NEW STS-48 Video - UFOs All Over!

Originally posted by secretnasaman
I believe in free speech, and so does Jim Oberg. As a fellow ATS member, he is entitled to hit back when he is questioned. It is expected & welcome. I do not take it personally.
I believe in what I see on the NASA videos are unknown objects, but he does not. No big deal. We disagree. That's what ATS is all about!...cheers

Different conclusions are unavoidable when you start from different facts.

"Facts" about canadian astronauts being dropped from space crews for speaking out about UFOs, for example, is a good example of checkable claims by Martyn that turn out to be pure fantasy. Martyn seems to have learned from being burned on these delusions by avoiding allowing any information out to enable an independent investigator to verify -- or refute -- his latest claims.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Nevertheless, not one of you has been able to conclusively identify a single object.

...
Nice try though!

Note the reason: Exubie refuses to provide documentation showing how somebody could find the video independently and compare to that presented on youtube.

It should be clear by now that all the double-talk is to conceal that Exubie doesn't WANT anyone to make this comparison and investigation. He's doing all he can to sabotage it.

Poor Form.

I posted an interesting video that I thought my fellow members might enjoy because of the anomalous nature of it's content - I would not have posted it on ATS if I did not want it to be investigated. Nice Try, Jimbo.

As you are unable to identify the objects - you have now moved on to personal attacks.

He's doing all he can to sabotage it.

*Now you are blatantly engaging in projection...

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Good find !! These objects have been filmed over and over again , now we are finally paying attention.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Nice Try, Jimbo....
As you are unable to identify the objects - ...

By no means -- it's my demonstrated ability TO identify such objects when provided with date/time of the event that seems to scare you.

Asking somebody to identify an 'object' in an image of unknown source, date, time, and circumstance is so patently preposterous that it suggests either a sneaky trick or an extremely lackadaisical attitude towards 'evidence'.

Why can't you find out and tell us -- you're the one claiming the image cannot be explained? Why refuse to provide the simple information needed to investigate it?

Originally posted by JimOberg
Blast from the past:

STS-48 - Science Battles Wishful Thinking
By Jim Oberg
Special to ABCNEWS.com
2-20-99



As humans explore space, it's reasonable to imagine that other beings
in the universe are doing the same. Encountering explorers from other
planets have been a staple of science fiction for decades.

Videotapes from space shuttle missions have persuaded some folks that
NASA astronauts have already encountered alien visitors.

On the space shuttle mission STS-48 in September 1991, a TV onboard
Discovery spotted moving white dots suddenly changing direction when a
flash of light appeared. Although nearby debris frequently appears on
shuttle videos, the combination of flares, streaks and changing
directions grabbed imaginations.

Answering a congressional query the following month on behalf of a
curious constituent, NASA had four Houston experts - including one
astronaut, astronomer Karl Henize - examine the videos.

"The objects seen are [Discovery]-generated debris, illuminated by the
sun," they reported. "The flicker of light is the result of firing of
the attitude thrusters on [Discovery], and the abrupt motions of the
particles result from the impact of gas from the thrusters."

That didn't wash for some viewers, who believed they were seeing alien
visitors or Star Wars-like battles.

[*Nearby drifting debris has been hit by jet pulses on other shuttle
flights. Here's an example from STS-63 in February 1995. (RealVideo)]

Popular Interpretation

Enthusiasm for the UFO interpretation of space pictures isn't
restricted to a narrow band of crackpots, as any Web search
demonstrates. Mainstream writers and major TV networks also promulgate these misinterpretations.

Aside from enhancing the public's paranoia about government cover-ups,
it can have a poisonous effect on public support for space exploration
if a substantial portion of voters becomes convinced by such theories
that space experts, astronauts and scientists are lying to them.

Such space tapes are no surprise to NASA; the agency shrugs them off
as just one more phenomenon of space flight.

The STS-48 images were being collected as part of an ongoing NASA
study of unusual lightning.

The project was coordinated by NASA scientist Otha "Skeet" Vaughan, in
Huntsville, Ala. He has collected and analyzed about 500 hours of
tapes over two decades of shuttle flights, probably watching more
space video than anyone else.

Just Debris

Vaughan, who retired from NASA last month, said such dots appear
frequently. "They're an ordinary part of space flight," he says. "It's
obviously just more shuttle debris."

Astronauts aboard the STS-48 mission agree.

Mission specialist Mark Brown says ice formed on the shuttle's main
engine bells after the remaining fuel was dumped in space.

"These crystals would break free of the engines and float around the
shuttle," he says. "When illuminated by sunlight they looked like
small diamonds floating in space, disturbed only when the maneuvering
rockets fired - the plumes from the rockets would hit them and send
them off in different directions."

Shuttle co-pilot Ken Reightler says: "We saw a lot of this on STS-48
because we had a dump nozzle that was leaking." The same nozzle leaked
on the shuttle's next mission and "created the same shower of ice
particles - but this time apparently no one misinterpreted them as
UFOs."

[*Space shuttles are often surrounded by clouds of small ice particles
from dumped water or leaking jet thrusters. (RealVideo)]

'Fireflies'

Small particles flaking off manned spacecraft have been around since
John Glenn saw "fireflies" outside his capsule in 1962. Apollo
astronauts saw them so often they were nicknamed "moon pigeons." A
NASA study in 1971 traced them to propellant leaks, water dumps,
pyrotechnic separation and other ordinary events.

Yet claims for an extraordinary interpretation of the STS-48 images
persist, coming from respectable and seemingly rational people. Jack
Kasher, a physicist from Nebraska, has published an exhaustive
analysis showing why they cannot be debris. "The only feasible
explanation," he concludes, "is that they actually were spacecraft out
in space away from the shuttle."

Mark Carlotto, an imaging specialist in Massachusetts, published a
1995 report in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, claiming that
"beyond a reasonable doubt" the objects could not be explained as
known phenomena.

Shedding Light

Two factors - sunlight and the steering-jet pulses - explain the
videotape.

The shuttle TV cameras observed lightning on the night side of Earth.
But as the shuttle circled toward the day side, it rose into sunlight
even while the camera remained fixed on the still-dark horizon behind
it. So objects near the shuttle suddenly become illuminated - and it's
precisely at sunrise that the most famous "shuttle UFO videos" show
the appearance of these dots.

The autopilot normally fires the shuttle's steering jets to keep the
craft on course. Telemetry readouts from STS-48 show exactly such a
jet firing at the time of the mystery pulse.

Space junk and thruster gas are a lot less exciting than alien
visitors and space battles, so the popularity of UFO explanations for
such videotapes will persist. But if recent studies prove anything, it
is that the less one knows about space flight, the more likely one is
to swallow the idea of space shuttles spotting UFOs.

The interesting aspect of this article is that it was on the Internet for years, findable by search engines, yet seems to simply 'not exist' as far as the UFO world is concerned. It contains the only direct quotes from primary witnesses -- yet no UFO article about STS-48 ever seems to have used those quotes. Can anyone find anywhere on ATS the article was ever cited?

One doesn't have to agree with it, but at least -- since it represented original research -- it at least ought to have been 'debunked'. But covering up its very existence -- that's no sign of open-minded competent investigation work.

reply to post by JimOberg


There is more than one object in the video.

There are several - and you have yet to identify a single one of them. You just make excuses as to why you cannot.

*BTW Jimbo, Ice particles and debris do not maneuver under their own power. And if these were actually all just known satellites making this many course corrections; I would think You of all people would know of such an event or at least be able to prove it occurred...

But you can't.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
But you can't.

And we're all catching on why you refuse to provide the contextual information about the image -- because you are afraid that with such information, I will find such a prosaic explanation, as I have in the past.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by JimOberg

 

There is more than one object in the video.

There are several - and you have yet to identify a single one of them. You just make excuses as to why you cannot.

*BTW Jimbo, Ice particles and debris do not maneuver under their own power. And if these were actually all just known satellites making this many course corrections; I would think You of all people would know of such an event or at least be able to prove it occurred...

But you can't.

You can deny all you want and tell us what you think is in the video but explanation was already given ice crystals and thrusters nothing amazing no aliens.At this point its just your beliefs.This video has been explained over and over and undoubtedly will again when someone else puts it up as proof of aliens. This is the reason no one takes aliens seriously garbage is thrown up as proof.Dont you think NASA noticed this on the film and they didn't even bother to announce all the space ships running around hmmm wonder why? Maybe just maybe because they have seen hundreds of hours of video and know ice crystals follow shuttles in orbit.And couldn't have even fathomed the possibility someone would think there ufo space craft.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by wmd_2008

You have not either so once again HOW DO YOU know how big or what any of these objects are BET you wont answer about the size will you!

Good.

I'm glad you have finally decided to admit that you have been unable to identify any of the objects in the video. As far you are concerned; these are UFOs.

Thanks for being so candid.

Since you cant TELL anyone how big the objects are and you keep DOGING the question (we all know the reason why, NOT ufo's ) they are simply ice particles and other space debris, I cant tell you what each spec is bcause each one could be ice ,paint flecs, small particles from shuttle tiles BUT what we do know is they are not UFO'S.

Originally posted by dragonridr

....but explanation was already given ice crystals and thrusters nothing amazing no aliens.

Due to the extended period of time they remain on the screen and the manner in which the objects maneuver (absent any external force); I would say the objects in question do not exhibit the properties that are associated with ice crystals.

*Many of the objects are already moving in multiple trajectories and maneuvering before the thruster burn took place at 00:20 into the video...


Cheers!

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Due to the extended period of time they remain on the screen and the manner in which the objects maneuver (absent any external force); I would say the objects in question do not exhibit the properties that are associated with ice crystals.

Ahh, but the phrase 'absent any external force' is another case where you are making up a fake-fact out of thin air to support your imaginations.

It often takes awhile to obtain records of such external forces, and I've just posted some FOIA results for STS-114 here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can read the charts to notice a flurry of thruster firings during the period the mystery dot made a turn -- a turn that was AWAY from the location of the active jets.

Why do you suppose, Exubie, that nobody promoting the UFO interpretation of that video EVER, ever at all, sought documented context information on genuine 'external forces'. Nope. Like you, because it felt good, they imagined there were no such forces, and that was good enough 'evidence' for them -- and for you.

We're still waiting for you to admit you also did this with your claim, above, that the shuttle thrusters were aligned wrong to create any disturbing forces. Admit it. You haven't a clue how the thrusters were aligned. You just made that up.

Please remember courtesy is mandatory and to discuss the topic, not one another.

Thank you.
Moderator

Originally posted by JimOberg
....nobody promoting the UFO interpretation of that video EVER, ever at all, sought documented context information on genuine 'external forces'.

Neither have you....

You have yet to provide us with any external source data which would corroborate your claims with regards to the identity of the objects.

If corroborative evidence existed - I'm sure you would have posted it already.

Alas, the objects remain unidentified .

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by n000b


Your words really matched my thoughts because I too say exatly the same...ok we think we know they are here now and since god knows when so the question is now Why are they here?...i kept on asking this question to myself and the best answer I came up with is that maybe they are coming and going loading materials from our planet like gold, oil for their own planet so basically they maybe just using us to extract all the material their planets needs. This maybe can also explain why the goverment is hiding everything maybe there is an agreement with these folks, they dont attack once we give them what they need...this is the only reason I can come up with if they are here.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys

Originally posted by Unregistered
The ufo moving away after a supposed missile was launched on earth is nothing more than a rocket booster

The tether incident has already been debunked in UFO Hunters. The shuttle has multi-layered windows and particles were trapped in between them. As for their doughnut with a notch shape, that is the shape of the light being used much like how you aim a flashlight and see that it creates a peculiar shape. Hence there are no side views or front views of the particles. Have you ever wondered why the tether incident's "ufos" are only facing one way?

You're right about the tether, they do seem to have debunked it to a degree, but the havent managed to debunk the other video of the object moving away at rapid speeds after a supposed missile fired passed.
www.youtube.com...

Regarding the tether, if it is particles trapped in between window layers, how can some of the particles pass behind the tether which is several miles away? Unless its an optical illusion.

Originally posted by reugen
Regarding the tether, if it is particles trapped in between window layers, how can some of the particles pass behind the tether which is several miles away? Unless its an optical illusion.

How about a feature of the pixels of the camera?

See www.rense.com...

reply to post by n000b


I sometimes wonder that or are we a "gas station" in this part of the galaxy? because they hover over thunderstorms and ones below cloud cover go to isolated lakes and gather water..

so if it was a holiday place... i doubt all the USO bases and UFO bases are just for visiting

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
I sometimes wonder that or are we a "gas station" in this part of the galaxy? because they hover over thunderstorms and ones below cloud cover go to isolated lakes and gather water..

The images as shown on youtube sure do involve a lot of thunderstorms.

But your guess at a causal link is backwards.

The camera is pointing at thunderstorms deliberately. Passing dots are just coincidental.

Google 'Mesoscale Lightning Experiment' to learn more about the observation program that most of these infamous 'UFO scenes' come from.

reply to post by JimOberg


Just out of curiousity, are you a believer in flying saucers and aliens or are you a skeptic? Have you had any experiences of your own? If this is a stupid question then pardon my ignorance, just curious thats all.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Just out of curiousity, are you a believer in flying saucers and aliens or are you a skeptic? Have you had any experiences of your own? If this is a stupid question then pardon my ignorance, just curious thats all.

I believe there's a strong possibility that some UFO reports describe important phenomena that we better learn to filter out -- ignoring them because of the 'noise' could be a costly mistake.