... ).

Somethign like this was always waiting to happen with the concept of the UN and thus NWO existed.

Those who do 'dissent' are bullied into believing that somehow they aren't patriotic, or branded as such for everyone else to get at them.

...you know as if it were your duty as an American to allow your government to kill your own countrymen.

I just didn't know where to post my outrage!

I am listening to Cheney sit on National Television using 9/11 as a damned prop in his pitiful argument to justify his love for torture. I hate this govt!

Originally posted by EvilAxis
It's a matter a personal perception, isn't it kidney thief? To me you sound like a bit of a jerk whereas he sounds like an honest, intelligent gentleman eloquently relating the shock and confusion of the day and several anomalies which made a strong impression upon him.

I'm not saying you are a jerk - that's just my subjective reaction to the way you express yourself. Shall we return to the topic and quit insulting each other and those whose message we don't wish to hear?


Edited to ask: Eloquent???? there wasnt a single eloquent sentence in that interview. The last quote he said made me laugh the hardest... doubly so when you claim he is eloquent.
[edit on 21-5-2009 by EvilAxis]

your perception is spot on, my friend, hence that is why i said i was taking the time to talk like a jerk, and point out that i found the interview hilarious.

Back to the thread though, to me, like all of you, i find it highly important to question everything that we are told, especially about 9/11. This list will prove to be interesting once these people's individual messages are taken more seriously by those who either dont care or think about 911, or just accept the story.
There was a lady who is uing the BUsh administration for their lack of preparedness for the strike against the pentagon, because i believe she lost a daughter in the accident if i recall? I am curious where she would fit in with this list

[edit on 21-5-2009 by kidney thief]

Originally posted by king9072
Honestly, there is nothing I wait for with more anticipation than the day that the entire thing is blown wide open and it becomes common knowledge that the government did this.

Then, every ignorant fool on this forum who whole-heartedly touted the official story and argued it to the death should be banned because they must be absolutely brain dead.

It takes common sense to have common knowledge.

The real conspiracy is the education system.

The average American couldn't even consider the possibility of the important adult leaders doing anything like this.

This happened more than 7 years ago...

They won...it worked...we really are that stupid and naive...

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Jezus]

Originally posted by Jezus
They won...it worked...we really are that stupid and naive...

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

People here have and are showing that it WON'T go away...we won't let it.

41 highly educated and professional people are standing tall against the tragic deception of not just the U.S. but the whole world.

Tommorrow...42, and the day after that...43, etc, etc....

Don't accept the passive and easy stance, don't roll over and be content to have your belly tickled..speak out for what you believe.

Like you say, education IS the key, be a teacher and help switch on the light, open the door and help others guide themselves along the path.

I still talk about 9/11 to friends, family and even strangers on occasion and usually end up walking away knowing I have helped them question the events of that day. I never tell them "that's what happened" or "because I say so" but offer them new perspectives to learn for themselves (often pointing them to the ATS 9/11 forum). The hardest thing to deal with though is the apathy...it's a real downer when someone just doesn't care. All part and parcel of living in a world where looking after yourself is all some folks can think about. "I'm alright jack"!

Won't stop me trying to convince someone how important the matter IS....not WAS.

Strength in numbers...."one of US".

How exhuasting.

Honestly I do not accept the "official story" as given truth, but it's hard to find merit in the "truthers" perspective when every time I open one of these threads any and all polite questioning of the idea that 9-11 was an inside job is met with name calling and general BS.

Can someone give me simple, logical facts that can be examined that support the "inside job" theorey? ...without the defensiveness and wacked out responses?

Just offer up two or threee concise scientific/factual items that truthers feel makes the case.

Simply saying it was an inside job does not make it so.

Yes our government is capable of cover-ups and attrocities...that does not mean that 9-11 is the same.

I personally know a couple of "average joe's" that witnessed the impacts...so the whole idea that planes never collided with the towers to me seems crazy far-fetched.

Please ...someone offer me some genuine, not easily debunked, evidence supporting the claim.

If you "feel" it was an inside job then Kudo's to you. You "might" be right, but if you are going to claim it as truth...prove it. I am open to evidence.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by maybereal11
simple, logical facts that can be examined

Originally posted by maybereal11
Just offer up two or threee concise

Not everything is like television or a movie.

Not everything can be boiled down to a simple concise explanation...

You have to do some science, some math, some analyzing, some critical thinking in order to understand the official story is a physical impossibility.

Americans want everything pre-packaged and handed to them...

"well some Arabs did it, the fuel melted the beams, and stuff happened, and then it did a perfect pancake collapse on itself into a pile of rubble...also another near by building did the same thing...also two other airplanes crashed, trust us even though we don't have any pictures"

Use some common sense to see the official story is riddled with contradictions and anomalies...

After that use physics to understand the collapse of the three world trade center buildings could not possibly have happened under the official story conditions...

The truth is easy to find if you want to find it.

Originally posted by maybereal11
every time I open one of these threads any and all polite questioning of the idea that 9-11 was an inside job is met with name calling and general BS.

no it's not, I think you may have your wires crossed. Did you mean "wasn't" an inside job?

I am open to evidence.

Here you go.. ATS 9/11 Forum....or were you expecting someone to do your homework for you?

I hope you learn something useful in there that may help you in your pursuit of truth.

reply to post by nerbot


reply to post by Jezus



Niether of you offered me a single clearly articulated argument or scientific fact to consider.

I did however recieve the insult of "not everything is a movie" and "Americans want everything packaged for them" etc etc.

I have looked at the 9-11 truth forums before and like I explained it is exhuasting to sort through the piles of conviction without clear evidence.

Trust your gut...use common sense..etc. etc. I prefer the truth supported by facts that can be examined for their validity.

Let's try this...for anyone wholeheartedly convinced this was an "inside job" ...give me one factual piece of evidence that you feel is the strongest supporting the argument...not a collection of opinions and insults.

I am open-minded...

Originally posted by maybereal11
I did however recieve the insult of "not everything is a movie" and "Americans want everything packaged for them" etc etc.

Originally posted by maybereal11
give me one factual piece of evidence

How is it an insult when you continue to look for a short cut to understand something complex...

Again...that isn't how science works...one "piece" of evidence doesn't prove anything...you have to look at the science within the details and put it together to make the picture whole.

This has everything you need if you are open minded and capable of critical thinking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"vertical beams" is the best "piece" of evidence that reveals how the official story is a physical impossibility...

But they also admitted it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

"While NIST did not find evidence that any of the recovered core columns experienced temperatures in excess of 250 C, it is not possible to extrapolate from such a small sample size to state that none of the core columns on the fire affected floors reached temperatures in excess of 250C."

There is no evidence for the official story...

Originally posted by maybereal11

Niether of you offered me a single clearly articulated argument or scientific fact to consider.

That's why I pointed you to the 9/11 forums.

I did however recieve the insult of "not everything is a movie" and "Americans want everything packaged for them" etc etc.

Try not to be so sensitive. They were more like personal statements by Jezus than direct insults to you.

I have looked at the 9-11 truth forums before and like I explained it is exhuasting to sort through the piles of conviction without clear evidence.

"either way"....right? And yes it IS exhausting, but truth can have a high price sometimes.

Trust your gut...use common sense..etc. etc. I prefer the truth supported by facts that can be examined for their validity.

Like the "NIST" report?

Let's try this...for anyone wholeheartedly convinced this was an "inside job" ...give me one factual piece of evidence that you feel is the strongest supporting the argument...not a collection of opinions and insults.

errr.....the "NIST" report. It's nicely packaged and reads like a movie script but full of holes.

I am open-minded...

I don't think you are.

I think you just like arguing.....sorry to dissapoint.

If you want answers, read through the 9/11 forums, or better still...READ THE OPENING ARTICLE PROPERLY (and the accompanying article by 100 proffessors). The opinions of those people says a lot, and this thread was started to inform members about THEM...not to discuss things like explosions, planes and who did what and when.

I urge you to revisit the 9/11 forums with a more open mind.

Originally posted by Jezus

"vertical beams" is the best "piece" of evidence that reveals how the official story is a physical impossibility...

But they also admitted it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

"While NIST did not find evidence that any of the recovered core columns experienced temperatures in excess of 250 C, it is not possible to extrapolate from such a small sample size to state that none of the core columns on the fire affected floors reached temperatures in excess of 250C."

There is no evidence for the official story...

THANK YOU. Okay .. so what we have here if I am reading properly is that the NIST did not find from their samples any of the core beams that exceeded 250 C in temperature.

So this tells us two things...they did not "prove" that the beams collapsed in keeping with the official story, but rather assumed that since they were working with samples that the beams that reached that temperature were destroyed or not among the samples.

This doesn't neccessarily speak to an "inside job" but it does point out a weakness in the proposed series of events...though it doesn't disprove them. Is it not possible that the beams that reached this temperature simply were not sampled or not availbale to be sampled becuase they were destroyed?...as they suggested? They may not have completely proved their theorey..but it doesn't prove controlled demolition either...

They didn't test for explosives...this I don't like. In investigating a terrorist attack they should have considered all possibilities, for example that there was a combined attack of pre-planted explosives paired with the impact of the airplanes to create the most damage. They should have tested for explosives as a matter of practice rather than assume they understood how things happened.

The fact that they admitted these items rather than fabricate evidence to support the theorey doesn't really convince me that they are participating in a conspiracy.

They could just be a sloppy, lazy government agency?

My personal feelings are that if there is information to be released to the public that proves/shows that part/all of 9/11 didn't happen as initially reported, Obama won't let it be known until AFTER he's finished the war in Afganistan. How could he possibly say that 9/11 was (whole or in part) fabricated or even slightly exaggerated while still defending his need for another $80B to continue fighting? Without 9/11, WHY THE HELL ARE WE EVEN THERE???? Remember, Obama claims we simply invaded the wrong country, therefore we needed to correct our mistake and go after the REAL THREAT...Afganistan!!

Further, the only other way I think he would allow it to come out would be if any or all of the following takes place:

1. The people who put him in office finally figure out they were duped and releasing the 9/11 info would put him in a "wow....he told us this....he must REALLY be on the people's side if he told us THIS....maybe we should trust him...." This may be used to end a revolt or if the masses suddenly start calling for him to be ousted from office.

2. If there's a chance he won't get re-elected. Imagine him running his re-election campaign with "I had no idea, but now I do and the AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW...

3. He has to suddenly pull the military out of Afganistan and bring them all back home. If those that think martial law will be imposed he's going to need those troops back here. This is assuming that the war in Afganistan will be similar to the one in Iraq. He can't afford to wait 6 years...and he can't/won't declare defeat. So pulling them out based on "the realization that the Bush Administration (CIA, etc.) may have in fact exaggerated or fabricated information relating to the tragic events of September 11th..."

I can hear the speech he'd make already...can you?

Originally posted by maybereal11

Honestly I do not accept the "official story" as given truth, but it's hard to find merit in the "truthers" perspective when every time I open one of these threads any and all polite questioning of the idea that 9-11 was an inside job is met with name calling and general BS.

Can someone give me simple, logical facts that can be examined that support the "inside job" theorey? ...without the defensiveness and wacked out responses?

Just offer up two or threee concise scientific/factual items that truthers feel makes the case.

Simply saying it was an inside job does not make it so.

Yes our government is capable of cover-ups and attrocities...that does not mean that 9-11 is the same.

I myself don't fully accept the so-called official story in it's entirety. But it has been demonstrated with massive amounts of documentation and visuals that the US was attacked by foreign nationals.

The largest questions that remain, for me, are who in US intelligence and the admin was aware this was coming down the pike and why was there little co-ordination of information in advance.

Truthers have focused on a supposed controlled demolition to the WTC buildings as the way they entirely collapsed leaves some questions. But I'd say these have been satisfactorily answered by investigations of the evidence by many not only in the US and elsewhere.

Sadly I think it's impossible to discuss the still outstanding concerns on 9/11 as it has become so politicized on forums like this.

It has been reduced to whether one believes the US government as a single entity or not. Those who accept there was an unprovoked attack become some kind of persecuted minority in these surrounds.

This lack of objectivity only contributes to many questions remaining unexplored.


Mike

reply to post by nerbot


yes but that doesnt change the fact, that nothing of the fact will change. people are in denial always will be even when they are dying from swine flu sticking their fists at God when it is people that made it

reply to post by maybereal11


Here's a fact that is simple and concise for you. After I explain this simple fact, any logical, critical thinking human being can only come to the conclusion that 911 HAD to have been an inside job. I also might add that the term "inside job" does not mean every single "conspiracy theory" is true or that the whole US government was in on it. Inside job simple means that certain elements inside the goverment knew it was coming and let it happen or actually had a finger in making it happened. Either way implies inside job.

The fact that the Bush administration did everything in their power to NOT have an investigation. Also the fact that when the investigation was on going, Bush and Cheney agreed to testify BUT not under oath and behind close doors. What should your mind to telling you at this point????

If your mind doesn't come to the conclusion that they obviously have something to hide, I don't no what else to say. If you have something to hide that means there's something they want to cover up. What else could it be? And don't give me that national security agruement BS. If it was a clear cut case that 19 arabs basically acted alone, why would Bush and Cheney be all secretive about this? Anyway, if they are covering up something you have to come to the conclusion of inside job, period.

They have the power, we don't. You have to assume power is guilty when they cover up something especially in their own investigation.

All the talk about buildings being demolished and all that is great but it's the simple things that are really going to matter.

Behind line, it's an inside job until a full independent investigation gets on the way.

The reason people can have different perspectives on the above post is because of...

Originally posted by Hemoglobin
yes but that doesnt change the fact, that nothing of the fact will change. people are in denial always will be

DENIAL

People use their own personal speculation based on assumptions in order to rationalize the evidence into something more emotionally and mentally acceptable. The government's approval of this denial makes is very easy.

Speculation + Assumptions + Rationalizations = Denial

People are really good at denial, especially when the circumstances are so disconnected that they don't really care. Because in all honestly as long as we still have Walmart and McDonalds no one really cares that thousands of Americans were murdered for power and money.



[edit on 22-5-2009 by Jezus]