Mother, son missing in forced chemo case

They are doing the right thing on avoiding chemo. But praying? God will not help people who don't help themselves.

A doctor recently said having chemo treatments is a race against time. You just have to wait what will kill you first, the cancer or the chemo.

That said, the mother and son could try the following treatments (note: chemo and radiation therapy are useless and only for idiots.)

IAA
Futuristic-sounding Proton Beam Therapy

Here's how I see it...

Everyone is focusing on the boy's right to chose--but is he old enough to make that decision? That can be argued back and forth to death.

I think that the other side needs to be discussed and that is whether or not the parent has the right to decide the type of treatment the child receives.

It seem that lately, the parents have no right whatsoever to decide how their child is treated if they are sick, injured or may have a mental problem.

For instance, many parents have been threatened with their child being taken away if they didn't give their child a very powerful psychotropic (correct term?) drug for ADD.

If I personally would not decide to opt for chemo, prescriptions, or other forms of possibly harmful treatments that were recommended to me by a doctor and no one can do anything about it, how is it right to require a parent to go against those beliefs and administer these treatments to their children?

Wouldn't that also make them a "bad" parent?

The other problem w/ this issue is the government telling us what kinds of treatment are acceptable and which are not. And if you don't force those treatments on your child at their behest then you don't deserve to have your child?

I see cancer as sometimes being a result of some of the very unnatural things we put into our bodies, especially these days. So why is that the best way to treat cancer is to do more unnatural things to your body?

Like my boyfriend said when my bank mistakenly froze my account when they weren't suppose to..."They can take your money, your home, your CHILD, your freedom, your house, your pet, your dignity any time they want" Just don't piss them off...

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sonya610

 

The article does not imply that they never would have accepted the treatment, they attended the first appointment and received the full first treatment. The boy went into respirtory distress (it does not give the serevity or any other specifics) and combined with issues that he and family already had regarding his aunts death related to chemo, they decided not to continue. It is unfortunate that they do not want the treatment, but it is their right, everyone has the right to refuse treatment.

I think...with that being said...that's reason enough right there for the gov't to NOT interfere. I'm really tired of the gov't deciding what's best for us.

Just my two cents here...I totally believe that people should be free to make their own medical decisions IF they are well informed of their medical condition and its treatments, whatever your various treatment options may be- herbal, natural, alternative and modern.

I also believe that a chronically sick child, if the parents are open and honest about their condition, can understand what is going on with their illness and treatment, enough to be 'somewhat' involved in the decision making process.

This child however (via his parents) could very well be (and probably is) under the influence of what is likely an experienced scam artist/cult leader. This family subscribes to the "Nemenhah" church which believes in natural remedies and opposes all medicine that "attacks" the body. Now, before anyone jumps on me, I totally support and have practiced natural medicine. I am in no way opposed to it at all and believe that in some or most cases, it is superior to modern medicine. But, I still believe that modern medicine can work too. But this Nemenhah group is led by a chief Phillip 'Cloudpiler' Landis who started this group right after he was released FROM JAIL! Yes, JAIL!

Phillip 'Cloudpiler' Landis was convicted in 2 states (he received 2 10-year sentences in Montana) of fraud for misleading investors in an alternative medicine health mushroom growing business. This Cloudpiler was also investigated by Al Carroll, an Apache doctor & Fulbright scholar, who helps expose scam artists who exploit American Indian traditions for profit. Sounds to me like this Cloudpiler wants this family's money (which by the way, this Cloudpiler charges for his services as well as admission -250.00- to his group in addition to a 100.00 mandatory monthly "donation"). Many American Indian groups are extremely opposed to this Cloudpiler, saying that a genuine Native American healer would never counsel a family to reject a lifesaving treatment.

If this "healer" was really interested in this child's health, he wouldn't be advising this family to refuse a treatment which has a 90% success rate...

By the way, without treatment, Daniel Hauser has a 95% chance of dying...

The kid cannot read or write. How can he make sound judgments of a scientific nature if he does not even understand the disease that he is suffering from?

He is completely dependent on his parents to help him get better. His parents are not interested in the child getting better. They are interested in PRAYING for his health. They are not trying to use another scientific method of him getting better.

If this child's parents were Zeus worshipers and said

"We believe that us making an offer to Zeus is a more sound alternative than modern medicine" would you agree? Really would you agree with that?

I would call them incapable of making rational decisions based on modern medicine and science. Put them in a time machine back to the bronze age because that is where they belong.

half of you are missing the point

the point is that its not YOUR business or the GOVT business what medical practices someone does for their health

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

and the VERY FACT that you make it your business, makes you a fascist plain and simple

the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
The kid cannot read or write. How can he make sound judgments of a scientific nature if he does not even understand the disease that he is suffering from?

You do not understand it either. Or did you cure it already? Thanks but i prefer beef or chicken in my burgers.

Chemo or radiation therapy are STILL experimental!!! Its a freaking mad scientist experiment!

They do not have a 100% success rate. There is a %CHANCE that it will kill you in the process.

My grandfather had cancer. And after years of medical EXPIERMENTS, he became the bionic man, metal and flesh. He died after awhile, he was in severe pain and on all kinds of medications. Great cure doc. Those chemicals sure helped (kill him).

Do not be offended when i laugh at this primitive "medicine"

You might as well give me a blood letting for my cancer!
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by PoOkStErX2
But this Nemenhah group is led by a chief Phillip 'Cloudpiler' Landis who started this group right after he was released FROM JAIL! Yes, JAIL!

Star for you, VERY WELL stated.

The people on this thread are all screaming about the GOVERNMENT. None of them are thinking twice about a religious group that can be making utterly whacky decisions that cost kids their lives.

And I find it hard to believe so many here still keep saying "well chemo killed my great granpa so its evil" without READING or KNOWING that different cancers react differently. Sheesh.

Yes that does happen and it should be protected by "personal freedoms". Kids dying from lack of insulin. Or in one case here in Georgia, the cult was "vegan" and the parents only fed their newborn apple juice and soy milk, and then were surprised when it died of malnutrition at 6 weeks old.

But that is the parents right correct? Do we want the government telling people they can't just feed their newborns applejuice! That would be a violation of the parents rights! (BTW the kid is dead and the parents are serving prison terms).

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

what the difference of dieing at age 13, 30, or 80?

There's a big difference, in the other thread on this issue it discusses that this child had a learning disability and the grounds that the judge ruled on. I side with the judge, his reasoning was sound. This child does not understand the consequences of his decisions, therefore he should not be allowed to deny treatment.

Starred!

We need to keep it in the forefront of our minds that this child is a child until 18. At that time, he may make his own decisions.

We must remember this child is not with full mental capacity. That, coupled with some teens not even realizing DEATH IS FOREVER, no WAY should this baby be making ANY decisions concerning whats best for him. Especially the decision between life or death! Depending on his disabilities, he may not even know whats best for himself.

If I was neglecting my child by NOT receiving treatment for my sick child - I would have to answer to that. She should be and is no different. This is neglect. No matter how you slice it.

Due to the fact this mother is NEGLECTING to treat her son with a method - having a 90% success rate - the government should absolutely step in and see to it that child GETS WHAT IS IN HIS BEST INTEREST.

In this case, that would be Chemo, as horrid as it is. Its about the long haul.

Wonder how much insurance that lil boy has on his head? Hmmm. And they get SO annoying at 13... I know - I have four. lol

If he dies, I hope she fries.

reply to post by nunya13


Definately, the government has no business in my healthcare decisions or the decisions I make for my children.

Give it up all you nosey bodies.
It has already been said, but seems that it needs frequent repeating:

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

And it is still none of your business that they pray to Zeus or their cheer leader is Charles Manson.

It is still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

So just butt out!!!
Surely you have affairs of your own to look after.

Originally posted by OhZone
Give it up all you nosey bodies.
It has already been said, but seems that it needs frequent repeating:

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

And it is still none of your business that they pray to Zeus or their cheer leader is Charles Manson.

It is still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

So just butt out!!!
Surely you have affairs of your own to look after.

This.

It is his decision, and the decision of his family, what treatment he gets or doesn't get. You, the government, nor I can tell him what to do, he has to make that decision. If he doesn't want chemo, that is his prerogative. If he wants chemo, again his prerogative.


It is his life, and his life alone. I am sorry, but he's not a 5 year old boy who doesn't know what death is. If he dies, that's a shame, but it was his decision. You, nor the government, can force him into take a treatment he doesn't want. Get off your high horse and let him live his own god damn life.


To make him take a treatment he doesn't want is tyranny.

reply to post by OhZone


So, if my "holistic healer" from my church of "non-traditional" medicine says that I should inject Drano into my kid in order to cure them of cancer, that this in no one's business?!

Or if like another person noted, my church told me to feed some weird deprivation diet to my kids in order to keep Satan out, like soy milk & celery until they wasted away of malnutrition...

Or if my church/cult leader told me to "spare the rod" by beating my child senseless with a golf club so that Satan would get out....

This is none of anyone's business?????? Someone MUST protect children whose parents have fallen under the spell of charlatans/cult leaders and quasi-religious nut-jobs....as I feel is the case with this family.

I am in no way saying that Child Protective Services is a perfect agency, but at least it's something (that needs massive improvement), but hey, if my neighbors are abusing their children, and this means those well meaning parents who do it in the name of their beliefs or religion, I want someone involved in these families lives!

Originally posted by OhZone
Give it up all you nosey bodies.
It has already been said, but seems that it needs frequent repeating:

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

And it is still none of your business that they pray to Zeus or their cheer leader is Charles Manson.

It is still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

So just butt out!!!
Surely you have affairs of your own to look after.

Come on! Not to put down your belief but being that you are preaching ANARCHY you might want to reconsider. Government needs to but out and let people do whatever they want. Someone wants to rape and kill you? BUTT OUT! Not the governments place to nose in on someones decision to shoot someone else. A parent wants to let their child die? BUTT OUT! Not your concern.

I want to use a cuss word but I know the mod judges will rule poorly in my favor. I want to use many cuss words.

I am about to NNNEEERRRDDD RRRAAAGGGEEE!

I logged in just to reply.

This is a sad situation the kid is old enough to say if he wants the treatment or not he chose not to get it, if my son chose that I would follow his wishes we don't know what they go through when they get cemo... I love all 3 of my children and I'm a God fearing/loving person and if they where old enough, and I think that kid is old enough to know if he wants to go through that again it's HIS CHOICE not the Gov's.

I will pray for that child and the parents.

BTW he is on alt medication I'm not sure what that is but once again it's his choice and the parents.

In this case, Rodenberg said, the state's interest in protecting the child overrides the constitutional right to freedom of religious expression and a parent's right to direct a child's upbringing.

scienceblogs.com...


Wow......that's nice, right. Did I honestly just read this?! Wow. Why is the state concerned with how a parent raises their child(ren) when tens of thousands are lost and neglected within their own health care system.

Pook, some would argue that injecting drano might be the better alternative to chemo.
I think that your extreme ideas there are quite far off the mark of what is going on here.
And you also advocate interfering with their right to follow their own religion?
Your is better?
Why do you think so?
What if others disagreed and wanted you to do things their way.
The only right thing to do is what you dictate?

Taking that child out of his home and putting him in foster care + chemo is a sure death sentence.
Emotional trauma frequently precedes the onset of cancer and worsens existing forms of any illness.
Note the number of widows who develop cancer.

Turkey, You too are so out of it that I won’t even try to answer you.
You failed to notice that these parents are not wanting to let their child die.
They just do not wish to torture him any further.
I’d like to use a few cuss words on people like you too.
BTW how are you running your own life?
How many others have you chosen to run?
Do you think people have a right to run their own lives?
If they do a lousy job, you might say that is evolution in action.

If the state wants to be concerned about parents then KILL this guy!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't screw with parents that are looking out for the best interest of their children

Rodriguez was one of the first to discover 34-year-old Angelo Mendoza on April 28 after police said Mendoza bit an eyeball out of his 4-year-old son's face and ate it.

Warning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This will break your heart.


www.turnto23.com...

www.turnto23.com...

Originally posted by muzzleflash
half of you are missing the point

the point is that its not YOUR business or the GOVT business what medical practices someone does for their health

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

and the VERY FACT that you make it your business, makes you a fascist plain and simple

the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions

I understand that it's not anyone's business, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss our opinions about it. It's only when we force our opinions (like the gov't is doing) on people that it becomes an intrusion.

Some of us could very well end up in this position some day, hopefully never.

If people didn't discuss things like this there would never be any change.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver


Ok so this is my first post in this forum so if it's not correct sorry. I also did not see this on here so if it's been discussed delete it. Thanks..
I was flipping channels and came across this on CNN.
From reading the article it seems the mother planned not to show and already had a plan set as to where she was going to go. I personally dont think the government should be involved. From what I have read he doesnt want the treatment. Personally I think if he doesnt want it let him be.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

They don't want people refusing chemo because they would make less money on it then.

That's it plain and simple. These 2 are going against the norm and what happens when we do something different? We get punished for being different.

This country will never better itself if we leave the same people and same type of people in power over and over again.

They know this, they know some of us know this, but they know we can't do shat about it.