Draft/Armed Forces Question

Originally posted by Ninjorp
In the last ten yers..

The cruise missle hitting the asprin factory in Sudan? Remember?

One cruise missle strike in response to the killings of over

2,000 people in our embasies in Kenya and Tanzania

The bombing the of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade..Ooops? The maps were old. Never mind the Embassy was a PARK a few years before.

That falls into the Yougoslavia category, and it was a mistake.

Iraq has been routinely bombed for the last ten yers.

The weapons you give to Isreal who does quite a bit of bombing with them. Lebannon, Palestine etc.

So if I buy a friend of mine a gun, and HE goes out and kills people its my fault?
This is about our bombing, remember?

The Invasion of Haiti? 1994 - 1995?
Invasion of Hati?, that was an operation in support of the government, and I don't belive any airstrikes were called.

Somalia 1992-1994?
A humanitarian assitance mission in support of the U.N, and again no airstrikes called. There were no more than 4,000 troops and their primary mission was to protect the U.N handout of aid.

You are right about the following, but that is over ten years ago.

Panama - 1989?

Libya, April 1986?

Grenada - 1983

Should we go back a bit in history?

Laos? That country has the distinction of being the most bombed country in history, thanks again to the US. They are STILL people being killed by mines. Cambodia, same thing. God, it goes on and on and on and on.

Originally posted by Ninjorp
Request no having to kill anybody? Jesus man no! When you're drafted you are effectively chattel of the state. You do what they tell you, or they shoot you themselves.

Touch you in boot camp? Yes, they can not only touch you but kick you, punch you, whip you whatever they want.

You WILL do what they want you to. You WILL obey, and after a good amount of brainwashing, you'll come to love it. Relish the killing my boy, you'll froth at the mouth just by the very promise of it.

I'm sure the Canadians will be very welcoming to you.

You have alot of catching up to do, buddy.

First off, hitting, kicking, and beating you are no longer allowed in basic training. They can do other things to torture you, but they cant use thier hand directly on you. They also cant yell at you anymore. Ever hear of the stress card? It was a concept brought in shortly after I had left basic training. Now, basic trainees, if the drill seargant is yelling at you, u hold up a card and make them stop, they have to. Its part of the post clinton castration of the militarty mentality.

Nor do they brainwash you in basic, your indoctrination and ultimate mental submission comes through time.

Originally posted by Ninjorp
Well, there is big difference between TRADING with other countires and BOMBING other countires. Perhaps you were confused by the term I used - business. Ok, I'll make it a little more clear.

There is a good reason people say Business is War. You, my friend, appear quite simple-minded about the entire situation. Nothing acts on its own accord; not War, not Business, people, or their wants and needs. And, for dealing with the idea like it's a simple as "Who are we going to bomb today?", you are playing yourself like a moron...

Not to say that you are, but you are certainly not coming across with whatever point you're trying to make in a convincing fashion.

STOP BOMBING OTHER COUNTRIES!

Crystal?

Ok, now, THAT (as I've said before) is NOT a decision for the soldiers themselves to make. You should do some research into the field you're speaking of before you decide to comment, I think, because with the points you are attempting to make, you are doing a lot of guess-work and you need to speak to someone who knows what they're talking about.

As Skadi said, "You have a lot of catching up to do, buddy."

Originally posted by xenophanes85
Yet another good comeback dz ... I think 'becky' should just keep his/her mouth shut. 'becky', if you wan't to get yourself killed, go ahead. Hell, since you seem to want to force your opinion on all of us moral minded people, why not bitch at your freinds to join you in your immature, overly patriotic, typically American cause. After all, they are right at your itchy fingertips.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

xenophobe

I wasn't addressing you, but if it applies then that's fine.

dz has spouted off about how successful he's been in school, business, and love. One would think that someone so accomplished would be aware of CO status. Yet he comes in here and whines about wanting to sleep in, to be able to disobey orders from superior officers, etc. and wants to know how bad a spanking they are allowed to give him.

I can agree with someone who is a true CO. He isn't a true CO. You seem to relate to that kind of thinking and want to be his buddy. Good for the both of you. You can swap blouses.

You are the type of person who whines about war, and yet will be the first to blame the gov't for not protecting you if another 9/11 happens.

Don't make this about me; I'm not the one who opened this topic. The kid asked what to expect if he acts like that, I'm just telling him. He wants to hear anti-war people rise up and sympathize with him; he won't get any sympathy from me with his attitude.

I know this will be lost on you, but to summarize, if he wants to object on moral or religious grounds, that's fine. If he wants to sleep in, refuse to follow orders, and generally act like a child, that's quite another.

It's all just a matter of opinion I guess 'becky'. If another attack like 9/11 happened, I wouldn't be surprised. We almost deserve it. I even supported the Presidents actions, because like 99.9% of Americans after the WTC attacks, I was angry. Now, two years later, I see we are only digging ourselves deeper into a war hole. I just want for us to stop digging, and one way to make that happen is to NOT join the military.

Originally posted by jsobecky
xenophobe

I wasn't addressing you, but if it applies then that's fine.

dz has spouted off about how successful he's been in school, business, and love. One would think that someone so accomplished would be aware of CO status. Yet he comes in here and whines about wanting to sleep in, to be able to disobey orders from superior officers, etc. and wants to know how bad a spanking they are allowed to give him.

I can agree with someone who is a true CO. He isn't a true CO. You seem to relate to that kind of thinking and want to be his buddy. Good for the both of you. You can swap blouses.

You are the type of person who whines about war, and yet will be the first to blame the gov't for not protecting you if another 9/11 happens.

Don't make this about me; I'm not the one who opened this topic. The kid asked what to expect if he acts like that, I'm just telling him. He wants to hear anti-war people rise up and sympathize with him; he won't get any sympathy from me with his attitude.

I know this will be lost on you, but to summarize, if he wants to object on moral or religious grounds, that's fine. If he wants to sleep in, refuse to follow orders, and generally act like a child, that's quite another.

Why is it you think that in order to be successful you should know what CO status is? That has absolutely nothing to do what anything that I do. Yet magically I should know?

I don't care what a 'true CO' is in your eyes. You don't seem to realize that you don't owe it to this country to die for it. That's why there are taxes. In order to live in this country, I must pay my taxes and dues. I more than pay those. Is this administration worth my life? No. If you seem to think that your life is that useless, that pathetic, that you can just throw it away for some crazy administration, than so be it. Go sign up. Have fun. I'll see you when you get back, if you do.

And this entire post was an objection on moral grounds. You can't seem to grasp that I was simply asking what would happen if I did all that. Read the post and you will realize that in the entire thing, I constantly say that I do not want to ever have to kill another person. I used the examples of sleeping in and all that to ask how far they can go as far as abusing me.

Do I whine about war? Yes. I don't like it. Should the government protect me? Yes. I pay for it. Every paycheck I make, a good portion of it is taken out for the right to live here. Each time I buy something, 6% of the cost is added onto the price for the right to live here. When I get sent letters for jury duty, I serve in jury duty for the right to live here. I do all this, for the right to live here. But when my country, who is doing something that I do not believe in, asks me to go die for it? No, I will not.

You seem to think that we "owe it" to all those that died before us. That's fine, and to an extent I agree with that. But what you fail to grasp is the fact that we can pay them back for what they've done without foolishly giving our lives.

So you haven't answered any questions. Are you in the military? If not, why not? If not, are you willing to be drafted and placed on the front lines? And when the time comes, would you be willing to die?

And please stop calling me a kid. It really is annoying.

Crap. I wish I had that kind of stopping power. Nice yet again. If you want to fight a war so bad 'becky', why not join yourself, get sent over to Iraq, get ambushed, and, assuming you live, get back to us on your stance on the military? Here, how about some motivation and some violent brainwashing to get you started on your emotional journey:

:bash: :bash: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd:

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

Originally posted by xenophanes85
Crap. I wish I had that kind of stopping power. Nice yet again. If you want to fight a war so bad 'becky', why not join yourself, get sent over to Iraq, get ambushed, and, assuming you live, get back to us on your stance on the military? Here, how about some motivation and some violent brainwashing to get you started on your emotional journey:

:bash: :bash:

:bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd:

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

That pretty much sums up military life.....when not in combat.

Just wondering..
Becky, you in the armed forces?

Let's just go back to my original question than shall we?

Why aren't Canada, New Zealand Sweden, Norway etc on the hate list for terrorists?

I never got an answer to that one?

If if the US is so sqeaky clean and justified in it's peacekeeping, mistakes, invasions (without bombing), then why on Earth is such a vast majority of the world pissed off with them?

Hmmmmm. How many mistakes, invasions (without bombing), support of regimes practicing genocide, and bombs has Norway dropped lately?

They seem to leave people alone. They seem to NOT STICK their noses and bombs in other peoples countires.

Hmmmmm, COULD be a connection here...somewhere.

It's JUST possible....

Originally posted by Ninjorp
Let's just go back to my original question than shall we?

Why aren't Canada, New Zealand Sweden, Norway etc on the hate list for terrorists?

I never got an answer to that one?

You answered your own question, and then myself, as well as others, told you why. It is simply too late in the game for America to simply 'pull away' from its commitments to the other world powers. And all that comes with it means that we are drawn into such conflicts by foreign policy. Many times, more than any one person could know, our nation's leaders have 'sold the idea' of America's protection and ideals in exchange for such things as trade.

I'm sure you would understand if we pissed Japan off and then the cost of computer chips and other components skyrocketed (or, *gasp* they weren't available at all). Not to mention the fact that war would ensure afterwords, simply because we have an Army base there.

This world has grown into an intricately-carved network, and whereas that's a good thing for peace, it's terrible for problematic situations-- start one problem and it starts many more.

If you are a foreign advisor to some government official, a member of the news media, or a member of some military force (I think we can rule that last one out), then maybe you know more than you're letting on.

And still, you haven't posed a question regarding anything you haven't already said.

Stopping power? xenophobe, you really gotta get a life and stop fawning over every word ditzky spews out, although I do find this bonding between the two of you touching and tender. I just choose to ignore his puerile whinings.

Once again, this isn't about me. It's about ditzky. Why write the original post unless he's wetting his pants worrying over how badly he'll be spanked for being petulant?

He says he does his part by paying taxes. That's because he has to pay taxes. Have him stop paying his taxes to this evil regime that protects him while he sleeps if he really wants to protest.

To quote Joe Pesci i My Cousin Vinnie,

"I'm troo wit dis guy!"



[Edited on 29-4-2004 by jsobecky]

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by jsobecky]

Interesting how 'becky' avoided browha's little question.

Originally posted by browha
Just wondering..
Becky, you in the armed forces?

Browha

The name is John Sobecky. The username is jsobecky. The two kids have had fun doing what kids do with names.

To answer your question, I graduated tech school in 1970. The draft lottery system was in effect; I coulda stood on that, my number was 322. I had several cushy jobs available; I went into a position that took me to Turkey in "communications" which was classified. That's my resume, or at least all you're gonna know about it.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Stopping power? xenophobe, you really gotta get a life and stop fawning over every word ditzky spews out, although I do find this bonding between the two of you touching and tender. I just choose to ignore his puerile whinings.

Once again, this isn't about me. It's about ditzky. Why write the original post unless he's wetting his pants worrying over how badly he'll be spanked for being petulant?

He says he does his part by paying taxes. That's because he has to pay taxes. Have him stop paying his taxes to this evil regime that protects him while he sleeps if he really wants to protest.

To quote Joe Pesci i My Cousin Vinnie,

"I'm troo wit dis guy!"

lol. So, you are a 50 year old guy spewing out crap to a 20 year old, thinking you are above everyone and too busy to reply to my 'whining' just because you decided to go to war and not take up job offers?

You are a joke. You have not given me one good reply that even deems you of any kind of intelligence. You have to resort to making fun of me or xeno as your comebacks.

Other people in this post have given legitimate information; you've given nothing but pathetic attempts at making fun of me or xeno..

Either reply with something worthwhile, or stop wasting our time with your old nonsense.

OK Royboy. Tell Kristin I said thanks; she'll know what I mean.

Originally posted by jsobecky
OK Royboy. Tell Kristin I said thanks; she'll know what I mean.

..you are a sad, sad little man.

Originally posted by jsobecky
... I just choose to ignore his puerile whinings.

Looks like to me you can't 'ignore his puerile whinings'.

He says he does his part by paying taxes. That's because he has to pay taxes. Have him stop paying his taxes to this evil regime that protects him while he sleeps if he really wants to protest. ...

Yes, he has to pay taxes, but he doesn't have to join the military (since its a volunteer force).

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by browha
Just wondering..
Becky, you in the armed forces?

Browha

The name is John Sobecky. The username is jsobecky. The two kids have had fun doing what kids do with names.

To answer your question, I graduated tech school in 1970. The draft lottery system was in effect; I coulda stood on that, my number was 322. I had several cushy jobs available; I went into a position that took me to Turkey in "communications" which was classified. That's my resume, or at least all you're gonna know about it.

So is that a no or what? The use of the word 'cushy' doesn't sound alot like a life in the military. In fact, it sounds exactly like what you are flaming dz for. Is that why you weren't going to answer the question browha asked?

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

What do you want? More personal info so that you can pick it apart with disrespect like dz does? Why don't you post your own personal info?

Get it through your head...it isn't about me. Its about dz. It doesn't matter whether I was a Rambo or a milk-toast- dz. It's about dz.

Originally posted by jsobecky
What do you want? More personal info so that you can pick it apart with disrespect like dz does? Why don't you post your own personal info?

Get it through your head...it isn't about me. Its about dz. It doesn't matter whether I was a Rambo or a milk-toast- dz. It's about dz.

Disrespect? I was just asking about your past in the military, which I am confused on. We're you in it or not? We're you 'protecting us while we sleep' or not? We're you putting your life on the line or not? You seem to be the one showing more disrespect than me OR dz here sir. And you are supposed to be the older one? That comment about Kristen (whoever that is) sounds like something you think 'kids' like me and dz would say. Why are so many people contradictory these days? Think before you let us 'kids' get to you and then come back with a response.