Postal workers in BNP leaflet row

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by blupblup

 

We got one of their promos delivered at work today, like you say they are racist, I'd call them haters, they are the haters and they make me scared. These people are everywhere in UK.

Yep they are mate... truly worrying that people buy into their BS and propaganda.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
We got one of their promos delivered at work today, like you say they are racist, I'd call them haters, they are the haters and they make me scared. These people are everywhere in UK.

When you say work, do you mean you're a postal worker or was it just shown at your workplace? If it is shown at your workplace i must ask how that is legal! Isn't that again employment rules?

Forgive me for the questions.

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
So you believe the native stock of Britain MUST cooperate in their dispossession by alien imports from the Commonwealth?

Alien imports?

Invited Aliens would sound alot better!

BNP are the only sensible party in UK. Labour are corrupt and the Tories are as useless as the GOP in America - they are both bought-and-paid by Big Business and Big Welfare.

So who bought-and-supports BNP? Last time i checked they were being bought by stockbrokers and 'fat cats' in london.

Anglo-Saxons deserve a homeland: England and the rest of the world can go rot!

If you are soo bothered about you're little Ang-Sax background, you should try and make you're Ang-Sax fellas work abit harder rather than free loadin and breeding like rats.Don't blame the 'aliens' who work hard and get the most out the education system this country provides.

I only just saw this post, sorry for the late reply but i found it so funny i just had to take a shot.

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
So you believe the native stock of Britain MUST cooperate in their dispossession by alien imports from the Commonwealth?

Native stock? LMAO! Do you think you are just based from people in England, Wales and Scotland? Don't you understand we've been invaded by the French, Romans and others? You're about as native as Japanese Knotweed. It is utter nonsense you are spouting.

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
BNP are the only sensible party in UK. Labour are corrupt and the Tories are as useless as the GOP in America - they are both bought-and-paid by Big Business and Big Welfare.

Anglo-Saxons deserve a homeland: England and the rest of the world can go rot!

Anglo-Saxons? Maybe we should invade France then? I mean we're part French! Or Italy! I'd prefer Italy i must admit. Point is you have no idea what you are talking about. The NHS would have failed years ago if it weren't for immigrants, as would many farms.

You know what i find amazing? When the major influx of Asian people happened in the UK they were treated like rubbish. They got their kids into education, drilled it into them that education waskey and got them into good professions. Whereas the chavvy scum standing around on the streets is mostly white and contributes nothing to society other than crime, being a drain on benefits and large quantities of methane each time they burp after drinking large quantities of white lightning cider.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Seemingly those nice white smiley faces on the BNP leaflet are stock images.
see here for details

do these look familiar?

"But in a magnificent irony, the photos of supposed BNP voters are actually stolen straight off a stock photo website and many of the so-called BNP supporters are … wait for it … foreigners. "
from here




[edit on 22-5-2009 by afgang]

reply to post by afgang


LMAO! Now that's just a classic, starred.

Originally posted by AR154
I disagree, it is to do with impartiality. Too many people are "offended", too many things "offensive". We need to start moving away from that. If someone doesn't like a certain political party, then you don't vote for them, you have that freedom. Denying material that advocates a party you oppose...isn't that worse? Sounds a bit selective.

In no way will I be voting or supporting the BNP. However, I seem to be one of the very few left who see that people can have the freedom to believe what they want, freedom in voting, resist thought policing. I see that everyone is free to read what they want, and make their decisions after. Yes, I took the BNP leaflet in from under my letter box and read it, like I have all of the many leaflets/pages that have been delivered to my door recently. I didn't feign 'offense' and throw a hissy fit, I accepted it as a party that exists because a certain proportion of the people are willing to vote for it.

That's what it's all about, anything other is just thought control.

I second that giving one political party the right over another just because one is Nationalist is bang out of order.
People need to understand we aren't in the days of the National Front and hooligan BNP-esqueness. 90% of BNP are ordinary British Citizens sick of being treated with disdain by our political masters.

People need to understand we aren't in the days of the National Front and hooligan BNP-esqueness. 90% of BNP are ordinary British Citizens sick of being treated with disdain by our political masters.

The BNP are a nasty bunch of racists for sure but they are onto a winner in Britains climate today. The BNP are guaranteed a support base in the declining industrial centres of Britain. Industry is moving out to Asia and locals have lost their jobs big style, at the same time there has been a massive wave of immigrants from Asia settling in these very places of decline. The two don't go hand in hand and locals who see their traditional jobs disappearing and traditional cultures being changed so fast are going to buy into the BNP for sure.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Native stock? LMAO! Do you think you are just based from people in England, Wales and Scotland? Don't you understand we've been invaded by the French, Romans and others? You're about as native as Japanese Knotweed. It is utter nonsense you are spouting.

What utter nonsense. Do you think that, because a country has a history, that the indigenous population is somehow invalid?

Of course Britain has native stock. I've seen genetic studies that suggest that upwards of 60% of Britons share an ancestry with the pre-Celtic Britons; population migrations are never quite what you think, and normally just involve a ruling class.

So don't give me this whole "you aren't native" argument, because if someone has lived in a country all their life and identifies with the national identity and culture, they are native.

Oh, and for your history knowledge:

Normans, not French, conquered England. They were vassals of the king of France, but were not Frenchmen themselves. And less than 10,000 of them managed it, so I can't imagine they had much of an impact on a country that had at least a million people in it, genetics-wise.

This bit from the almighty Wikipedia should explain:

The fiefdom of Normandy was created for the Viking leader Rollo (also known as Robert of Normandy). Rollo had besieged Paris but in 911 entered vassalage to the king of the West Franks Charles the Simple through the Treaty of Saint Clair-sur-Epte. In exchange for his homage and fealty, Rollo legally gained the territory which he and his Viking allies had previously conquered. The name "Normandy" reflects Rollo's Viking (i.e. "Northman") origins.

Also, the Roman Occupation of Britain was just that; occupation. There were veteran colonists and soldiers from across the empire were stationed here and no doubt interbred with the locals, but not in significant numbers (for example, Boudica was defeated by 10,000 Romans under Seutonius, and there are the quite-famous 5000 Sarmatian horsemen who form the backbone of the King Arthur story) when you are talking about the population of an entire country.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Anglo-Saxons? Maybe we should invade France then? I mean we're part French!

Yes, Anglo-Saxons, the migrated German tribes that gave England it's very name. We are not part French, as I have explained above; we aren't even really part Norman, unless you are a descendant of the aristocracy.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Point is you have no idea what you are talking about.

Pot, kettle, black.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984The NHS would have failed years ago if it weren't for immigrants, as would many farms.

Speculation.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984You know what i find amazing? When the major influx of Asian people happened in the UK they were treated like rubbish. They got their kids into education, drilled it into them that education waskey and got them into good professions. Whereas the chavvy scum standing around on the streets is mostly white and contributes nothing to society other than crime, being a drain on benefits and large quantities of methane each time they burp after drinking large quantities of white lightning cider.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Yes, this is what happened under Labour. You'll notice that "chav" did not exist under the Tory governments.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Not all BNP voters are racist. Some i'm afraid are ignorant of the party. They honestly believe they are just looking out for britain.

Which is why its important to explain where the party came from, particularly the politics of its founder - as I set out earlier in the thread.

You are spot on with your observation IR.

The BNP tries to play on several things, but you can call a cancer by many different names and it still remains one, and the core root of the party is one of bigotry.

And thats the very key to this issue, because the posties were getting flack for delivering the stuff the BNP posted out - and there is a reason why people were objecting to it, and it was nothing to do with fiscal policy, or transport....

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
What utter nonsense. Do you think that, because a country has a history, that the indigenous population is somehow invalid?

Of course Britain has native stock. I've seen genetic studies that suggest that upwards of 60% of Britons share an ancestry with the pre-Celtic Britons; population migrations are never quite what you think, and normally just involve a ruling class.

If you are really going to talk about a native populous then I have also seen genetic studies of britons and it seems up to 80% have "foreign" DNA, by that i mean non celtic. So by that measure wouldn't it make everyone slightly foreign? Hey my dad is from Southern Ireland. He came here and worked his arse off his entire life. You've probably been in buildings he helped build, he's never been out of work, paid all taxes etc. Isn't that a great kind of immigrant? Why aren't we happy to have such people here?

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
So don't give me this whole "you aren't native" argument, because if someone has lived in a country all their life and identifies with the national identity and culture, they are native.

No they're not, at least not according to the dictionary:

"characteristic of or existing by virtue of geographic origin; "the native North American sugar maple"; "many native artists studied abroad""


However what is more British than going out on a Saturday, having a pint and a curry! Yet curry obviously isn't native. We really are a mongrol dog of a country.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Oh, and for your history knowledge:

Normans, not French, conquered England. They were vassals of the king of France, but were not Frenchmen themselves. And less than 10,000 of them managed it, so I can't imagine they had much of an impact on a country that had at least a million people in it, genetics-wise.

This bit from the almighty Wikipedia should explain:

The fiefdom of Normandy was created for the Viking leader Rollo (also known as Robert of Normandy). Rollo had besieged Paris but in 911 entered vassalage to the king of the West Franks Charles the Simple through the Treaty of Saint Clair-sur-Epte. In exchange for his homage and fealty, Rollo legally gained the territory which he and his Viking allies had previously conquered. The name "Normandy" reflects Rollo's Viking (i.e. "Northman") origins.

Hang on a second, they were from France no? They settled in France, slept with French men and women. They were living in Normandy for centuries before they headed out to Britain, so yes in my humble view they were French. Genetically maybe not completely but it's the same as when someone from India moves here and has kids, those kids are born in England and therefore English. They are not native English of course.

I think a line needs to be drawn to show whether we are talking native English or English by virtue of where you live. I don't accept that simply accepting culture makes you native to that country, at least not by the dictionary definition.

I am well aware of the history, i guess we just have different interpretations.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Also, the Roman Occupation of Britain was just that; occupation. There were veteran colonists and soldiers from across the empire were stationed here and no doubt interbred with the locals, but not in significant numbers (for example, Boudica was defeated by 10,000 Romans under Seutonius, and there are the quite-famous 5000 Sarmatian horsemen who form the backbone of the King Arthur story) when you are talking about the population of an entire country.

Problem you are having is that once a gene is introduced it tends to spread out in the population. After hundreds of years, that gene is going to be very widespread. If we use your number of 60% of people that can be traced back to the celts, i would point out they are not 100% celtic. They have some foreign DNA in them and therefore are not totally native. Look i'm all up for controlling imigration, putting a limit on the number of people that can come in each year, that is sensible. What i am not for is stopping people coming in because they are not native.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Yes, Anglo-Saxons, the migrated German tribes that gave England it's very name. We are not part French, as I have explained above; we aren't even really part Norman, unless you are a descendant of the aristocracy.

Well we'll agree to disagree here. They were living in France for hundreds of years before heading out to England to invade it. That in my book makes them French. Not native French of course

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Pot, kettle, black.

Not at all but continue if you wish.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984The NHS would have failed years ago if it weren't for immigrants, as would many farms.

Speculation.

Actually no it isn't. I'm sure you are well aware that in the 70's and 80's the government went out to places like India and offered doctors money and training if they would come to England. At the time we were running very low on trained professionals. Nurses also are actively recruited from abroad because we just wouldn't have the numbers without them. So yes the NHS would have collapsed without doctors and nurses coming to England to prop it up. There was even a massive push around 5 years ago to encourage people into the medical profession because many of the doctors who had come here were approaching retirement age and the government was concerned of running low.

Ahh but maybe they recruited people from abroad for no reason huh.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Yes, this is what happened under Labour. You'll notice that "chav" did not exist under the Tory governments.

The word chav didn't, the people did. They were less common absolutely. However i don't think it's the governments fault, chavs are international and just called by different names. I'm not a Labour supporter though and their benefit system needs revision.

Unforchanly as a Englishman there are no other parties to vote for, every other party has it's hands in the public pocket

I'm voting for BNP becuase I'm fed up of all the crap, stuff peoples feelings, no one ever cared about me except my mother and closest friends (we would die for each other), Personally assylum seekers are cowards, too scared to save their own country, anyone who runs is a coward and isn't worth licking the dirt off my boots, I would never run from a threat. No matter what. Cowardice offends me to no end and don't try that "what if it was you" bullcrap, i'm stronger than that.

Sorry but unless your English, butt out, this isn't to do with you, you haven't had to live with CCTV in every corner, having to keep your mouth shut incase you offend some crappy little retard living off your hard earned money, I know ethinics have a hard time but really, what the hell did they come here for if they though it was going to be easy. It's not like were putting them in gas chambers, were just telling them to get lost.

England isn't the land of oppertunity like America, it's war with every law official on this tiny island, knowing how to survive and how to create a shelter from the psychos.

Thats why I'm voting BNP, don't be such a bunch of brainwashed hippies. Life is hard, sometimes you have to make difficult disitions, and we have to look after our own before we look after others.

I think its a bit extreme to be offended by a leaflet, unless people have specifically wrote to the BNP and asked not to recieve information.

If you'd be offended anyway you just need to remember the BNP will never be in power, ever.

They may gain a few seats now because of the whole MP Expensenses scam but they will never be our government.

Thats pretty much fact tbh, although maybe in a few hundred years if everything goes tits up.

Originally posted by Concept X
I think its a bit extreme to be offended by a leaflet,

I personally have the feeling that it was a case of the postworkers union (major Labour funders) being afraid that they may lose some votes to the BNP in the upcoming elections and trying to deny them publicity by getting their members to stop the distribution rather than the majority of the workers being offended.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
If you are really going to talk about a native populous then I have also seen genetic studies of britons and it seems up to 80% have "foreign" DNA, by that i mean non celtic.

Oh dear, the amateur's mistake of assuming the Celts were an ethnic group, and not the more-likely cultural phenomenon. I should imagine they are "non-Celtic" as the Keltoi were a German tribe on the move; the fact we term these people "Celts" is only from a few mentions in ancient sources, and came to be a blanket term that the Greeks and Romans used for all the barbarians north of themselves.

So yes, they will indeed be non-Celtic as "Celtic" is really a fashion which dispersed widely across Europe with migrating Iron Age tribes.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984So by that measure wouldn't it make everyone slightly foreign? Hey my dad is from Southern Ireland. He came here and worked his arse off his entire life. You've probably been in buildings he helped build, he's never been out of work, paid all taxes etc. Isn't that a great kind of immigrant? Why aren't we happy to have such people here?

Don't be daft; after a few generations, immigrants are usually assimilated into the native population enough so that, culturally, you can't tell the difference. To be honest, this is all I'm really concerned about; genetics is moot as I'm not attempting to create some kind of Aryan master race.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984No they're not, at least not according to the dictionary:

"characteristic of or existing by virtue of geographic origin; "the native North American sugar maple"; "many native artists studied abroad""

Just how exactly does that differ from my definition? Did you actually read my statement? Here it is again, with bolding to show what parts you should pay most attention to:

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
So don't give me this whole "you aren't native" argument, because if someone has lived in a country all their life and identifies with the national identity and culture , they are native.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984However what is more British than going out on a Saturday, having a pint and a curry! Yet curry obviously isn't native. We really are a mongrol dog of a country.

Of course, this is what I am really talking about. We are indeed a mongrel of a nation, however every single nation is, and very few can say that they have not been successfully invaded in almost a thousand years. Not even the Romans made it that far.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Hang on a second, they were from France no?

No. This is the crux of your mistake; France was not France as we know it today. Brittany, Normandy and the Low Countries were not France. The French king gave Normandy away because he couldn't defend it, hell, he could barely defend Paris, and so the Duchy of Normandy was created.

It's ruler, the Duke of Normandy, was a vassal of the king of France; this means he was basically his Israel to the French King's America. This is why the King of France did not become the King of England after the Norman Conquest, the Duke of Normandy did.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984I think a line needs to be drawn to show whether we are talking native English or English by virtue of where you live. I don't accept that simply accepting culture makes you native to that country, at least not by the dictionary definition.

Yes, "native English", if you mean of Anglo-Saxon descent, is probably a very unlikely thing, as it doesn't even look like all the Angles and Saxons came over, it just looks like an army of them were invited, then rebelled. So, as I have said from the start, I am only concerned with someone who considers themselves culturally English, as there has been far too much interbreeding between the Irish, Welsh and Scots, not to mention the rest, to clearly define an "English bloodline".

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984I am well aware of the history, i guess we just have different interpretations.

I'm afraid you have shown that you are not. You are aware of the glossy, simple, Hollywood version of history, and that is not the correct one.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Well we'll agree to disagree here. They were living in France for hundreds of years before heading out to England to invade it. That in my book makes them French. Not native French of course

Well, you are wrong, as I have explained above. They did not live in France as modern France is quite a bit larger than post-Dark Ages France.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Not at all but continue if you wish.

Yes indeed, you were calling him ignorant while simultaneously displaying a great deal of ignorance yourself.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Actually no it isn't. I'm sure you are well aware that in the 70's and 80's the government went out to places like India and offered doctors money and training if they would come to England. At the time we were running very low on trained professionals. Nurses also are actively recruited from abroad because we just wouldn't have the numbers without them. So yes the NHS would have collapsed without doctors and nurses coming to England to prop it up. There was even a massive push around 5 years ago to encourage people into the medical profession because many of the doctors who had come here were approaching retirement age and the government was concerned of running low.

Ahh but maybe they recruited people from abroad for no reason huh.

Well, as I can only speculate as to what would have happened if this had not occurred, and I am not particularly interested in the topic, I don't have any particular thing to say about this.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984The word chav didn't, the people did. They were less common absolutely. However i don't think it's the governments fault, chavs are international and just called by different names. I'm not a Labour supporter though and their benefit system needs revision.

Not at all; I did not have fear of gangs of kids on the streets. We did not have this disgusting, burgeoning underclass of scum like we do now; before this, there were poor people, but they were poor people who did not revel in their own poverty and ignorance like a bunch of crass pigs wallowing in their own #.

It is entirely the government's fault for allowing these useless people to keep breeding, for supporting them without asking for anything from them. They are entirely responsible for the problem they seem to have purposefully engineered (wtf did they think would happen??) and so I squarely lay the blame on them.

reply to post by x24


See the flag in the avvy? British born and bred, English to the core.

I'm not at war with anyone. I don't have CCTV on every corner, and the majority of crime and problems where I live are caused by drunken or drugged up foul mouthed white english kids, who's parents don't give a toss about them, and would rather the "system" looked after them than face their own parental responsibilites - so they're quite happy for their kids to be out till all hours, intimidating people, vandalising, being violent, getting drunk and screwing each other because "well, kids these days, there's not much you can do about them is there? Anyway, X-Factors on now....."

The problems this country faces aren't caused by immigrants. They're caused by people who simply can't be bothered to stand up and act responsibly, and instead seek a scapegoat to blame for it.

Yes, there are some problem people from ethnic backgrounds, but theres a damn site more from the "British" one, and I for one am not going to fall into the same trap that Germans did prior to WW2 by blaming one section of society for everyones problems, because we ALL know how that turned out, don't we?

All the UK needs is to accept its own problems. But no - we're too busy blaming others.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


I think the crux of the problem here is we were arguing differnt kinds of native, the genetic kind of native where people have lived on the land for millenia and the cultural native. At least i know what we're arguing now.

The second part about France. I don't know the hollywood kind of history, i have copies of the old maps in my room actually, you know those ones you can buy online? Anyway point being is i know that France broadened out a bit but i still refer to the Normans as French becsause that is modern day France. If you don't like it then fine but i am well aware of the history and that's how i view it. It is not ignorance i can assure you, i just don't agree with you.

Originally posted by neformore
Yes, there are some problem people from ethnic backgrounds, but theres a damn site more from the "British" one, and I for one am not going to fall into the same trap that Germans did prior to WW2 by blaming one section of society for everyones problems, because we ALL know how that turned out, don't we?

All the UK needs is to accept its own problems. But no - we're too busy blaming others.

The parellels between the early Nazi party and the BNP are quite striking.

In the earliest days of the Nazi's, the party was called the "German Workers Party". Compare that to the "British National Party". British jobs for British people and other such claims from the BNP mimic the german ones from that time.

The slow demonisation of a race (Jews) by the Nazis along with other undesirables and the current extra focus from the BNP on Muslims and other immigrants is again frighteningly similar.

Talk of a homeland was a big part of the Nazi regime and the BNP use this exact terminology.

If large amounts of people vote for them then i can see terrible things happening. That is if the world doesn't step in beforehand. Luckily most British people i think can see through them.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

 

I think the crux of the problem here is we were arguing differnt kinds of native, the genetic kind of native where people have lived on the land for millenia and the cultural native. At least i know what we're arguing now.

The second part about France. I don't know the hollywood kind of history, i have copies of the old maps in my room actually, you know those ones you can buy online? Anyway point being is i know that France broadened out a bit but i still refer to the Normans as French becsause that is modern day France. If you don't like it then fine but i am well aware of the history and that's how i view it. It is not ignorance i can assure you, i just don't agree with you.

Medieval Normandy was not a part of Medieval France. End of story. Say "I don't agree with you" all you like, but you will never have support from any historian on that issue.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Medieval Normandy was not a part of Medieval France. End of story. Say "I don't agree with you" all you like, but you will never have support from any historian on that issue.

I am not saying it was a part of Medievil France. I am saying it's part of modern France and so i considere them French. Not really that hard to understand, now lets get back on topic as we'll never agree