Why are they tracking every American household by GPS?

It the world of GIS (Geographic Information Systems) there is a technology called "Geocoding".

Geocoding is converting an address like "123 Main Street, Anywhere, USA" to an Latitude/Longitude coordinate. That's how map directions are created like in MapQuest or Google Maps.

The problem with Geocoding is it isn't perfect. It can make mistakes or not work at all if the underlying data is old or inaccurate. So they are GPS'ing the locations of front doors and additional "dwellings" to fill in the mistakes on test their system for accuracy.

I work in the field of GIS and I assure you, if you are worried about them GPS'ing your front door, you would soil your shorts about how else they can track you (cell phone just for starters...).

This GIS technology is only going to get more sophisticated as every decade passes. I predict that in 20 years we will all be so comprehensively tracked that they will no longer need to hold a "census" - they will already know everything about you in real-time.

reply to post by harrytuttle


While I agree with your predictions about "tracking" in the future, I cannot see that it would be "complete" and the norm for everyone. It's a big world out there.

Not everyone has a mobile phone, drives a car, uses credit cards, debit cards and store cards and lives in a city where the CCTV operates and RFID chips are being read everywhere. Not everyone lives in that kind of commercial world.

The future you speak of probably only pertains to those who live the kind of life that neccessitates the things that bring that kind of surveillance as part of it's technology.

Victims of the real big brother society like you predict will be so mainly because of commercial gain from the product makers and the tax collectors and the meglomanic politicians who are only out to line their own pockets with spin-offs and investments in their own industrious futures.

The "automation" of the human race began years ago, but it will NEVER be complete. We won't all bow down to the eye in the sky or the god of the shopping mall.

And with the evolving awareness of minds like we find around here and the increasing discontent (and decreasing wealth) of the consumers there are more stones being turned than ever. "They" try harder each day to look down on us but their pedestals are not made of steel and we hear of them toppling every day.

The politicians, bankers and commercial pan-handlers DO get caught out, and every time they do, the giant eye of the masses brings new focus to thwart their selfish and underhanded plans. There are so many new schemes and laws discussed in the media that don't seem to come to fruition.... Are they are just trying to push the limits and maybe sneak something past us unaware.....usually for profit.

Fat chance!

"They" are there to do a job, for us....not the other way round. We put them there and we can take them away.....NEVER be afraid to react, it's only human.

We are the customer, the bread & butter, they are the servants.

If they cannot give us what we need to survive and what we want to be happy, what use are they?

The greatest enemy to most humans is the ignorance of accepting what is a "need" and what is a "want".

THAT is "their" greatest weapon against us. With personal security comes enlightenment, so they try to keep us insecure and needy. With truth and knowledge comes fact, so they try to keep us in the dark and wanting.

This carbon lifeform will never follow a set path, it's not natural. I am unpredictable, spontaneous and creative and will ALWAYS rock the boat if I don't like the captain.

Until the consumer-minded and actionless people change their ways en-masse, they will have to put up with GPS tracking, tagging, surveillance, loss of their freedoms and being made to feel like criminals.

If you can't do without your credit, debit & store cards, your shiny car with it's myriad of black-boxes, your mobile phone and all it's gadgetry, your HDTV with 200 channels and a million adverts, your designer RFID tagged labels and latest fashion accessories, etc, etc, etc....

Who's to blame? You LET them watch, you LET them scan, you LET them calculate your next move every time you press a button, whether on a mobile phone, a TV remote, a GPS or a cash-machine and you finance your own oppression.

True freedom doesn't go "beep"! Don't play the game and they can't win!

reply to post by earlywatcher


My guess is that this was really a census guy just doing his job. There is no need to place a GPS marker in front of every house as technology has advanced far beyond this. Don't believe me? Go to google earth, type in your address and see what happens. My house with address shows up along with my entire property. It even shows my cars in the driveway. So the government already has access to exact locations of all homes via sat. imagery.

The guy gave me some hoky response about ther 911 address. Its been up for ten years, I've been a cop for 13. Thats when I asked, demanded his ID. These people are retarded! i might be a deputy but Im a libertarian! F***KING TARDS!

Like the guy said, u can see my land on google earth, down to my lawn mower parked in the yard.

To make it even scarier...

Who even knows what the GPS apparatus really is in disguise?

It could be anything from a scent detector/marker to a voice analysis/collection machine (but that could be done over a cell or land-line). But I don't think either, there are easier ways to do this than going door to door.

It has to be the invisible way to mark the doors while ensuring that the home owner is actually who they claim to be..because most do not turn down giving information to a census taker. Most assume it is a legal/government necessity.

Yet, some people move around quite a bit (less likely in middle class hoods and in areas that persons are land-owners compared to renters. Keeping track of apartment renting dwellers is as easy as gathering the information on 600 persons within 2 minutes via a landlord.

If you really want somewhere to go when sh*t hits the fan, go to places where the rich and famous would be...at headliner and/or condos like Trump Plaza or other ritzy casinos. But on second thought, it might be likely that having those more infuencial people in one place makes a great target for them. People with influence and power would go down with as much or more fight than those in middle or dire poverty.





[edit on 4-5-2009 by suzque66]

well, funny, I found that this project has a name: Project Acorn:

www.infowars.com...

which led to this info on a thread:

All Things Considered, July 31, 2006 · Two-and-a-half years from now, in early 2009, the Census Bureau plans to send an army of 100,000 temporary workers down every street and dusty, dirt road in America. They will be armed with handheld GPS devices.


Robert LaMacchia, head of the Census Bureau's geography division, says they'll capture the latitude and longitude of the front door of every house, apartment and improvised shelter they find.


"We will actually knock on doors and look for hidden housing units," he says. "We will find converted garages; from the outside, it may not look like anybody lives there."


But census workers will add each dwelling, legal or not, to the Census Bureau's Master Address File.


Recent proposed budget cuts have put part of this plan in jeopardy. But if Congress restores the money, the census will end up with the geographic coordinates — accurate to within 10 feet — for about 110 million residences.


But the Census Bureau can't, by law, share that list with anyone, even local governments. LaMacchia says the information has to be treated as confidential. Otherwise, people might lie, and the census wouldn't be accurate.


"People would not tell us about hidden housing units," LaMacchia says. "People would not respond to the questionnaire if they believed that that information would be turned over to law enforcement or code enforcement and become public information."

Martial law wouldn't require such elaborate preparations. Declare martial law, shoot anyone who's outside. Problem solved, just like in the good old days.

sorry for ANOTHER post but I just found new info.

and no Martial Law will not go as smoothly if everyone is dead, they need some people with certain skills to be slaves lol duh.

new info Read here:
findarticles.com...

Census officials expect the test will determine the feasibility of using the GPS-enabled PDA devices for locating and navigating to assignment areas and housing units, collecting census and payroll data, and testing new census procedures and concepts. Bids to supply the equipment closed early in August.

The GPS equipment must output NMEA-0183 (v2.20 or later) SiRF standard protocols and possibly others and track L1, L2, or L5 C/A-code continuously. The agency's FDCA solicitation sets differential GPS as the priority signal, followed by WAAS and unassisted "pure" GPS. The test's accuracy requirement is three meters or less uncorrected, although it notes that data can be differentially corrected. Finally, the receivers will take advantage of any Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) signals available at the time of procurement, and specifically notes Europe's Galileo system now under development.

Looking ahead to a full-scale rollout in 2010, the Census Burea has established a website with detailed background information, reports, and other documents for potential FDCA contractors: www.census.gov/procur/www/fdca.

within those documents: In addition, other federal laws, including the Confidential Information Protection and Statistical Efficiency Act and the Privacy Act, reinforce these protections.

Title 13 Protections
•Private Information is Never Published
It is against the law to disclose or publish any private information that identifies an individual or business:
◦No names
◦No addresses
◦No Social Security Numbers or Employer Identification Numbers
◦No telephone numbers
•We Collect Information to Produce Statistics
We use your information to produce statistics. Your personal information cannot be used against you by any government agency or court.
•Sworn for Life to Protect Your Confidentiality
Every person with access to your information is sworn for life to protect your confidentiality.
•Violating the Law is a Serious Crime
If anyone violates this law, it is a federal crime; they will face severe penalties, including a federal prison sentence of up to five years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both.

notice it says your info cannot be PUBLISHED , thus, so what? it is still kept by the govt. It cannot be published for PUBLIC use--only government.

"Our country depends on these data for decision-making, and your complete and honest response ensures our data are accurate. Responding quickly and completely to census and survey questions provides an opportunity for individuals to enhance the quality of government and society.

These statistics can be used for many valuable purposes, including important decisions for your family or business, such as whether to move to a new neighborhood, open a business, or market your products to new customers."

yes, so if it cannot be READ by the public for 72 yrs in the US and 94 years in Canada then it is obvious 'someone or many' have this information in order to use it to manipulate society in some way...as those paragraphs indicate.

I also found that china has been using GPS also for census taking since 2000. Except they have HUGE issues with people 1. lying and 2. hiding from the census takers lol.

reply to post by suzque66


Excellent new information! I feel so much better knowing that they will protect my information from the public! (sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious) I'm actually not afraid of the public. It's the government that worries me.

Does anybody on this thread believe that these protections apply to government officials?

It shouldn't bother me since I really have nothing to hide, but i've watched the movie Enemy of the State a number of times and he only came to be an enemy of the state accidently. It can happen to anyone. I have in my possession a beautiful silk dress that was used in a trial in communist china to prove that the owner of this dress was a capitalist--or she wouldn't have owned the dress. she was imprisoned. we do't know what direction things will turn. anything that we now take for granted can become a crime.

if this is all nonsense, great! we can all laugh about this and say how silly we are. in the meantime we need to pay attention.

I still can't see why the census needs gps info when everything is mailed or personal visits are made to street addresses. i can see reason why it would be nice to have, but not why it ended up in the census budget.

funny

the Census Bureau of China page on international Cooperation lists:

www.stats.gov.cn...

The Delegation of Nielsen Group Visited NBS(2008.12.22) and the UN as being helpers in their census taking abilities and statistic counting soft/hardware.

Sure, sure they are an enemy, as if. They are the same as we are.

Interesting also:

www.foxnews.com...

hmmm even scarier: 'I couldn't be Judd Gregg'

www.politico.com... (read and see video here)

for those that do not know who Judge Dred is: en.wikipedia.org...

"Judge Joe Dredd is a comics character whose strip in the British science fiction anthology 2000 AD is the magazine's longest running (having been featured there since its second issue in 1977). Dredd is a law enforcement officer in a violent city of the future where uniformed Judges combine the powers of police, judge, jury and executioner. Dredd and his fellow Judges are empowered to arrest, sentence and even execute criminals on the spot. He was created by writer John Wagner and artist Carlos Ezquerra, although editor Pat Mills also deserves some credit for his early development."

According to the Census law...you do not have to ever Section 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

but, in subsection 224
Whoever, being the owner, official, agent, person in charge, or
assistant to the person in charge, of any company, business,
institution, establishment, religious body, or organization of any
nature whatsoever, neglects or refuses, when requested by the
Secretary or other authorized officer or employee of the Department
of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, to answer completely and
correctly to the best of his knowledge all questions relating to
his company, business, institution, establishment, religious body,
or other organization, or to records or statistics in his official
custody, contained on any census or other schedule or questionnaire
prepared and submitted to him under the authority of this title,
shall be fined not more than $500; and if he willfully gives a
false answer to any such question, he shall be fined not more than
$10,000.

Project Acorn: article.nationalreview.com...

www.thecitizen.com...

reply to post by suzque66


I had to skim the articles because the connection with ACORN worries me so much. I know they are partner with the census. Do they ever do things in a non-partisan manner? Everyone knows the white house wants to use the census for redistricting. is that ACORN's main focus? They are well known for strong arm tactics to get donations from people. that case just recently. why would you hire a group like this to help conduct the census?

there are several things involved with this process that are vulnerable to distortion. we will have no way of know if the statistics produced are correct, and we will have no way of knowing if they are collecting personal information on their own, separate from the census data, and we have no way to call them to account because they are blessed from on high, and i don't mean heaven.

Originally posted by earlywatcher


does anybody out there have other ideas about how this info will be used?

LOL, why "GPS Track" a house, where is it going to travel to?

I will let you know if anyone attempts to "GPS Tag" my house, but as of yet I have never witnessed such absurdity. What a complete waste of money, as I am certain they spend between $400 and $1,000 on each of the Units they hand out to these so dubbed "Surveyors".

BTW, you can already find the GPS Coordinates for your very house through Google Earth and the likes. You can even place the marker directly upon your Driveway, Front Door, Back Porch, what have you, it can already be done.

As for "ACORN", I would love to finally have them visit my pleasant home. I might decide to introduce them to my Dog Pack, or quite possibly dole out a giant bag full of Acorns to them. I truly look forward to such opportunities, and I am certain that my yard full of Squirrels completely agrees.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by TheAgentNineteen]

when the census people come round,everyone needs to register as a democrat if they ask. that way they wont know how to redistrict the population in their favor lets all politicize the census.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
It the world of GIS (Geographic Information Systems) there is a technology called "Geocoding".

Geocoding is converting an address like "123 Main Street, Anywhere, USA" to an Latitude/Longitude coordinate. That's how map directions are created like in MapQuest or Google Maps.

The problem with Geocoding is it isn't perfect. It can make mistakes or not work at all if the underlying data is old or inaccurate. So they are GPS'ing the locations of front doors and additional "dwellings" to fill in the mistakes on test their system for accuracy.

I work in the field of GIS and I assure you, if you are worried about them GPS'ing your front door, you would soil your shorts about how else they can track you (cell phone just for starters...).

This GIS technology is only going to get more sophisticated as every decade passes. I predict that in 20 years we will all be so comprehensively tracked that they will no longer need to hold a "census" - they will already know everything about you in real-time.

I knew another Geographer or GIS-related person would find this thread!

Harry has it right. GIS can estimate the address for points that are digitized from a sat image. But these estimates are painfully inaccurate if you have buildings larger than a normal lot. My old apartment was located at 1104 on a block, but if you go to a program that just geocoded (like Google Earth), it'd show up as 1120, which was a building a ways down the block! To correct this, someone has to go out into the field with a GPS unit and lock in the correct address to a correct set of coordinates. I've done this in an exercise for a class, and it makes a big difference.

The questions they are asking are mainly so they can find those other "front doors" imo. If they are trying to find all of the front doors they'll have to ask who all is home. I can't remember, but I think people over 18 have to fill out their own form, even if they live in their parent's place. I may be wrong, since I wasn't 18 in the last one.

Now, why is it needed to have all of this GPS data? Geocoding is a prime reason. Another is that the Census provides the aforementioned TIGER data to the public. This data is amazing if you are a Geographer/GIS Tech. You can get down to street level information withing voting blocks and general demographic data for them. This is what the Census was meant to do: provide a resource to plan for the expansion of government services (not influence! services) by identifying growing areas and those areas that are falling apart. Unfortunately there is the downside that much of this data is used for ill purpose. Polichickens try to gerrymander district lines, others use TIGER data on housing and cross-reference it with flood plain data to identify insurance targets (legitamate, but an example of what could be done, I'll leave it to you to think of more nefarious uses).

Its likely in 10 years we'll be talking about this again. Due to the fact that the plates of the Earth are moving about 3 inches a year, the coordinates that we are at now will be about a yard to our left (if facing South in the US). In GeoSpatial terms, that's enormous, since many of the stock images provided by USGS is 1-m or below resolution. Not to mention the fact that people move, expand, and rebuild their homes, and a ten year snapshot is just the same as if you were to compare pictures of yourself with ten years of difference. Personally I'd be a foot shorter and holding a book in one hand while playing a Game Boy in the other. Now I'm on a computer instead of both.

I'm more worried about the uses of this than I am of them taking it. Actually as a Geographer I'm almost salivating to see the data in 2011.

Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by suzque66

 

this thing about marking, and many of the articles i've read describe it as painting the door. Is this an actual mark of some sort placed on the structure? My understanding of gps is that it's just long/lat coordinates but this sounds like it is a mark that can be read by someone else. so is it something that can be read by some other instrument?

It's a 'mark' in the sense that a computer can use software to place a 'marker' at a set of co-ordinates on a map or satellite image indicating the location of that point on the earth. My ancient, buggy, worn out GPS unit will do it right in the unit, or I can download all the data (called 'waypoints) to my computer, get the maps and satpics off the internet if I don't already have them stored locally, and voila! I've produced a map to that precise point. As I mentioned before, my unit was accurate to about 15 feet on the test run I did last night. That was with about a 3 minute fix. The longer you sit there, the better the position. The best I've done so far is within about 3 feet, in 15 minutes. That's with off the shelf, ancient, and buggy stuff.

And NO, the coordinates DO NOT have to be 'keyed in by hand' as was suggested above. I can get 'em into my machine 500 stored points at a time, automated.

nenothtu out

reply to post by suzque66


The key to this post is in section (a). The census is NOT UNDER THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE THIS TIME. It has been usurped by the White house. Ergo, none of the law should apply now, right?

I wonder if I tell the census takers that, if the would send the Secretary of commerce to ask me the questions?

nenothtu out

I'm going to paint my front door to look like a wall and paint a fake cave entrance on the far side of my house like Wile E. Coyote does to fool the Road Runner.

Then when we are all wearing tracking devices in the future, the government will be baffled when everybody seems to enter through the "solid wall" front door and not through the gaping cave entrance.