Can Anyone debunk this?

What exactly is the code in laymans terms? Even calculus, complex mathmatical algorithms and nuclear physics can be summarized so that those without that knowledge can understand the theory behind them. Explain the code please?

reply to post by amazing


In short the Bible Code is the allegation that hidden messages can be found in the text of the Bible specifically the Hebrew Torah by skipping letters at varying intervals but keeping the same interval for each term. For example skipping every 70th letter in the beginning of each book of the Torah spells Torah in a forward motion. The more advanced and complex the matrices and probability is the less likely it is there by accident. In the instance of the most recent findings it is undeniable it is not there by accident. Please see the Original Post for details. Review the information and you can decide what to make of it.

Originally posted by watchtheashes

you gave me Michael Drosnin type examples. Those are pathetic. Every researcher knows that those are all statistically irrelevant. Research is way past that point now.

I recall Drosnin's method worked equally well in predicting using things like a 19th Century romance novel or the Hoboken NJ phone book.

Mathematical formulae applied to find hidden meanings (which aren't really there) has been popular since at least Isaac Newton who wasted the second half of his career on it.

A minor but substantial growth industry among Christians unwilling to accept that certain sacred texts are an assembly of Middle Eastern myths rather than the writings of a Supreme Deity.

Dream on.

Mike

For those interested here is a link to a site that sells bible code software

www.biblecodes.com...

Also worth mentioning lol , I think they also included moby dick as one of the books that can be searched using the code

reply to post by watchtheashes

You can believe what you want to believe. That's choice. Its an amazing thing. I'm simply trying to say this has not been debunked as far as I'm aware and that it debunked the debunkers. So if anyone can debunk or wishes to refute it they are welcome. This might not be your run of the mill photo of a flying saucer kind of proof of something, but it is still proof of something. I just happen to believe in a bigger picture.

Just to clear-up your smug and arrogant views of what you think I believe; I did not even suggest that Aliens or whatever had to do with anything I had posted.
Interesting that it seems that you do not know the entirity of your bible!
If you did, and if this debate ever touched on an alien scenario; I'd tell you to go read Ezekiel. However, like a lot of die-hard brainwashed bible bashers, you latch on to a little knowledge; and dismiss what is not favourable to your arguement.
But; Oh I only believe the New testament "thats the word of Jesus"
And what you dont have tangiable evidence for; you always have the concept of faith to fall back on, in a predictably patronizing fashion
Oh and also; there have been videos produce, debunking this bogus bible code
I am in sincere agreeance with the above poster whom said: "you may as well go decode Moby Dick!

reply to post by watchtheashes


I guess your faith is not strong enough to answer my questions since you made me ask twice and then just ignored them. Thank you for proving that you only believe what you want to believe and if anyone can prove you wrong then the fingers go in the ears dont they.

reply to post by evil incarnate


Well said Evil, I guess you and I are just not brainwashed enough
We still have those undesirable powers of logical deduction!
the bible code: although a great seller (so was Bambi), has been disproven a while back.

Did anybody even look at the links that I provided? What the heck? The whole reason I even posted this is so you would stop using the ridiculous notion that you can find codes in moby dick or any book. The REAL codes are in the Bible. Moby Dick is worthless for codes. Did you not even look into the experiment. Just because simple codes can be found in a large text does not invalidate the Bible codes. Bible codes tell a story sentences usually refer to God in first-deity format and are all concise and not cluttered. If you can't provide some data close to the importance of the data I provided then it's not worth discussing. I want to see sentences and design from a "monkey text." That would be noteworthy as debunking in this particular instance. Using Moby Dick now is like a get out of jail free card, because if you look at the links, you can see which book is encoded and which book is not.

In short I would love to discuss this issue, but the first post is an experiment that uses War and Peace and Moby Dick and such as "control texts" and the Bible as the test text. Funny how the non code-proponents like to not mention that Moby Dick and War and Peace are included with the software as control texts. That means you can search in them find results and compare it to the Bible statistically like it was meant to be done. Words crossing words mean nothing unless they tell a story. The Bible tells a story while Moby Dick is like a toddler trying to write his first words. They don't compare.

In my original post I posted this sentence.

All I'm saying is that "you can find codes like that in Mother Goose and Moby Dick" doesn't fly anymore.

Which can be explained by this page alone.

www.biblecodedigest.com...

Code Skeptics' Arguments Trashed Ever since the first Bible codes were announced, skeptics have been saying, "Oh, well, you can also find codes like that in books like War and Peace and Moby Dick." We took the time to examine this notion and the best example of it that the skeptics have been able to come up with. The results of our research have completely blown away their theory.

Above quotation was whole basis for the experiment.

reply to post by Max_TO


Exactly right my friend. You can search Moby Dick included with the software because they're not afraid of that. If the skeptics ever released a program they would have to leave the Bible out of it. Otherwise they would be the ones "shooting themselves in the foot."

reply to post by watchtheashes


Perhaps you will b as so kind as to answer a question for me , as best as you can of course . How do you feel about the bible code when the very text being searched , the bible , makes it very clear that divination and see sayers are something to be avoided ?

Also , John 18:20
Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

As I have said , I find the issue of the bible code to be of interest I am just not sure how much weight we should be giving it . My understanding is that ones faith is supposed to be based on exactly that , faith .

Myself , I am glad you started this topic and have given us all a place to deuces the issue of the bible code but you must understand that it in and of its self can't be used as proof of God's existence .

Back to my question , if you can offer your best answer to the question that I asked it would be much appreciated , thanks .

reply to post by Max_TO

How do you feel about the bible code when the very text being searched , the bible , makes it very clear that divination and see sayers are something to be avoided ?

People think predicting the future is prohibited because of demonic astrology and the like. This is God's Word for mankind. So it would contain everything. The book itself is a book of prophecy. The code is rather not set futures but a possible outcome based on our free will. For example there are two matrices on the George Bush and Kerry election. We know that we don't pick the presidents, but the choice was encoded. It could have been Bush or Kerry. Free will of us and the Illuminati picked Bush. In the last days things will play out as written but how we get there is up to us. Unfortunately the choices are a little bit morel limited when it comes to end times. Jesus says no man knows the day or hour. Not the angels in heaven but only the Father. Day or hour. He could have just as easily said time. He specifically chose to say day or hour.

My Answer or the Bible's own answer:

1 Corinthians 14:5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."

Numbers 11:29 But Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD'S people were prophets, that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!"

1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

I haven't claimed to be a prophet. I just look into the code because of fascination. To think that a book is written so precise that it is also encoded at the same time is wondrous. My speculation on the future comes from elsewhere.

EDIT:

In the Gospels it is said:

Mark 4:22 "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad."

Matthew 10:26 "Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known."

Luke 12:2 "For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known."

Of course except the exact day and hour of the Return of Christ.

[edit on 5/17/2009 by watchtheashes]

reply to post by watchtheashes


Thank you for your answer .

May I ask , do you have the bible code software ? If so , do you use the hebrew text ?

reply to post by Max_TO


I use the Hebrew text, the English text, and the corresponding control texts to find the same things and see if something is in those. Do you also have the software? I use Code Finder: Millennium Edition rather than the others because it is fast and has the most features. If you use Babylon software with it it helps even more.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
In short I would love to discuss this issue, but...

...not if people are going to directly challenge you on this topic apparently. Is there a reason you refuse to address my questions? You say that you started this thread so that we could all understand this better and yet when I ask simple little questions, you ignore them. Do I need to ask a 4th time? Do I need to use different words? Are you just trying to get people who will believe BS to talk to you, perhaps buy a book? Why am I not left out when you left it at unanswered questions.

For a few pages, I truly believed that you believed this stuff but now I see that you are as much a fraud as the code is since you cannot stand up to a few questions. I am sure you new matrix would not stand up any better to a little questioning.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
reply to post by Max_TO

 

How do you feel about the bible code when the very text being searched , the bible , makes it very clear that divination and see sayers are something to be avoided ?

People think predicting the future is prohibited because of demonic astrology and the like. This is God's Word for mankind. So it would contain everything.

Actually, people think it because it is wrong.

When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or who consults the dead.

(Deuteronomy 18:9-14).

Do not practice divination or sorcery (Leviticus 19:26).

Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds (Ezekiel 13:20).

The idols speak deceit, diviners see visions that lie; they tell dreams that are false, they give comfort in vain. Therefore the people wander like sheep oppressed for lack of a shepherd (Zechariah 10:2).

"So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty (Malachi 3:5).
Bible verses

The bible is pretty clear that using numbers and letters to divine future events is strictly prohibited. There is also the fact that now, people like you hold the almighty code up as even more important than the bible and I think it is pretty clear on that as well.

The codes are a part of God's Word so they are not divination. Plus what ritual am I performing to get any insight on the future? I'm not doing hexagrams or a horoscope. God invented the heavens demons just use it for wrong. I just look up topics and find what I can for answers to things that I might inquire or just for the sake of research. Divination of demons not prophecy. Prophecy is fine. The spirit of prophecy is in Jesus Christ and He does not mind if people look into the future. In fact He wishes that more would try to get insight on the things to come to be forewarned, rather than us being taken by surprise. He Himself gave the signs, and the code is there to be revealed otherwise it wouldn't have been.

And what question would you like answered evil incarnate?

reply to post by watchtheashes

I know that Carl Sagan strongly believed that certain 'special numbers' like pi, and e, the natural log, contained 'secrets of the universe.' He felt that 'God' or whomever designed the universe, had 'hidden' or 'encoded' some kind of 'special meaning' into these numbers.

My own view of these ancient texts such as the Bible, and other texts of similar antiquity held sacred by other cultures, is that they originated from some kind of a 'higher power' than mere 'mortal men.'

And in that sense, IMHO it seems not altogether impossible that 'certain secrets' were somehow 'encoded' into these texts as well.

Now, on the other hand, a paper published in 1999, Solving the Bible Code Puzzle, seems to prove that at least one aspect of Bible codes is nonsense. -

Statistical Science publishes Bible Codes Refutation

A paper of Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg in this journal in 1994 made the extraordinary claim that the Hebrew text of the Book of Genesis encodes events which did not occur until millennia after the text was written. In reply, we argue that Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg's case is fatally defective, indeed that their result merely reflects on the choices made in designing their experiment and collecting the data for it. We present extensive evidence in support of that conclusion. We also report on many new experiments of our own, all of which failed to detect the alleged phenomenon.

Source : Australian National University

Originally posted by watchtheashes
The codes are a part of God's Word so they are not divination.

Convenient excuse, think your god will buy it?

Plus what ritual am I performing to get any insight on the future?

There is no ritual clause. It simply includes divination.

Ever going to answer my questions? You spend so much time running in circles here but only seem to swat at the low hanging fruit. Shall I lean?


[edit on 17-5-2009 by evil incarnate]