Jehovah's Witnesses Christian or Cult?

In terms of Jehovah's Witness', the only real thing I'm concerned about is why their illustrations of Jesus look so much like Ryan Reynolds.

I've actually visited one of their Sydney compounds and I have to give it to them, they are totally prepared for the end times moreso than a lot of mainstream religions.
They have their own mega water tanks, electricity supply, stored food supply and are totally self sufficient. The compound could support a thousand people and that was only one that I've seen.

This kind of thing, as well as their beliefs make them seem like a sect to a lot of people but I reckon that it's admirable that they practice what they preach.

They preach the end of times, while also being prepared for it.

I'm a non-practicing Catholic myself and it made me wonder why the Clergy don't really have a PRACTICAL plan for the end of times similiar to JW and other less mainstream religions.

reply to post by Flighty


If you only knew, in New York they have there own Garbage Trucks, Ambulances, Fire Trucks, Street Sweepers, all with the Watchtower logo.
They have there own civic infrastructure, they know in the future they won't be able to depend of the government for some basic services, and even now they use these.

And just within the last month, it's been told that they will be pulling right out of New York, Brooklyn. That's their world headquarters, even before 9/11 they began selling buildings of which they had about 33 at one time.
After 9/11 they accelerated those plans.

So when the end comes they will not have major buildings in the city.

Are they preparing for the end of this system as we know it, absolutely, and they have a infrastructure plan ready to roll out when it's all over.

Over 2 years ago the JW's were told to get there bugout survival bags ready.

If your at ATS you know they are ahead of the curve of most of the people who are asleep at the wheel, in this area.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

ok, about the 144,000.

I was going to elaborate in detail about this subject, but then changed my mind. I think simple is better, so here we go:

This is one of the doctrines that sets JW's apart from most main stream Christian religions. But, really... does the "New Testament" only give Christians the hope of going to heaven as God's reward to the righteous and meek ones???? No, no and again NO!

I won't talk about the "Old Testament" here, because, living forever on earth IS ALWAYS the reward. Going to heaven as the reward was never mention in the OT.

In the "New Testament", where is there evidence of living in a "restored earth"?

Please, take out your Bible and read:

Matthew 5:5
Matthew 6:9,10
John 10:16
2Peter 3:13
Revelation 7:4,9,10
Revelation 21:3,4

Now ask yourself a few simple, common sense questions:


What was God's original purpose for the earth?
Was it just to serve as some kind of "testing ground"?
If Adam would have NOT sinned, did he think that at some point he was to go to heaven?
Why did Jesus teach the resurrection of the dead?
Why would have Jesus resurrected Lazarus if in time he would go to heaven?

Now, think about how governments are set up now... is it not true that the ruling class is always SMALL IN NUMBER compared to the subjects they rule over? In most types of human governments, the main ruler or president always appoints an "administration", a "cabinet", "advisers" to assist him, right?

God's heavenly kingdom has a similar set up. YES, God has appointed his son Jesus as king of this kingdom, but he has also appointed 144,000 humans (a small number compared with the billions of people that have lived) that in a way acts as the "administration" that will assist Jesus as co-rulers and priests. So, who or what is this heavenly administration going to RULE OVER?????

Interesting to note in John's vision, is that immediately after seeing the sealing of the 144,000, he then sees a "great crowd" which no man was able to number coming out from all nations. So there is a clear distinction among these two groups, we can also see why this number (144,000) can be taken as a literal one.

For more info, please read article HERE

Also, watch short video HERE



[edit on 17-5-2009 by holywar]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Flighty

 

If you only knew, in New York they have there own Garbage Trucks, Ambulances, Fire Trucks, Street Sweepers, all with the Watchtower logo.
They have there own civic infrastructure, they know in the future they won't be able to depend of the government for some basic services, and even now they use these.

And just within the last month, it's been told that they will be pulling right out of New York, Brooklyn. That's their world headquarters, even before 9/11 they began selling buildings of which they had about 33 at one time.
After 9/11 they accelerated those plans.

So when the end comes they will not have major buildings in the city.

Are they preparing for the end of this system as we know it, absolutely, and they have a infrastructure plan ready to roll out when it's all over.


(Over 2 years ago the JW's were told to get there bugout survival bags ready.)

If your at ATS you know they are ahead of the curve of most of the people who are asleep at the wheel, in this area.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

excuse last post ,i obviously got that wrong.
i tried to highlight the part where it was suggested that two years ago jehovah's witness were told to get their bug out bags ready

its not much longer than that i stopped reading their literature,and my son is an elder in a local congregation to where i live,i am positive he would have told me if that had been included in the watchtower,most witnesses would not know what a bug out bag was ..i would have been one of them a few months ago

reply to post by illece


Emergency kits, Survival kits, Bug out kits it's all the same.

And it was in their monthly Kingdom Ministry, some never placed any importance on it, you must understand that even some JW's have minimized that instruction as not being a big deal, and think it had no real significance, I on the other hand know exactly what it means.

I assure you any JW's that visit this site are very much awake as to world events and how they are relating to bible prophesy, more so than even other JW's.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


That's amazing.
I had no idea about the alternative infrastructure plan that they have.
I'd imagine that getting out of major cities would make a lot of sense in times of strife.

I was on the brink of converting to JW a few years ago, which is why I had the tour of the compound.
I really appreciated it and it opened my eyes to a totally new concept of religion.
I admired how they went door to door in all weather to chat about Jesus.
My son who was young at the time, enjoyed the visits.

I remember years ago when I was a small child, we used to have the Nuns in their habits going door to door through the neighbourhood in much the same way as the JWs. (Back in the 60's , ages ago)

There is a very strong sense of community that they have which has been lost in a lot of religions.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


"Here is the question, did Satan change God's original purpose for the earth and humanity?"

God knew everything that was happening and always did know it was going to happen...everything in my opinion was God's original purpose. It appears to me as human assumption to even consider that God was caught out by surprise with what Satan did...Amazing. Satan was apart of Gods original design...God knows everything, God is everyfhing and everything comes from God the Father/Mother of all creation, the Almighty One

Take care








[edit on 19-5-2009 by flashesofblue]

reply to post by flashesofblue


Sorry that would be incorrect, God has the ability to look into the future, the same as we can go on the internet, turn a TV, or turn the Radio.

Only he has a future channel or station he can tune into, but he has the choice, he doesn't automatically know the future for every spirit or human

If that were true God and his Holy spirit would flawed for picking certain people through the ages to do his will, and then they went bad.
For example King Saul & Judas.

The Angel that became Satan the Devil would not have been given any assignment that had to do with Earth if God knew he was going to sabotage his purpose. If you think God created Satan the Devil, then you don't understand. Satan created Satan by his actions. Angels become Demons by their actions. Before that God created everything and it was all good, no evil existed in the entire universe. Satan created evil, not God.

God can and does know the future for many things, but when it comes to individuals if he see's it, it has to happen, the person is doomed and their free will of choice is hopeless, nor could they hope to get help from God before they go bad. God doesn't operate that way. His qualities of Love and Justice prevent it.

Originally posted by flashesofblue
It appears to me as human assumption to even consider that God was caught out by surprise with what Satan did...Amazing. Satan was apart of Gods original design...God knows everything, God is everyfhing and everything comes from God the Father/Mother of all creation, the Almighty One

you plan a trip to someplace far. you prepare your car. your purpose is to get to your destination.

you are fully aware of the possibility of a flat tire, does that mean the flat tire was planned? does the flat tire change your original plans?

if you stop thinking in absolutes, whole new worlds open up

reply to post by flashesofblue


I guess the best way to look at is is God knows our potential and it's through this that He calls out certain people to be in His government. After all, God knows the desires of our hearts. He didn't create man's desires. He didn't create evil. His purpose for mankind has never changed but due to the nature of man and Satan, the plan for mankind has changed. Once Jesus was born for His purpose to save mankind, the plan was set in stone. Nothing can change what is about to happen. Jesus is about to return and it's the perfect time for the prophecies on the churches "falling away" seeing that there are so many christians.... nearly 99% who are blinded by the corruption of Satan. Satan planted his seed in the Roman Catholic church and this seed grew and spread into the Protestant churches. Even God's true Church has seen some of Satan's seed planted. The Worldwide Church of God fell away after the death of Herbert W. Armstrong causing much of the churchmembers to break away from the WCG and start their own church organizations in which they hold the traditions of what Armstrong taught..... the true "Gospel" or Good News of the coming Kingdom of God on earth. This is somewhat what the JW's teach also. Because of this, I have much respect for the JW's. I actually had two ladies from the JW church in my town knock on my door shortly after easter. I think they were surprised when I invited them into my house to talk to them. They learned that I don't celebrate christianized pagan holidays, especially when the Jewish Holy Day of Passover and Unleavened Bread are the times when Jesus acutally died and resurrected. We had a wonderful conversation and we invited them to drop by any time. If only my parents would have shown this kind of compassion when I was a kid.... when they would mock JW's that came by to knock on our door. We were raised baptist and it wasn't until my research on prophecy that I discovered the truth. I urge you to do the same.

Edited for misspelling.

[edit on 5/19/2009 by Locoman8]

thank you to those who replied. I guess I may appear stubborn however I believe that God made man in hIs image, Male and Female He created them, and God knew that they would eat the fruit that would open their eyes and that they would know good and evil. I believe that if that is the case that good and evil came from God. If you think that Satan created evil then you are saying that satan can create, making him a god. I dont think that is correct. I believe that everything came from God, and we as well as angels do with this knowledge what we do.

I beleive that there is absolutely no limitation on Gods knowledge and this include all knowledge of the future. God does not interfer because God gave us free will.

We all believe what we believe and I feel it very presumptuous of some to have the audacity to say that my belief is incorrect. What makes you so right and me so wrong?

God is the greatest source of knowledge in the universe, God our Father/Mother is the creator of all knowledge and knows everything. To put any human limitations on God is only human, to place human analogies with God, like car trips or court cases is in my opinion a basic human flaw. To draw God with a white flowing beard sitting on a cloud is a ridiculous concept and really stuffed up Childrens minds with visual illusions of our Almighty Creator, our Father/Mother God. To even draw Jesus Christ as a white man just shows how ridiculous humans can think, consider where he came from and the color of the skin of those people from that region....mmm humans.

reply to post by flashesofblue


Hello Flashes of Blue!

It sounds to me like you believe in "predestination". The idea that God knows the outcome of every single thing because he already has it planned out.

God is LOVE, how can you reconcile him "creating evil" or anything evil coming from him????. I don't see evil as a "creation", evil can be the end result of a BAD CHOICE. Because God is a God of LOVE, he has made us in his likeliness, one of the attributes we share with God and all his angelic army is the gift of FREE WILL.

Why do you CHOOSE to believe that anything evil can come from him?

****1 JOHN 4:8*****

RELATED ARTICLE

dthwraith
I continue to enjoy reading the posts here as the debate over if JW's are christian or not continues, I have gone ahead and produced another thread titled "Debunking false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses" where I have taken the time to go point by point and refute or back up the claims made in the link you origianlly posted. I tried to be as breif as possible on each point as I could since most of it has already been thoroughly covered, not just here, but in many other threads on this site, however, it
seemed that to address each of these claims one at a time could be benificial, so here it is...
www.belowtopsecret.com...

It is a way long read...but I spent a bunch of time putting it together, so check it out

reply to post by holywar


hi, its seems to me that I am believing in something some may find offensive. My opinion is that when God said that man (male and female) knew good and evil then they had that knowledge. This knowledge came from God, as we are created in God's image...Whats so wrong with that. God created light and dark, day and night, good and evil...its basic to me. Its what man has done with this knowledge that is mans free will. Man has marvelled in it like a pig in mud...rolling over all the endless possiblities, creating and manifesting endless ways to perpetuate evil. Man did that. Man chooses to do evil, God chooses not to. God and the children who follow God know not to, they are Discerning, they know the knowledge. We will always know this knowledge, we are made in the image of God, male and female.

God created Satan, God knew what Satan would do with the knowledge. I believe this. Jesus knew what humans would do with their knowledge. Jesus I believe knew he was going to be murdered by humans and tortured by humans. I dont think anything that happened to Jesus came as much of a surprise. God knew Jesus was going to be murdered and tortured. Satan needed to ask the LORD Gods permission to hassel Job, and The Lord God said, go for it, and Job coped heaps of crap.

I like believing that God knows everything and everything comes from God. This offers me comfort. This thought allows me to visualize resting my head in the energy of my All Knowing Creator my Father/Mother and know that He has everything under control because He knows every outcome of mans simple mind. This is my faith and I love it. I am dancing in Gods life, dancing for God, and praying for love and peace on earth, that Gods children continue to wake up and see what they are manifesting through their actions. I believe we can co create with God, we can co create in our personal world things we want to believe in. I have created a space of love in my life. Others choose to manifest all kinds of saddness, drink and drug, have accidents, abuse people with a foul mouth and horrid thoughts, manifesting negative energies, and the rest. I attract wonderful people around me, I have asisted God in co creating my life with people who love God and believe in loving thoughts

your thinking is filled with assumptions

Originally posted by flashesofblue
....I believe that God made man in hIs image, Male and Female He created them,

what does it mean to be in ones image? i noticed in another thread that you took this to mean that we are also immortal.

where do you draw the line? does this also mean that we are all powerful? does this mean that god is flesh? does this mean that god can lie?

there are many notable differences between GOD and us. so obviously, being made in god's image does not imply that we are exactly like god.

and God knew that they would eat the fruit that would open their eyes and that they would know good and evil.

so therefore knowing means that its part of his plan?

freewill creates a wildcard. even god has chosen to acknowledge the choices we make. does he know what choices we will make? most certainly, but this doesnt mean that our choices are always in line with god's desires. this is why freewill creates "problems"

but lucky for us, god is a good problem solver. he is able to work around wrong decisions and return things to the purpose he originally had.

I believe that if that is the case that good and evil came from God.

assumption, you are adding things that dont necessarily add up. knowing something is going to happen is different than being responsible for it.

If you think that Satan created evil then you are saying that satan can create, making him a god. I dont think that is correct. I believe that everything came from God, and we as well as angels do with this knowledge what we do.

if "god" means "mighty one" then satan is a god.

2 cor 4:[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I beleive that there is absolutely no limitation on Gods knowledge and this include all knowledge of the future. God does not interfer because God gave us free will.

exactly. which is why it can be said that some do not accept the will of god. some people work against it. but it doesnt automatically mean that it was planned.

We all believe what we believe and I feel it very presumptuous of some to have the audacity to say that my belief is incorrect. What makes you so right and me so wrong?

because you are talking about the god of the bible, as such, your information should come from god's word. its not simply a matter of personal opinion

to place human analogies with God, like car trips or court cases is in my opinion a basic human flaw. To draw God with a white flowing beard sitting on a cloud is a ridiculous concept and really stuffed up Childrens minds with visual illusions of our Almighty Creator, our Father/Mother God. To even draw Jesus Christ as a white man just shows how ridiculous humans can think, consider where he came from and the color of the skin of those people from that region....mmm humans.

and yet you are so quick to put out that we are made in god's image.

so which is it? is are we able to relate to god, or is he indescribable?

Originally posted by flashesofblue
My opinion is that when God said that man (male and female) knew good and evil then they had that knowledge. This knowledge came from God, as we are created in God's image...Whats so wrong with that.

because god himself explains what exactly that meant when he drove them from the garden. it meant independence from god. it meant that they were going to make their own decisions without god's guidance. in this way, they were like gods, answering to noone.

god wasnt rewarding them. why would he condemn them, curse them and then reward them with a special knowledge?

in a way, it was sarcasm. the same way a parent might congratulate a rebellious teenager for "knowing it all"

I like believing that God knows everything and everything comes from God. This offers me comfort. This thought allows me to visualize resting my head in the energy of my All Knowing Creator my Father/Mother and know that He has everything under control because He knows every outcome of mans simple mind. This is my faith and I love it. I am dancing in Gods life, dancing for God, and praying for love and peace on earth, that Gods children continue to wake up and see what they are manifesting through their actions. I believe we can co create with God, we can co create in our personal world things we want to believe in. I have created a space of love in my life. Others choose to manifest all kinds of saddness, drink and drug, have accidents, abuse people with a foul mouth and horrid thoughts, manifesting negative energies, and the rest. I attract wonderful people around me, I have asisted God in co creating my life with people who love God and believe in loving thoughts

its a wonderful belief, but what about those less fortunate than you? you seem to have it together, which is good but there are many others that do not have peace

"..and yet you are so quick to put out that we are made in god's image".

Miriam, that is in the bible, which you know quite well...Gen 1:26...come on... why be so defensive,

as written once by a great and wise person something like when there is peace in a persons mind there is peace in his house, peace in his house there is peace in his street, peace in his street, peace in his suburb...peace in his country...peace in his world.. people know what they are doin...they know if its right or wrong, that knowledge is ours from God,

Gen 2: 22 "...behold the man has become like us to know good and evil"....

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[edit on 20-5-2009 by flashesofblue]

Originally posted by flashesofblue
Miriam, that is in the bible, which you know quite well...Gen 1:26...come on... why be so defensive,

yes, but apparently to what degree that statement is true is a matter of convenience.