CONS: H1N1 Flu: A Tale of Evolution, Economics, Power Politics and International Law.

reply to post by Sestias
[mo

Nearly a decade ago I had heard about the Pfiesteria piscicida organism sometimes called the fish sucker - you can read a portion of the book And the Waters Turned to Blood: the Ultimate Biological Threat by Rodney Barker (1997) online.

The _cell from hell_ is a description of the organism JoAnn Burkholder, Ph.D., found in North Carolina waterways. I recall hearing author Rodney Barker on CoasttoCoastam.com talk about his book with the grim history of the fish sucker that also attacked humans.

Subsequent discussion focused on what some referred to as a primeval organism that could have been disturbed in river beds and other waterways possibly caused by urban sewage effluent, pig and chicken farm waste, et al. North Carolina had tried to quarantine off a section of the river (!) which would be a feat indeed. I never heard what happened with that notion. (I attended grad school at Chapel Hill earlier.)

Preliminary symptoms of Alzheimers had appeared in more than one scientific researcher and crab fishermen could not remember if they were supposed to buy or sell crabs in their trucks.

I have not heard much about this organism in recent years. It reportedly had become airborne which was a threat to tourists, swimmers and others.

Reading this thread, I recalled what I had read about this _cell from hell_. It was said to be a thousand times stronger than cyanide: see:


Jo Ann Burkholder, Ph.D., has been a courageous researcher; her home page and vitae are at:



(She had received threats to her life.)

See also:

Human Health Issues Associated with the Hog Industry January 1999

Section 3 includes a discussion: Pfiesteria: a potential marker of polluted waters

4.5 Swine or Spanish Flu of 1918

4.6 Hog as 'Mixing Vessel' for Avian and Human Viruses

and

And the Waters Turned to Blood: the Ultimate Biological Threat by Rodney Barker (investigative journalist and editor)

From the book cover:

"In this account, Rodney Barker tells the full and terrifying story of a microorganism popping up along the Eastern seaboard - far closer to home than the Ebola virus and equally frightening. In the coastal waters of North Carolina - and now extending as far north as the Chesapeake Bay area - a mysterious and deadly aquatic organism named Pfiesteria piscicida threatens to unleash an environmental nightmare and human tragedy of catastrophic proportions.

"At the very center of this narrative is the heroic effort of Dr. JoAnn Burkholder and her colleagues, embattled and dedicated scientists confronting medical, political, and corporate powers to understand and conquer this new scourge before it claims more
victims."

I conjecture that low oxygen levels in estuaries in summer months could be exacerbated by global warming. Serious droughts have occurred in the last two decades and are anticipated to get worse. Recall that we had been warned for years
that global warming would mean an increase in diseases.

There is the theory that since boomers turned Social Security eligible age this
year that something would have to be done to curtail population.... But why would they go after the income generating segment of the population age 24-48?

I attended grad school in N. Carolina and could scarcely tolerate the heat for even one summer. I eventually changed my diet and my coast.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by EarthShine]

[edit on 5-5-2009 by EarthShine]

Hello Soficrow,

Many thanks for your reply to my post, I appreciate it. I did read all of your post, I just don't agree with your conclusions. Mainly that :

Forced husbandry has caused this and it has just evolved?

Perhaps you did not read all of my post. These strains DO NOT just mix together easily otherwise we would probably be extinct by now.

Why are you just ignoring the fact that they have been splicing Avian flu, (so called) Spanish flu and human flu ? That is a fact, yet you choose to blame it on 'forced husbandry' ?
This virus has been specifically created in a laboratory and released.

Let me quote Dr Rima E. Laibow :

''But there is no honest virologist in the world who can look you in the eye and say that this virus had any chance whatsoever of having self-assembled genes... ''.

www.healthfreedomusa.org...

Thanks again for your reply.

reply to post by soficrow


Eugenics?

If that is the plot, why wouldn't they use a more lethal weaponized virus?

Very interesting posts soficrow.

I'm on the fence with all of this, while it seems there could be some sinister plot, the virus itself could occur naturally, no?

If not, then perhaps a "second wave" could contain a much more virulent, lethal "mutation"?

Also, if the feared second wave comes before the completion of production of a vaccine, then perhaps that vaccine will only be made available to the most essential people. Government, law enforcement, medical, elite?

Sounds like a plot for a good fictional movie.

Originally posted by soficrow
ATS PREMIUM
By ATS Member Soficrow
May 4, 2009
Well, with respect to the H1N1 flu conflict, the legal argument is simple: "Even though the type A, strain H1N1 triple assortment clade flu virus evolved in the USA, the clade isolated in Mexico is ever so slightly different, so this one's not American. Don't even call it North American. Furthermore, the Mexican triple assortment clade of type A, strain H1N1 flu is being transmitted directly from person-to-person, not from pigs to people; therefor, it is not a swine flu anymore. Don't call it swine flu. The name hurts the pork industry.

What "legal argument?" What are you babbling about? Those suggested restrictions are voluntary; there are not enforced in any way. I can call the epidemic down in Mexico "swine flu" anytime I want to, so does The New York Times.

Health Officials Begin to Ease Public Alerts About Swine Flu

www.nytimes.com...

Your yellow pages-long attempt to squeeze another "Bilderberg conspiracy" out of the situation is a poorly delivered joke.

Originally posted by malcr

That won't make any difference to the inevitable it merely slows it down. Can you stop the migration of all birds in the air and all animals (human included) on land?

What we can do is accept the inevitable and prepare ourselves for it.

Acceptance is what got us in this mess in the first place. While I do agree with you that there may be little we can do this time apart from prepare the best we can, I feel it's time we all questioned what is right for us as a whole in the future, what will work for us (the people) in the future. What kind of a world will we leave to the next generation.

I feel there can be no debate that the current system has failed and will continue to fail the people. The model is flawed. It's time to tear it all down and start again.

What I was trying to suggest in my post is that we all look deep inside ourselves and question the system and our acceptance of it. It's time people stopped choosing the path of least resistance... where it's easier to just leave things as they are... too accept.

Sure it looks like a steep climb - the job looks overwhelming but as any mountain climber will tell you...

"Each journey begins with the first step".

IRM

You can make Colloidal Silver with 3 9 volt batteries. Those people who got "Argyria", the bluish skin color took too high a concentration and far too much. It is not toxic and not deadly at all, just you look like a smurf.

I have been using it for 4 months and have had great results with dealing with Bronchitis and muscle aches from training. I have built more than 50 of the little units and have passed them out. People have cured everything from under-active thyroid to colds to infections and fungus on their feet. It has been shown to cure cancer and AIDS as well. There is a Bob Beck protocol that lists more info on the stuff. I will try and find the link.

NEVER GET VACCINATED!! If anyone read the link I posted earlier written by a doctor back in 1976/77, then you would understand the situation now and who is behind it. It is all a FRAUD. The Pharmacutical companies want to redistribute the wealth and land by exterminating those people who are dumb enough to get Vaccinated. Non-vaccinated people have shown to be far less likely to become ill with anything. Perfect example is Typhoid Mary, she worked and helped many people with the disease but NEVER showed any signs of it herself even though it was very "contagious". That is a joke too. Virus's are nto contagious, read that 50 page report by those doctors.

More from Science Mag's Science Insider

Interview with Yi Guan, Hong Kong University Virologist and SARS Sleuth.....

Q: Is it surprising how quickly H1N1 adapted?

Y.G.: All viruses, after interspecies transmission, will evolve fast. But why this H1N1 could become successful at efficient human-to-human transmission is still unknown. We have a knowledge gap about how influenza A viruses build up their pandemicity in humans. As swine H1N1 has being circulating in pigs since 1918, it has accumulated [many] differences from human H1N1 virus. So, for human beings, it looks like a novel subtype, as most human individuals lack immunity to this swine-like H1N1. This is one of the most important conditions for pandemic emergence. Whether the novel virus will develop into a more virulent strain—just like the Spanish flu did in the fall of 1918 to kill more people—we still don't have any idea.

Q: It depends on further mutations?

Y.G.: It depends on mutations and whether the virus further reassorts with other viruses—like H5N1. That could be a super nightmare for the whole world.

Q: You’re talking about the Armageddon virus?

Y.G.: The chance is very, very low that these two viruses will mix together, but we cannot rule out the possibility. Now, H5N1 is in more than 60 countries. It’s a panzootic, present everywhere except North America.

Q: If the nightmare comes true?

Y.G.: If that happens, I will retire immediately and lock myself in the P3 lab. H5N1 kills half the people it infects. Even if you inject yourself with a vaccine, it may be too late. Maybe in just a couple hours it takes your life.

So now we sit and wait and watch this thing.....and hope the latter doesn't happen......

-Dev

Originally posted by mumblyjoe

Many thanks for your reply to my post, I appreciate it.

Thank you too - your contributions are greatly appreciated.

I did read all of your post, I just don't agree with your conclusions.

Okay.

Forced husbandry has caused this and it has just evolved?
...These strains DO NOT just mix together easily otherwise we would probably be extinct by now.

There are a number of mutations that create new strains and clades - including recombination, reassortment, antigenic drift...

The conditions created in industrial barns - including overcrowding, medicating animals with antivirals, antibiotics and live vaccines - create new diseases. No doubt about it.

We're not extinct, but most people are sick and some are very sick - I think it's related. ...Not all diseases kill quickly or outright.

Why are you just ignoring the fact that they have been splicing Avian flu, (so called) Spanish flu and human flu ? That is a fact, yet you choose to blame it on 'forced husbandry' ?

Why are you ignoring the fact that the first triple assortment H1N1 emerged in 1998, in Wisconsin?

...The 'splicing' has occurred with human/swine/avian flus - to create a vaccine. While I think the whole idea behind vaccination is dead wrong, biologically, I recognize that the attempt makes sense in a pro-vaccine context.

This virus has been specifically created in a laboratory and released.
Let me quote Dr Rima E. Laibow :
''But there is no honest virologist in the world who can look you in the eye and say that this virus had any chance whatsoever of having self-assembled genes... ''.
www.healthfreedomusa.org...
Thanks again for your reply.

I think it's more likely that the 1918 H1N1 sample that was reconstituted in 1997 escaped accidentally to trigger the weird mutations that began in that year.

A number of honest, concerned scientists identified the triple assortment mutations in H3N2 and H1N1 immediately - and the danger - and tried their very best to warn us.

...The mini-history of viral evolution I presented does NOT preclude the idea that some idiots assembled a new virus (or more) - or that they might try to use corporate bio-terrorism for profit. That's a given, IMO.

But in this case, the evidence shows clearly that several triple assortment flu strains and clades evolved in industrial animal husbandry operations, were spread round the world by trade - and are loose and free to continue mutating and evolving in a variety of hosts - people and pigs being only 2 possible reservoirs.

Also note: technical scientists copy natural evolutionary processes for genetic engineering - that's where they got the idea, and learned what to do.

So again, it may be that a triple assortment H1N1 flu strain was purposefully created and let loose in the world as you and Horowitz insist - BUT - the effort was redundant - such strains were already loose in the world, generated by factory farms.

Check these out:

The "NAFTA Flu": Critics Say Swine Flu Has Roots in Forcing Poor Countries to Accept Western Agribus. ATS

Swine flu genes traced to North Carolina hog farm SouthernStudies

new Canadian-led research suggests that we might have given pigs the flu in the first place, during the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Swine flu roots traced to Spanish flu

Well to Mr. Guan I say bull. "H" is the designation of the Bird Gene, "N" is the designation for the Human Gene. The WHO tried to infect birds with the H5N1 virus hoping that it would propogate and seek out the other three Genes needed to become H8N1 which is Influenza. It didn't work, because it takes years, possibly hundreds of years for a virus to mutate unless it is done in a lab. So they killed thousands of birds because they had to hide the evidence.

Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist here to use plausibility and common sense with a dash of deductive reasoning to see through all this smoke being blown up our butts.

WHY, why is it that "swine flu" was only "discovered" in 1918? Please someone explain that to me, pigs have existed for thousands of years, right? I know science back then was not that advanced and they did not have the equipment to make the discoveries we make today, but come on here. Coincidence that the "outbreak" of Spanish Influenza, which it was, killed 20 million people, almost all of whom were vaccinated, and no pigs had the flu and no birds had the flu even though it IS a bird flu?

Who makes this stuff up? Who gains the most from all this? Who produces the Vaccines? Makes you wonder if they don't prodcue the virus also.

So why not? It's big business isn't it. If you all had the ability to profit from all this wouldn't you? The speculators make money, the investors make money, the pharmacutical companies producing the "Vaccines" make money. So who doesn't make money and who suffers?

Me and you thats who.

So it is not hard to see what this is all about, reduce the population so you can control them and take our money at the same time, perfect plan.

Like I have stated before, read this article complete. It is 50 pages long and very informative. These doctors are not idiots, they are probably the most honest doctors out there. I have a friend who works at the Vererans Hospital (as an Internist) and he read it and stated it was correct and to remember that doctors are only "practicing medicine", they really don't know as much as they claim.

READ IT!
www.whale.to...

great post.........i am not considering it "likely at this point" that when the flu returns in the winter that it will be any worse than the seasonal flu (35,000 annual deaths in USA)

I do agree that politicos are Protecting BIG Agriculture by no longer naming it swine flu.........why don't they just kick big ag. in the aZZ and call it :Factory Farm unsanitary conditions Flu " Big industry has taken over ......that i agree with........and people right now don't want to know (they'd rather believe in Fairy tales of recovery)........they would rather wait until it is clear their standard of living is not coming back.....and then get pissy about it

none the less it will be very intresting to watch the "novel flu" make a comeback this winter.......

also will this flu take 6 months to come back to south america as well therebye bypassing their winter season (which will be starting in a month or so)?

[edit on 5-5-2009 by cpdaman]

reply to post by stander


Well the Israelis and the food industry would differ from you and they won.

Still just because the strain has been so call "mild" doesn't mean that now that this flu can "spread" more easily is not due for a comeback anytime it wants too with more deadly force.

After all our bodies is very good at fighting viruses all our lives at least for most people but what happen when our bodies decide to fight our own bodies and kill us at the same time.

Still a lot that we will only speculate about.

At least Sofi been a member for many years and me knowing her work on this topic for all this years was telling about the possibility of what is going on right now with this flu long before this became a reality.

And so many other in the scientific community also.

reply to post by cpdaman


I got the felling that when this flu comes back if actually leave at all the entire year we are going to be facing three different strains of it.

I can only imagine the money making scam that big pharma will get into just to make profits from this, specially the so call "treatments" because "cure" is not their minds.

Originally posted by marg6043
I got the felling that when this flu comes back if actually leave at all the entire year we are going to be facing three different strains of it.

I can only imagine the money making scam that big pharma will get into just to make profits from this, specially the so call "treatments" because "cure" is not their minds.

Three strains - at least!

And oh! the profits...

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by stander

 

Well the Israelis and the food industry would differ from you

and they won.

Sorry to hear that you private life is so much affected by orthodox clergy in Israel.


Let's see how much the Israelis care about what some of their mentally challenged citizens suggest about banning the name "swine flu."

By JUDY SIEGEL-ITZKOVICH

Tel Aviv woman fourth Israeli diagnosed with swine flu as virus numbers diminish around the world.

www.jpost.com.../Page/IndexParMult&cid=1123495333151


Aah, that Jerusalem Post -- always subversive and unyielding . . .

I don't now about any construed conspiracy, like the one the OP tries to sell, that is worth to peek into.

There would be always flu as long as there are viruses; there would be always earthquakes as long as there is the earth; and there would be always some conspiracy as long as there are cons and pirates.

~ broccoli! ~

Originally posted by stander

I don't now about any construed conspiracy, like the one the OP tries to sell, that is worth to peek into.

a. Putting profits before people is not a conspiracy, it's just good business.

b. Allowing factory farms to create deadly diseases is not a conspiracy. Again, just good business. At worst, a policy of benign neglect.

There would be always flu as long as there are viruses;

But now, we're breeding really special viruses, ones that jump species and kingdom barriers...

there would be always earthquakes as long as there is the earth;

And of course, as you know, major dams, seismic testing and other big weights and bangs trigger quakes...

and there would be always some conspiracy as long as there are cons and pirates.

Aye. There's the rub.

Getting back to the virus and NWo plans. I have found the link to the website that has the Dr. Bob Beck pdf.

www.cancertutor.com...

It says cancer but has all the info in the paper for the Colloidal Silver generator and all the universities that have tested the Colloidal Silver on over 650 different pathogens, virus's and bacteria with complete success. Downlaod the pdf and read it. Educate yourself and protect the people around you.

Also, vitamin D is the most important vitamin on the planet, and not from milk either, pasteurization keeps your body from absorbing it. Just think about that phlemmy taste in your mouth after drinking milk, it does that to your intestinal tract too!!! Your small intestine cannot absorb the nutrients in the GM food you eat. Grow your own veggies. Pick berries out in the wild. B-17 also is a missing vitamin in our diet. Removed from all fruits and veggies back in the 70's.

Do the colloidal silver as prescribe in the article, you will NEVER turn blue and you will be healthy as an........ well you will be healthy and unaffected by the NWO swine crap.

Read, read, read and deduce. Use your imagination. Understand your body. Understand nature. Virus's take years to mutate and change. They need hosts to do this too. Virus's can't live in oxygen rich environments, no bacteria can. Ozonated water is a good thing too. Spread the word and not their disease or will.

I was told that Vitamin D comes from fish, if that is true then wouldnt that be like putting some more mercury in our bodies to?

The number one thing though is that as far as I know if we do get the H1N1 flu that is now out there, we wont ever get it again. The problem though with this is the fact that those folks that are sick with cancer or Asthma like my daughter will be more at risk to die from it.

When the Killer bug was here in NC a few months ago my 6 year old daughter almost died from it. One lady that was in the doctors office did die a week after she was hospitalized she was in her 70s. At that time they said that bug was only effecting young, and old folks. But soon enough it started effecting others. I dont know if this was the same flu that is now going around, but where it was a killer I have a bad feeling it may have been.

A bug like this was something that none of us have ever had before. It left schools working at 50% capacity for close to 2 weeks. I have to say that I personally have never had a flu that bad before in my whole life. My lungs still are not back to normal after it hit. I have never seen any of my 3 children have a fever that went over 102. This made fevers of 104 to 110. My son had a fever of 106 for 3 days. Horrible headaches, and was dizzy. He was far to weak to even sip water. My daughter was hit much harder her fever went up to 110 in the hospital. Caughing, headaches, as well as upset stomach. Then on top of all of that once the fever was gone it was 2 weeks before she was even strong enough to start eating. Mine started out with headaches and dizziness, it then changed to me being so weak I couldnt even stand up, then the caughing and fever started. I was lucky to have only have had a fever of 103. But I still was hospitilized for a week.

I hate the thought that maybe this flu was here in the US before it ever hit Mexico, but if it was the same flu, I feel very lucky that we made it through it. Of course it just ticks me off though that the government may have known it was here but then wanted to blame it on Mexico.

On the other hand if it wasnt the same flu, it makes you wonder why it never was put on the TV, and in all of the news. So many folks around the US were struck with this. I really dont know why it never hit the media. So far it killed more folks then H1N1 has worldwide.

Thats all for now, because we are getting closer to getting tornadoes here. So I am getting offline, or at least off here for a bit. Truthfully I think the tornadoes scare me more then the flu.

Originally posted by pmbhuntress

When the Killer bug was here in NC a few months ago my 6 year old daughter almost died from it. One lady that was in the doctors office did die a week after she was hospitalized she was in her 70s. At that time they said that bug was only effecting young, and old folks. But soon enough it started effecting others. I dont know if this was the same flu that is now going around, but where it was a killer I have a bad feeling it may have been.

A bug like this was something that none of us have ever had before. It left schools working at 50% capacity for close to 2 weeks. I have to say that I personally have never had a flu that bad before in my whole life. My lungs still are not back to normal after it hit. I have never seen any of my 3 children have a fever that went over 102. This made fevers of 104 to 110. My son had a fever of 106 for 3 days. Horrible headaches, and was dizzy. He was far to weak to even sip water. My daughter was hit much harder her fever went up to 110 in the hospital. Caughing, headaches, as well as upset stomach. Then on top of all of that once the fever was gone it was 2 weeks before she was even strong enough to start eating. Mine started out with headaches and dizziness, it then changed to me being so weak I couldnt even stand up, then the caughing and fever started. I was lucky to have only have had a fever of 103. But I still was hospitilized for a week.

I hate the thought that maybe this flu was here in the US before it ever hit Mexico, but if it was the same flu, I feel very lucky that we made it through it. Of course it just ticks me off though that the government may have known it was here but then wanted to blame it on Mexico.

Thanks for that.

I'm in Manitoba, Canada - and we've had something here too, but not quite as bad. Lots of kids and young people really sick though, and it hangs on for a long time.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

FYI -
A couple of gems from the past...

From Pandemic Watch 2007. ATS

Interestingly Macedonia and Bulgaria are in the middle of a worse than normal flu' season. H3N2 and H1N1 not normally a reason to worry but in these countries it is causing a abnormally high fatality rate..As H1N1 did in Alabama (not fatality but 6 kids on life support.).These flu' strains need to be looked at again!! NOW throw H5N1 into the region too...Microbial storm!!

From Murphs:
H3N2 was one of the top runners for next pandemic influenza until a few people starting hyping H5N1. H3N2 is dangerous because most people born after 1957 would have no immunity, from what I understand.
Swine influenza (A/New Jersey/76 [H1N1]) represented an antigenic shift from the previous H3N2 strains to an H1N1 strain. IN 1993 The Netherlands was hit with a nasty outbreak of H3N2; It was reassortment between old human H3N2 (1973/75- like) and avian H1N1. I had tried to discuss the possibility of the next pandemic coming from an influenza virus other than H5N1 but it wasn't received real well. However, the possibility of just that happening is real.

From Flu Vaccine Technology: Who's Blocking its Use? 27-11-2004 ATS

Cutting-edge technology for flu vaccine development is called "reverse genetic engineering." It's quick, easy and reliable, but it's not being used to create vaccines for the bird flu epidemic that's threatening some parts of the world. Supposedly, it's too expensive. Vaccine manufacturers say profits will suffer if they pay royalties, so they still use the old, slow, unreliable "genetic reassortment" technology. As a result, some estimates indicate a billion people may die world-wide from bird flu, including millions of Americans. Maybe a billion more will live to suffer progressive degeneration and disability.

To all-
I have been reading posts here for weeks and have joined to participate. Thank you for the exhaustive research on the influenza outbreak. As a biochemist (originally) who then went on to infectious disease and molecular and micro- bio, I hope to have something to add to the discussion.

For now, go easy on me as I learn my way around!

Thank you especially for the analysis, Soficrow, that is posted here. I look forward to contributing solid research, as well.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Government labs, CDC, WHO, etc., have a fair amount to do with this outbreak, and will substantiate with forthcoming posts.

Be well, and thank you for having me in a community of fellow thinkers and people of acquisitive minds.

CultureD