Can Anyone debunk this?

Originally posted by Max_TO
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

I would think that whenever one translates from one language to another there will always be some , " discrepancies "

You think???????

I thought you knew what you were talking about and now I get "probably" for one answer and this for another??? Yes, they all have discrepancies because each one was changed because English does not have words or even phrases that match uo so they had ti just guess. Iguess your god saw all of that coming right?

Okay how do I put this again, each character may not be the same in English but not every code will be lost. The 1611 version is the best English translation, and the only one the researchers trust to use. King James edited the format of the tongues not the meaning of the book. Therefore there must still be codes in the book, but on a more limited scale. Is that enough? I used probably in a sense that codes would remain while others would be lost in translation.

Thats a handy way to cover all your bases.

Free will would leave possible outcomes rather than set path. Only the plain text is a set path. We trigger the Biblical Apocalypse. The codes are there to prove the divine authorship not to predict things. I get my insight on events to come from somewhere else. It's just interesting to see the outcomes in the book or to put them in to see what can be found. If the Bible claimed to be written by aliens, people would love it. The book itself claims to be authored by God, so people ignore it.

reply to post by watchtheashes


When you speak of the 1611 KJV of the bible are you speaking about its translation of the Torah , or the whole bible in general ?

Just adding my 2 cents. Sorry, I only read the first 4 or 5 pages.

Why disqualify something just because it is done elsewhere? So what?

Why can there not be codes in all kinds of literature?

I don't know about the absolute relevancy of these particular codes but I was familiar with it. I personally see "clues" all through the Bible and it is staggering. Yes, there is most definitely a story behind the story with the Bible, even with all its thousands of issues.

reply to post by watchtheashes

The 1611 version is the best English translation, and the only one the researchers trust to use. King James edited the format of the tongues not the meaning of the book. Therefore there must still be codes in the book, but on a more limited scale. Is that enough? I used probably in a sense that codes would remain while others would be lost in translation.

Actually, this isn't true. It is thought to be the most inaccurate of Bibles. I won't go into it here (I have done so already on too many posts). Let it stand with this point: Erasmus' edition was the foundation for the KJV and he wasn't the least pleased with the worst copies that he was handed by the Church. He had to follow their doctrines that he said were not in the earlier copies. There are no originals of any writings. This is a misnomer.

Check out some of Bart Ehrman's books to get better insight.

Would this stop God? He allowed it to be faulty but within those faults can be some incredible nuggets that the authors didn't have a clue what they were writing or they probably would have goofed them up also.


Regardless, the Bible is one incredible book for being a mystery book, with many hidden clues throughout. If God decided to do this he would have no problem mixing them in with inaccurate verses.

Just my two cents...I do believe in the divine inspiration of the bible and therefore it is easy for me to believe in the codes. But for the sake of proving the codes and their divine creation, in my opinion it would have been easier for others to believe or understand without the confusion of including all the other translations of the bible. Just by looking alone at the original Hebrew Old Testament and the codes within, you can get the idea of what you are trying to tell everybody. When you start bringing into the equation all the translations, then naturally it also brings in questions and doubt and causes even more needed explanations. Keeping it simple makes it easier to explain. I do not believe in using the codes to predict. But I do believe they serve as an example of the infinite wisdom of God and how intricate and beautiful the word of God is.

reply to post by watchtheashes


In a some what related matter , have you ever herd of a one Stan Tenen ?

I think you might find is work to be of interest . I will post a quote from one of his sites , followed by a link . I would be interested to hear your thoughts on him and his work .

"In 1968 Stan Tenen discovered a pattern in the arrangement of letters in the first verse of the Hebrew text of Genesis. He spent the next 35 years investigating the meaning of that pattern. This incredible journey of scientific, religious and mathematical discovery... "
www.meetingtent.com...

Originally posted by watchtheashes

Thats a handy way to cover all your bases.

Free will would leave possible outcomes rather than set path.

Sounds to me like an easy way out. "This stuff might happen and it might not so ignore it or read it or whatever. You know, free will and all.

This page might help explain what I'm trying to point out a little better.

www.biblecodedigest.com...

www.biblecodedigest.com...



[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

reply to post by watchtheashes


You do realize that if you can't explain it then you don't understand it right?

I understand this quite fine. You'll get all the physical and visual proof you need of what I have been saying. It is a matter of time.

give this post a star posted on 5/24/2009 @ 01:41 PM single this post "quote"REPLY TO: Originally posted by watchtheashes Thats a handy way to cover all your bases. Free will would leave possible outcomes rather than set path. Sounds to me like an easy way out.

Sounds to me like a way to say "Don't try to predict the future just because God encoded all the possible ways you could go. Take it as supplemental to the claim of the Bible's authorship."

I simply check out my insight on the future with the codes to see if it indeed could happen.

reply to post by watchtheashes



They have found these same type of predictions in war and peace using this program. What does this tell you either war and peace was is a devine document authored by god or any writings with sufficient text will produce these results. It has been statically proved that results to be expected do to the rules for the codes there is so many allowable variables. It allows backwards forwards left right up down diagonal and spaced between other words,Which means the program does everything possible to find a word.

Actually the only reason it goes those directions is because the skips change in relation to the direction. So at skip -3404 the text would be running downward at that many letters in between and the position of the matrix columns would determine if it was a diagonal or straight term. The clusters and relation to the surface text after the fact is what is intriguing as are the odds.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
Actually the only reason it goes those directions is because the skips change in relation to the direction. So at skip -3404 the text would be running downward at that many letters in between and the position of the matrix columns would determine if it was a diagonal or straight term. The clusters and relation to the surface text after the fact is what is intriguing as are the odds. [/quote?

Professor Menachem Cohen, a celebrated Bible scholar at Bar-Ilan University, has criticized Witztum et al. on two counts: (1) there are several other Hebrew versions of Genesis for which ELS does not produce statistically significant results; and (2) the appellations given to the Great Men in Israel was inconsistent and arbitrary. Other critics, such as Brendan McKay, have done their own analysis of War and Peace with remarkably different results than those reported by Witztum et al. Many critics, however, have done little more than use ELS to find names, dates, and so on in various books, a feat already known by even the weakest of statisticians to be unremarkable. Drosnin once said, "When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby-Dick, I'll believe them." McKay promptly produced an ELS analysis of Moby-Dick predicting not only Indira Ghandi's assassination, but the assassinations of Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, and Yitzhak Rabin, as well as the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Mathematician David Thomas did an ELS on Genesis and found the words "code" and "bogus" close together not once but 60 times. What are the odds of that happening? Thomas also did an ELS analysis on Drosnin's Bible Code II: The Countdown (2002) and found the message "The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax."* Does this mean that God put in a code to reveal that there is no code?

Tolstoy's War and Peace is exactly what this experiment also uses. They use Moby Dick as a control text. Why has no one read the posts?

I'm trying to say that a non-encoded text would not form pictures, maps, diagrams etc all the while embedded in such a short space of text and sentences of information within that short space and over 1,400 ELS terms.



THE BEST SKEPTIC MATRIX IS FROM WAR AND PEACE and is 7 terms and shows no design and no sentences with 30+ letters.

EDIT:
While a the best Biblical matrix is 1,400 terms in chapter 53 of Isaiah. and contains just those things. Sentences, structure,correct grammar of the sentences, absolute minimum skips, relation to surface text, pictures, patterns, message, tells a story, etc.

[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

Originally posted by watchtheashes
I'm trying to say that a non-encoded text would not form pictures, maps, diagrams etc all the while embedded in such a short space of text and sentences of information within that short space and over 1,400 ELS terms.



THE BEST SKEPTIC MATRIX IS FROM WAR AND PEACE and is 7 terms and shows no design and no sentences with 30+ letters.

EDIT:
While a the best Biblical matrix is 1,400 terms in chapter 53 of Isaiah. and contains just those things. Sentences, structure,correct grammar of the sentences, absolute minimum skips, relation to surface text, pictures, patterns, message, tells a story, etc.

[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

here is your answer


Patternicity: Finding meaningful patterns in meaningless noise

Yes I am very aware of patterns in noise. This however makes music.

No really.

www.research-systems.com...