Why are we interested in these topics?

Good question.

I'm interested in the topics we discuss on ATS, because they prove that there is more to life than the 9-5, or religion, or science, or anything that society accepts as "normal".

I guess I'm a rebel at heart.

So much of society these days is "give up" culture, where people think we know everything, that we're the be all and end all of the universe, and those people tend to repeatedly put their faith in government and institutions that continually find new ways to fail in epic manners at their assigned tasks.

And its only by talking about things, educating, making people aware, sticking to facts and being civilised that any progress at all is going to be made.

One day, enough of us will be talking about this stuff that we might actually bring something good to the world.

One day.

Maybe.

I can hope.

Does the interest in seeking out the answers to so many vital questions, have any thing to do with 'Remembering' ?

Is it that, the more enlightened we become the more we begin to recall knowledge we lost somewhere along the path ?

Is the drive, Not to bust a fraud, but to weed out false memories, subsequently recollecting our mistakes of the past ?

The identification of what went wrong, so as to Not repeat the same bad judgment again ?

The realization that we must pursue life as a journey not a means to an end.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by azureskys]

reply to post by franspeakfree

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Its funny because I have been in the same boat,

Me too...this is not the first time I've discussed it with friends.... but it's the first time I've Vehemently defended my views, albeit in a humorous and "fun" way....for about 10 years.

A few of my friends "back in the day" were in to these subjects, but i guess life, responsibilities, mainstream ideas and all manner of things"knock" the beliefs out of people.
It's fascinating to me that all of us here all obviously don't fall in to that category and probably have been interested in these subjects for quite a while.

I know people "awaken" everyday..... but really, the majority of us members on here, have been interested for a long while right?

I am no prophet but the way I see it if you speak to someone and they ridicule you from the beginning and then you throw fact after fact at them they have no where to go except ponder the reality of these things.

I know what you mean... and i know the other friends i mentioned in my OP definitely went away at least considering some of the things we'd said.
If they didn't then it's all good...i don't mind, honestly.... it's what makes us human....we are all different.

For example my mother, excepted tarot reading and started experimenting herself and taking classes on crystal healing, my dad once threw me out of the house for invoking the devil, (of course it wasn't the devil just something outside of the box) however, now he sees psychics and goes to spiritualist church, my sister turned to spiritualism after she saw things whilst we were 'chilling out' my brother is facinated with 2012 now I have no idea why we never ever talked about it. The funny thing is all these people laughed and ridiculed me for years oh how things change.

I'm glad you managed to get your family interested and involved in your way of thinking and your passion.
But that's one of the key things.... now that they have experienced these things for themselves, they now know that there are things that are different or paranormal..... and it actually takes an experience to get someone interested or to make them realize....well, most of the time anyway.

There is the flaw IMHO that is the main reason why we are in this mess. We all need to think for ourselves and make our own choices and not be influenced by others.

I couldn't agree more.

You must realize your own truth.

As the quote from Nietzsche says in my sig

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses."




[edit on 13/5/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by Kailassa

Originally posted by Kailassa
Peer group pressure is enormously powerful.
Many people won't listen to "conspiracy theories" because they are afraid they might believe it and be labelled as nuts.

I think it's partly fear, partly ignorance and partly because the credibility of conspiracy theorists in general is so low or non-existent.
People find it hard to take some of it seriously and the MSM and Disinformation(ists) have done such a good job of rubbishing and ridiculing the field.... that many just see the whole things as crazy.

Not seeing that there are many areas and sub-genres attached to conspiracies.

The more we can gently air our knowledge in a way that is not too weird sounding, the more the balance will change.

That is what we here at ATS try to do.
And i think that anyone who is serious about this stuff tries to do the same .. It's the Galactic Federation of Light and nonsense similar to that (check Infaredman's signature) that damage the credibility of the UFO stuff.
And there are similar groups and people tarnishing the image of every area of conspiracy theories.

Perhaps one day it will be the people who swallow the official line on everything who will be ridiculed and we'll be mainstream.
The pendulum never stops.

Let's hope so....

And to quote Outkast.

"Think it is when it ain't all peaches and cream
that's why some are found floating face down in the main stream"




[edit on 13/5/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by neformore
Good question.
I'm interested in the topics we discuss on ATS, because they prove that there is more to life than the 9-5, or religion, or science, or anything that society accepts as "normal".
I guess I'm a rebel at heart.

That is true, we know there is more to life than meets the eye, it's just proving it to everyone else.
And it is extremely interesting that so much of what is considered "fact" or "normal" by society, is probably as questionable and unproven as some of the things we discuss here.

So much of society these days is "give up" culture, where people think we know everything, that we're the be all and end all of the universe, and those people tend to repeatedly put their faith in government and institutions that continually find new ways to fail in epic manners at their assigned tasks.

I know, Inertia and apathy are truly among the biggest problems we face in our world.
And the ego is a troubling thing too...

And its only by talking about things, educating, making people aware, sticking to facts and being civilised that any progress at all is going to be made.
One day, enough of us will be talking about this stuff that we might actually bring something good to the world.
One day.
Maybe.

I can hope.

Yep, i totally agree mate.
I hope one day that people all over will be working together to uncover the mysteries of our universe and our lives.... and on a grand scale too and conversations of these topics and subjects will be commonplace .... like it's "the norm" you know?

"You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one " JL.

[edit on 13/5/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by azureskys

Originally posted by azureskys
Does the interest in seeking out the answers to so many vital questions, have any thing to do with 'Remembering' ?
Is it that, the more enlightened we become the more we begin to recall knowledge we lost somewhere along the path ?

Like intrinsic knowledge.... yes, i think deep down it does have something to do with that.
And the remembering how we used to be as a species, before all the distractions and gadgets, divisions and problems.


life is something of a spiritual pilgrimage to the soul of oneself. - Me

Is the drive, Not to bust a fraud, but to weed out false memories, subsequently recollecting our mistakes of the past ?
The identification of what went wrong, so as to Not repeat the same bad judgment again ?
The realization that we must pursue life as a journey not a means to an end.
[edit on 13-5-2009 by azureskys]

Yes, i think that also has something to do with it.
I think subconsciously you never let yourself forget your mistakes or bad things you've done.... so on the path to enlightenment, you're always striving to better yourself and not repeat mistakes.

[edit on 13/5/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by MightyAl

..."A child came to me with signs of abuse. Of course the mother wouldn't tell us she abused her child. So is it a theory or a fact? The "evildoer" naturally won't admit anything, but anyone can see that the bruises are a result of child abuse." In the end the child died, as no one had the chance to stop the mother who also killed her first child...

I think this is a brilliant example of how people think - sometimes

there are times when you are looking at something directly - and the truth of it is unavoidable

some people can see it and say what it is (your wife) - but many times people see something and their thinking turns it into something more palatable - or makes it disappear entirely

we tell ourselves we're over thinking - over analyzing - or our imaginations have carried us away - and so the problem is allowed to go away

which clearly makes any problem easier to handle - short term

everything about critical thinking is interesting - when we use it - when we choose not to

but the flip side is - how DO we know when we've lost contact with reason?

how does an individual come to realize it's time to pull in the reins on speculation and reconsider what they think they know?

I don't have an answer to that - as someone who "over-thinks" it's just one more thing I think about



[edit on 5/13/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by neformore


:-)

And its only by talking about things, educating, making people aware, sticking to facts and being civilised that any progress at all is going to be made.

One day, enough of us will be talking about this stuff that we might actually bring something good to the world.

One day. Maybe. I can hope.

Neformore - here is where I'm going to wear my heart on my sleeve and just go all "Rah! Rah! ATS!" on you

there are probably a thousand reasons why this place does as well as it does - but I think, maybe because we are too close to it at times - we don't really see what's going on in here

this conversation we're having right now is one good example - it's not just about having a place to talk about these strange, strange things...

it's about the balance that comes from opposing points of view

that balance brings a certain amount of credibility to even the most incredible topics

for people who ordinarily would never allow themselves to even consider certain things - because they're outrageous - ridiculous - these discussions make it possible for them to not only consider them - but jump in and discuss them

it doesn't matter if in the end they still think they're useless ideas, theories, experiences - they've become part of the process of discovery - of breaking things down - making them real enough to even talk about

out loud :-)

I know none of what I'm saying is anything you don't already know -

but, have you ever wondered - really wondered - how much influence ATS might have? (I know you have)

How far - how wide?

I do

there's no way to see the reality of it - not even with a really first rate survey :-)

but - I'll bet it's farther and wider than we think

short version: I think this place has already done a lot of good


[edit on 5/13/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

My best friends old room mates used to actually beg us to sit down and just talk to them about this stuff. They admitted they were oblivious to the world and very much wanted to learn more. One was really open to us but really closed minded and dumb at the same time. The other came from a very strict Seventh Day Aventist background and because most of our debates were more religious (as me and my best friend are both very Anti-God) it got pretty heated.

But most of my friends think we are freaks and nerds for talking about this and not UFC or American Eagle shirts. We keep telling them, if we didnt' all know each other our whole lives we would not be friends. It just upsets me that they are all so closed minded, so willing to shoot everything down without a thougth or take everything they are told at face value.

We were talking about Peta the other day and my friend was like WTF are you two nerds talking about, your making stuff up. And to think, he fixes airplanes for a living. Le Sigh

reply to post by theendisnear69


a lot of people really DO! for example, my wife doesnt like to talk about stuff like this cause she can see the truth but it scares the living crap out of her.

I think people ridicule things like this simply because to them it's not "cool" or "it's too strange" or "you shouldn't question things"

A similar example is with some people if you talk to them about an intelligent topic, they will look at you funny and will think your a "geek" or something etc

It's all about this "social" state of mind people have these days that make them wityhout even realising think being "dumb" is cool.

It sometimes seems like they are brainwashed to some hidden rules of what is socially acceptable. e.g do not question goverment, do not talk about intelligent topics. Just listen to rap/pop music, have a few drinks, and talk about gossip or your gonna look strange.

So in the end it really depends on who you hang around/talk with.




[edit on 13-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by blupblup


I know we've talked on this before but here's me.

I always speak my mind on this subject, and don't care what people think about me because of it. I always do it from my own perspective and is never my intention to offend others by thinking there argument isn't plausable - look at it from all angles with an open mind and you can be surprised what a group of people with different ideas can produce . Crazy, Kooky, out-there...not bothered. I would rather discuss my thoughts than lie to myself or hide what i think. I like to bring up topics that make people think outside the box, skeptism is good - as is debate, you can air all possibilties you can think of, debunk them and even have eureka moments - it all good. I like people to criticise my theories, it gives me an opportunity for me to explain why i think the possibilty exists at all - if they find flaws, thats good too - it means were that little bit closer to stumbling upon some truths. Only problem is i found - i stop people from working, as i said even the top dogs, they can't resist giving they're 2 cents.



[edit on 13-5-2009 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
The other came from a very strict Seventh Day Aventist background and because most of our debates were more religious (as me and my best friend are both very Anti-God) it got pretty heated.

Yeah...one of my good friends is very religious too...believes in the whole "second coming" and all that.
We've just agreed to not talk or debate religion... it's easier that way... we've had some pretty heated debates too

But most of my friends think we are freaks and nerds for talking about this and not UFC or American Eagle shirts. We keep telling them, if we didnt' all know each other our whole lives we would not be friends. It just upsets me that they are all so closed minded, so willing to shoot everything down without a thougth or take everything they are told at face value.

And yeah.... i was discussing this recently and feel the same.
Many of my friends i have nothing or very little in common with....just the length of time we've been friends....experiences we've shared and the bonds we've built up.


It's a strange thing indeed.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
A similar example is with some people if you talk to them about an intelligent topic, they will look at you funny and will think your a "geek" or something etc
It's all about this "social" state of mind people have these days that make them wityhout even realising think being "dumb" is cool.
[edit on 13-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

This is something I've always noticed....it's like it's cool to be thick?

The more stupid you are....the cooler and more acceptable you are?
Is this a society thing....?
A status thing...?


I just have never understood this mentality at all...

Originally posted by MCoG1980
[ I would rather discuss my thoughts than lie to myself or hide what i think.

I think I've always been the same way.
But as time has gone on and I've got older....i feel less worried about spreading my ideas and thoughts around.

I think some peoples minds are made up no matter what evidence you present or what angle you try.
But as you say....i will never shy away from my own beliefs or even talking about them,.....


I'm just generally not the one to start the conversation now

Originally posted by blupblup
[

I'm just generally not the one to start the conversation now

Depends on who your talking to though i guess to whether you bring up the that sort of topic. Me, i can't help myself, tis like i'm obsessed, but with allsorts not just these topics - many others too - i'll admit it - i'm a gobsh!te I guess that is partly why i think ATS is so cool - i can rant and rave as much as i like if i choose too - gives everyone else a rest from it

Originally posted by MCoG1980

Depends on who your talking to though i guess to whether you bring up the that sort of topic.

That's true.
You have to pick and choose wisely.
I have the odd person here and there i can talk to... which helps.

Me, i can't help myself, tis like i'm obsessed, but with allsorts not just these topics - many others too - i'll admit it - i'm a gobsh!te

I guess that is partly why i think ATS is so cool - i can rant and rave as much as i like if i choose too - gives everyone else a rest from it

Good on you though.... at least you willing to put it out there and just say whatever you want to and feel like saying.

And yes.... ATS is good in that respect... there is always someone to hear your thoughts and always someone for you to listen to/read as well.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
but, have you ever wondered - really wondered - how much influence ATS might have? (I know you have)

How far - how wide?

I do

All the time.

Its the little things that make a difference. ATS could well have helped someone come to terms with an idea, an issue or a belief system they've never encountered before.

Its possible that the type of things people write on here have changed opinions and even lives.

Its even possible that - and I know this is stretching it a little, but its true nonetheless - by exposing a scandal, or coverup, the fate of thousands of people may be changed.

Words are powerful things, knowledge is a powerful thing. The internet - where someones idea can literally go viral and be on ATS one day, and in millions of peoples inbox the next is so powerful that it has governments scared to the point where they actively censor it in some places, and are looking to censor it even in the "free" world. Its akin to a global conciousness, and sooner or later one of us is going to say "hey, what about..?" on a subject and the whole damn world might agree.

Its fun, and a little scary at the same time

I was going to say something cool about the Socratic method, and how you could question those nay-sayers opinions and turn them around until they didn't even remember their own beliefs......but then I remembered he was executed. Maybe that was a bad plan!

Honestly, I am lucky to have a very intelligent brother, and a religious father. We can have some heated discussions, and sometimes my wife, or our friends over hear a piece of it and they don't understand.

I try to not push excess information on anyone. They may not be ready to dis-trust what they have always known, or they may just be so dang optimistic (like my wife) that nothing you tell them will matter. I answer questions for the ill-informed and I let them lead the conversation. I also try to stick to verifiable facts and sources and stay away from more obscure theories. This is usually enough to put the conversation on solid footing, sometimes people will contact me later for follow-up information, or clarification, or places they can learn more. It is rewarding if you become a resource for "alternative" news, and not just a nut!

reply to post by getreadyalready

I try to not push excess information on anyone. They may not be ready to dis-trust what they have always known, or they may just be so dang optimistic (like my wife) that nothing you tell them will matter. I answer questions for the ill-informed and I let them lead the conversation.

That's the thing... it's hard to change peoples opinions in it's something they've always "known" or believed.
It's hard to accept you may be wrong or you may have been lied to.

And yes... i like to let someone else do most of the talking or asking of questions if i do discuss these things.
That way, you're not forcing your views or challenging theirs.

I also try to stick to verifiable facts and sources and stay away from more obscure theories. This is usually enough to put the conversation on solid footing, sometimes people will contact me later for follow-up information, or clarification, or places they can learn more. It is rewarding if you become a resource for "alternative" news, and not just a nut!

Yep...me too.
As I've said in the other posts, it is some of the more out-there and crazy theories that have helped to ruin the image of conspiracy theorists and the theories they believe in general.

But as you say, if you treat some of them more as cover-ups and alternative news stories, which they are, rather than conspiracy theories... people are more accepting and open to listen.