Mother, son missing in forced chemo case

It DOES boil down to the fact that the type of "Alternative Medicine" that they want to practice is prayer.

Do you consider Prayer an alternative medicine?

Should any Doctor consider prayer a form of alternative medicine?

Should the U.S. government consider prayer a form of alternative medicine?

I personally do not think prayer is a valid form of alternative medicine.

I can guaran-edit-tee that no one in that family lets the milk sit outside of the refrigerator for a month and pray that it gets turned into fresh milk and then drinks it.

I really hope the child is removed from that environment. This is why we have a government. It is really a shame we have to bring the government into a situation like this but I am really glad that we do.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers



I agree with you on sometimes the gov. does need to get involved, and it is sad that they do sometimes but that is what they are for.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage



I agree, it isn't black and white, sometimes it is necessary for the gov. to get involved, others it is not, it is totally dependent on the situation.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

what the difference of dieing at age 13, 30, or 80?

There's a big difference, in the other thread on this issue it discusses that this child had a learning disability and the grounds that the judge ruled on. I side with the judge, his reasoning was sound. This child does not understand the consequences of his decisions, therefore he should not be allowed to deny treatment.

Yeah, I technically have a learning/reading disability as well, but I know what "death" is and so should any 13 year old. And I said, to a Christian, whats the difference. Is there an age requirement to getting into heaven that I missed?

I don't think the boy is old enough to make his mind up about something like this treatment, then again i'm not convinced that he is saying he doesn't want it because of his own choice. Parents can sway your way of thinking a great deal, and the case of strictly religous parents, it can be a lot worse.

I agree that the government should sometimes stay out of things, but in this case, i believe the docs should step in and take the lead.

Just my opinion though.

CX.

Thi wrong...My mother and father, both deceased now, form stage 4 lung cancer, were given the option a the hospitol, fo r chemo or not. IN both cases, without chemo, the doctors gave them a few weeks at most. With chemo, 8 months to a year. CHemo does completely destroy yuor immune system...i can contend for that, seeing both my parents sufffer though this barbarric treatment.
The kid is 13..when i was 13, i would have made a desecent decision, ut certinly not death. I would have chosen a natural way of dealing with it, IF i wa sick with cancer. ALL chemo does, IF its caught late enough is prolong yuor life. I do know a few tht have gone through reamission and sruvived another decade, but really for the state to froce him? This is unamerican..its HIS choice to make, and no one elses, not even gods choice. Afterall, all we really are, are numbers to the government..social security is proof of that. not your name. I wound NOT a ssytem or man, who sees me as expndable profit or a simple series of numbers, tell me when and where i will or will not die. This is very uncosntitutional, i think that juddge needs to go back to judge school, and read up on human rights.

Originally posted by ziggy1706
Thi wrong...My mother and father, both deceased now, form stage 4 lung cancer, were given the option a the hospitol, fo r chemo or not. IN both cases, without chemo, the doctors gave them a few weeks at most. With chemo, 8 months to a year. CHemo does completely destroy yuor immune system...i can contend for that, seeing both my parents sufffer though this barbarric treatment.
The kid is 13..when i was 13, i would have made a desecent decision, ut certinly not death. I would have chosen a natural way of dealing with it, IF i wa sick with cancer. ALL chemo does, IF its caught late enough is prolong yuor life. I do know a few tht have gone through reamission and sruvived another decade, but really for the state to froce him? This is unamerican..its HIS choice to make, and no one elses, not even gods choice. Afterall, all we really are, are numbers to the government..social security is proof of that. not your name. I wound NOT a ssytem or man, who sees me as expndable profit or a simple series of numbers, tell me when and where i will or will not die. This is very uncosntitutional, i think that juddge needs to go back to judge school, and read up on human rights.

What?

Originally posted by Republican08
... theres a 90 percent chance chemo will cure him

Post links to prove this.

Apart from the fact that Chemo has never cured anyone EVER, it only has a 10 percent chance of creating the conditions for long-term remission.

This kid already tried your way. Now he is running for the hills with his mother... If it was 90 percent and really did cure cancer; the family would be running towards it, not away.

I've been through chemo-therapy. It isn't 90 a percent success and it is not a cure.

Don't lie about cancer. Please post links. If you really know of a method or clinic who has 90 percent success; I need to know.

Seriously.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Yep he tried the chemo and it was working. There was a reduction in the tumor.

His choice saw the tumor grow.

If you read the article the doctors, who are a better source than you, have stated that he had a 90% chance of the tumor going away with the chemo treatments.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Hey I found a link that discusses his exact ailment in greater detail.

They say...

"When Hodgkin's disease is detected early and treated properly, as many as 90 percent of the cases can be cured. This is a big change from the prognosis — or outlook — 25 years ago. Before the development of new anti-cancer drugs, the disease was almost always fatal."

www.childrenscancer.org...

This website specializes in childhood cancer. I guess you could go on to argue that the statistics are false or purposefully altered to put money in the drug companies pocket. I really cannot argue against that. I do disagree with it though. It takes a emotionally hard human being in today's America to look at a child with cancer and not be moved. Especially a parent.

Prayer might give this kid A chance. Chemo will give this kid the BEST chance.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Chemo will give this kid the BEST chance.

This kid already underwent chemo.

It didn't work.

Prayer sounds nice, but is ineffective.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1

This kid already underwent chemo.

It didn't work.

Well actually if you read the article you would know that the chemo DID in fact work, it managed to shrink the tumor. When the boy refused chemo, the tumor grew again. The only way to get rid of cancer is to go all the way. You have to completely kill the cancer, or at least get it into remission, and if you don't it will simply begin to grow again.

This is a touchy case, but in this particular instance I do believe the parent's decision to refuse medical services for their child is neglect. The child doesn't understand the implications of his disease and the effectiveness of chemo in stopping it, and apparently neither do the parents. What they are doing by refusing the service is guaranteeing the child will die. While I agree that an adult should be able to choose to die, a child (especially a mentally challenged one) is not mature enough to make that decision. And parents should never be allowed to let their children die when a medical procedure could easily save his life.



EDIT to add: The effectiveness of chemo depends entirely on the type of cancer. This child has Hodgkin's disease, which has an effective cure rate of 90% with chemotherapy. Other forms of cancer are more or less successful based on the type. For example, my father had pancreatic cancer, which is much less curable by chemo, and he also had to undergo radiation therapy before his cancer finally went into remission.



[edit on 20-5-2009 by drwizardphd]

Originally posted by Republican08
The boy does have a right to his own decisions, albeit he is extremely young, but it is his choice.

Actually, he doesn't have a right to his own decisions, since he's a minor. And in cases where minors insist on foolishness to this level, the court has an obligation to step in and impose corrective action.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Prayer might give this kid A chance. Chemo will give this kid the BEST chance.

And I would say their prayers have been answered already in the form of medical treatment. Prayer is for the impossible...for all the rest, God has given us medical science.


[edit on 20-5-2009 by Praetorian Guard]

I don't see what the problem is in this whole case. Really I don't. As a minor, his parents make the decision for him, if he should think that their decision is a wrong one he should sue them and have his way. If both the kid and parents agree that it is their choice to not have chemo, well, good luck to them.

There is nothing that the government should do except respect their decision. I might just as well decide to stop eating and die of starvation. Minor or not, tt is my life and my choice whether, when or how I end it.

Kind regards, M.

Originally posted by mystiq
Yes, Hodgkin's disease. Thats what my cousin died of around 20 ish. He had chemo, and it put it into remission, and then it returned. Alas, he had no immune system left and it ravished him quickly. Chemo is something that has to be carefully thought out, and if your immune system is a lemon, its not a smart move. My kids won't be receiving it.

You know Mystiq, all the people I have known, who have had this invasive treatment died of the treatment - ALL.

I have treated my own cancer with hydrogen peroxide, and a building of a strong awareness and aversion to toxic chemicals we use on a dayly basis(they are out of my life).

I have found these two important treatments for serious illness that I believe to be simple and helpful that I wish to share with a fellow kanuck...first this

Baking Soda, Maple Sirup Cancer Cure
Mix 3 parts organic maple syrup with 1 part Aluminum free baking soda ( Red Mill Brand) stir with low heat (not over 120 degrees) for 10 minutes and take 3 tsp per day for 1 to 2 months.
Change diet to no meat and especially no sugar!! and no white flour.

and this is excellent!!!

That Judge had no right to force his beliefs upon a dying person and ignore their wishes.

So he doesn't want to spend the last of his days being their lab rat. What's wrong with that?

Let them be.

I wonder how much treatment the hospital would force on him if his parents didn't have health insurance?

The hospital has to grab all the money they can while hes is alive.

If the parents were hippie types who only believed in Holistic remedies, or shamanistic healing, would you all still be so upset? Are you upset because it is Christian people wanting to follow their faith for healing?

How do you determine who's ideal way of treatment is better than the other? I think a lot of hospitals don't want holistic or prayer treatment because they can't make that $$ off of it.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe chemo, radiation and surgery do work at times. But I think a person has the free will to choose treatment as their belief see's fit.
I understand this is a 13 year old, but reverse the situation, what if the child's parents were Non-religious and the child was a born again, If he begged his parents that he wanted god to heal him, or allah, or buddah, or whomever he strongly believed in, do the parents have the right to not give him his last wishes for healing?

If the parents forced that treatment on him, Would the child feel like he disobeyed his religious belief, If the treatment failed would he feel then his god abandoned him for not being honorable to his faith?

Its really a sticky situation. I personally would hope chemo would help my child if she had cancer, but Ultimately who are we to force a treatment on someone?

i have had cancer and chemo and i think its disgusting what they're doing to this kid and his family. cancer can be a death sentence even WITH chemo. the kid doesnt want it. he may die anyway, even if he has it. let him and his family alone.

people who think chemo should be forced on a kid who doesnt want it make me sick, and they should have some high does chemo so they know what they're talking about. at the high dose, it can be horrific treatment. no one who doesnt want it or cant handle it should be forced to have it. that amounts to torture of a person who has a good chance of dying anyway even with the torture.

apart from that, separating a kid from his family at a time when he NEEDS their support and if he has a loving and well intentioned family should NOT be allowed. just the stress of the separation could kill him. and i can't even IMAGINE going through cancer without family support or people you know. its just incomprehensible to me that humans can do this to someone.

Having been the mother of a child with cancer, I can tell you this, it's no ones business but theirs. When it was my child, it was my burden. We had to live it, we had to endure it, therefor the decision had to be ours. Not the Doctors not the laywers, not yours, nor mine.
The only people that should be involved in this decision is the boy, and his parents. The only judgement should come from their God. Not us, not the press and not the courts. I know I do not want anyone telling me how to live, and I certainly do not want anyone telling me how to die.