Our Aryan Heritage: Learn about your real spiritual heritage

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Perfection is an ideal for those who desire to escape conflict and struggle, a belief that once you obtain this perfect state, that you will no longer have any problems. We know that we are not perfect, because we continuously make mistakes, and continuously have to deal with conflict and struggle.

Lust is personal enjoyment of sex. There is nothing wrong with enjoying sex, or anything that life offers us, including victory. What distinguishes wrong from right, good from evil, is when people let their desires over ride their responsibilities as humans, to act fairly and and with virtue in ones conduct in order to establish trust, and therefore law and order, or in other words, to take what one has not earned.

Why seek perfection?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
By the way you never answered my question - did you start meditating BEFORE or AFTER you read about meditation? Be honest.

I did answer this, I do not meditate at all and wouldn't know the first thing about doing it. I brought it up because it is a form of learning which does not come from external sources. The techniques are perhaps learned, but what is gained from them comes from the experience itself. And while the techniques are learned by most, it did originate from somewhere.

I really don't know why you keep referring to knowledge and understanding as coming from a vacuum, I told you before it is not coming from a vacuum, it comes from the father to those who seek it.

Wisdom, knowledge and understanding are the only things that are considered valuable in the eyes of the father, and so those are the gifts you get from him. So it's hardly as if I am just pulling things out of a vacuum.

You call yourself a child of god, and then you deny the father that is within all. Exactly what kind of god do you think you are a child of?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Indigo_Child

 

Perfection is an ideal for those who desire to escape conflict and struggle, a belief that once you obtain this perfect state, that you will no longer have any problems. We know that we are not perfect, because we continuously make mistakes, and continuously have to deal with conflict and struggle.

Lust is personal enjoyment of sex. There is nothing wrong with enjoying sex, or anything that life offers us, including victory. What distinguishes wrong from right, good from evil, is when people let their desires over ride their responsibilities as humans, to act fairly and and with virtue in ones conduct in order to establish trust, and therefore law and order, or in other words, to take what one has not earned.

Why seek perfection?

Perfection is nonsense. It is our imperfections that make us unique and who we are. I agree with you, it's not about being perfect, but it is about gaining wisdom. Wisdom is the combination of knowledge, experience and understanding in order to make the correct choices, and as such the ability to distinguish wrong from right and so on.

The things you mention, like sex, are not bad in themselves, it's the excessive abuse and such of it, where people near destroy themselves to get it. Then it becomes a problem.

reply to post by badmedia


Thanks, I think we agree completely on this.

I think the unrealistic pursuit of perfection, or purity, denying ones self of the pleasures of life, in the belief that these pleasure are wrong, to please some god is where religion has taken a wrong turn.

reply to post by poet1b

Why seek perfection

Why do we seek anything? Why is that we have so many needs - physical needs, emotional needs, intellectual needs and spiritual needs? Why is it that nobody is every really satisfied with what they have, and the proof of this is the incessant conflict in the world. Western man has all his needs catered to - physical, emotional, intellectual, and still he is thristy, why?
The answer to the why is he thrists for perfection. He will not gain satisfication until he has attained perfection and fulfillment.

But here is the snag you cannot fulfill a desire by doing what you desire, because it just creates more desire. This is the wisdom you should take from the Hindu and Buddhist teachings on Samsara. A desire is produced in you because you feel you lack something. This is why you feel you are imperfect and finite.

Can you create infinitiy ouf of infinite parts, or the whole out of parts? No, because infinite is always beyond its parts and the whole is partless.

So heres the snag - if you continue to live your life by fulfilling desire you will be doing it for eternity and you be forever dissatisfied. That's fine if you want to live in Samsara. But would you want to live in Samsara if you knew there was an infinitely better existence? Who would to live in a third world country, if they knew there was a first world country? The wise man strives for a better life.

You mistake that seeking perfection is denying conflict. On the contrary, seeking perfection means embracing conflict and struggle and every challenge on every level. This is what life is about. It is not about aimless pleasure-seeking, it is a struggle for perfection and this is why it is hard.
How many people want to constantly come back to the world? Not many. Once is enough. The world is a plane of suffering say the wise masters.
I know I don't want to keep coming back here!


On sex: There is nothing wrong with giving yourself pleasure, but its even better to give somebody else pleasure. Unfortunately, the sexual openness you deem as a virtue of the West, is the West's decline. Treating other as sexual objects for ones enjoyment is not virtue, it is vice. In Western civilisation we treat people as means to our ends, we objectify them and put a price on them, like pieces of meats. Is there any wonder why our civilisation is in such a mess? We are a spiritually impoverished society and a society self-destructing. The values we protect are the values that are leading to our destruction.

Why protect such destructive values?

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

You call yourself a child of god, and then you deny the father that is within all. Exactly what kind of god do you think you are a child of?

Hehe, my understanding of what god is far more complete and comprehensive than your understanding. I say that with as much modesty as I can. Your understanding is lacking a lot of steps, and until you do not realise that, you will stagnate spiritually.

If I may allow me to diagnose your spiritual problems, you can of course reject what I am saying, or you could be wise and see the truth in what I tell

You are missing too many steps in your understanding, you've sort of jumped ahead without realising those lower steps and hence you have an invalid foundation. You need to retrace your steps to the point where you started and start over. Spirituality is a science, and like all sciences it has logical steps. I will refer to the Chandogya Upanishad when Narad approaches Sanat Kumara on the same issue of "knowledge" Narad's problem is like yours - he has a lot of world-knowledge, but lacks meaning. He says, "I know every science, be it grammar, mathematics, astronomy, physics, art etc, but I still am dissatisfied" Sanat Kumara responds, "All that you know is name and forms only, just empty word knowledge and this is why your knowledge is unsatisfactory, but word-knowledge is the foundation of the quest for knowledge. So meditate on "name" and you will become aware of every word-object in the world. Narada asks if there is anything beyond name. "Yes, beyond name is speech, all names are expressions of speech. Every word-object in the world is a construction through language. Meditate on speech and you will become aware of every language#2. Narad asks if there is anything higher than speech. "Yes, mind is higher than speech. All speech are categories within the mind which arrange the objects. Mediate on mind and you will become aware of the categories" the dialogue continues with another ten steps described right to the point of infinity

This is what in Philosophy is called a transcendetal inquiry to regress from phenomenal content(name) to the highest point you can take it logically. For Kant the highest point was the mind. For you, well you're stumped at name You're not even prepared to begin the inquiry and arrived at a conclusion already. Your logic is as follows:

Knowledge, therefore god.

It's as unsophisticated and primitive as creation, therefore god. Just as the scientist has advanced beyond the primitive ramblings of the bible on how creation happens and been able to map out many of the steps(supersymmetry, big bang, expansion etc) likewise cognitive scientists have been able to map out much of the steps in the mind that allow knowledge to happen. None of them require the intervention of a ficitious god entity. Those who do requie the ficitious god entity are superstitious and need to grow up. Hint...

As an Aryan I have a near complete understanding of all the logical steps on how creation happens and how knowledge happens(a clue for you, they are related) thanks to the wealth of knowledge I have gained from the Aryans. Which you too can benefit from once you get past your ego.

I do not need a god-entity as you understand it in my universe. In my universe god is a supreme and absolute reality - a super coherent and dynamic state which projects a holographic representation we call creation. I am a child and spark of that divinity. I am one with that divinity.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by badmedia

Perfection is nonsense

That is like calling god nonsense. You see, I told you you were not enlightened

The techniques are perhaps learned

Thank you, and that is exactly what I was looking for. You learned how to meditate from the Aryan teachings(Gnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, new-age) and if you had not learned how to meditate from them, you would have no understanding of father, period.

Now don't tell me meditation is obvious, I've already shown you nothing is obvious. If it was so obvious everybody would be doing it. Meditation is a technology which was developed by the Aryans from a scientific analysis of the mind. They studied the relationship between the objective world and subjective world, the relationship between thought and breath, the anatomy of the body, the brain and its mechanisms, before they created the technique for the benefit of people who wanted to practice spirituality and attain enlightenment.

You should be more appreciative of what the Aryans did for you(I stole that line from the BBC program on what the ancients did for us)
If there were no Aryans we would have no science, mathematics, philosophy and spirituality, democracy and freedom. We would still be in the dark ages worshipping some Abrahamic god-men. Unfortunately, because people today are willfully giving up their freedom, we will be back in a dark age in no time(see 2010-2012: Depopulation)

Stop protecting the destructive Abrahamic ideology, geez.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

The techniques are perhaps learned

Thank you, and that is exactly what I was looking for. You learned how to meditate from the Aryan teachings(Gnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, new-age) and if you had not learned how to meditate from them, you would have no understanding of father, period.

Do you have trouble comprehending what I post? I told you multiple times I don't meditate at all or anything like it.

And everything with you is always about claiming anything being good is Aryan teachings.

I don't care, and at the end of the day nobody else probably does either. It's pointless to even talk to you. You don't debate or talk to people, you debate and talk to the assumptions you make on them, and then ignore someone when they tell you the assumptions are wrong. Taking half my sentences and quoting that and wow.

You are more dogmatic than some of the worse Christians.

Good luck and all that, I have better things to do.


[edit on 3-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia



Sorry, you are correct, you did in fact say you did not meditate. Yet at the same time are extolling meditation as the source of knowledge? Why would you extoll something you don't even do yourself?

I don't mind if you call me dogmatic, as long as I can call you egotistical. You claim to have realised the same knowledge Jesus and Buddha did and have reached great spiritual understandings all by yourself, no meditation, no reading books, you got it all from within you, and later when you read Jesus and Buddha you realised they agreed with you. Sorry, but listen to yourself. It would be an understatement to say you have an ego problem.

You did not come up with any of your knowledge by yourself. Period. To say otherwise is plaigiarism and a civil offense mind you. Anybody here can look at the original sources and see where you got your information from. Just as they can look at the original sources for my information and see where I get it from, the difference is, I give credit to my sources. While you don't - which is why it is plaigiarism.

You know what I think of your "enlightenment" already, so there is no need repeating myself. When sense prevails do take a second look at my earlier advice. Thank you for your discussion

To bring this thread back on topic. The debate between you and I started because you quite arrogantly claimed we don't need social institutions and education to learn, we can do it all by ourselves, like you claim to have done. Yeah right buddy, I would like to see you rediscover Einstein's theory of relativity without studying any physics whatsoever. Go ask "Father".

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


We seek out things because that is how we learn from life. This is the whole purpose for living. A great many people are satisfied, often. Western man doesn't thirst for perfection, he thirst for challenge, new ways to test himself, to continue learning and growing. While pleasure is nice, you will find that most Westerners want challenge more than pleasure and that accomplishing things is what brings people the most satisfaction. The desire to be challenged is what has enabled Western Men to accomplish so many amazing things.

You most certainly can satisfy a desire by doing what you desire. The key is to enjoy what you have done when the moment arrives. This is why celebration is a virtue.

Here is what you are missing. You can only remain satisfied for so long. This goal of perfection where you reach some nirvana, and spend eternity in blissful satisfaction is extremely unrealistic. Eventually, you will get bored. Take it from me, I have lived blissful periods of life here on Earth, and eventually I got bored. The idea that you could live for an eternity in bliss is completely contrary to everything we know about the nature cycles of the world. Your emotional cycles from happiness to sadness are as natural as the tides.

While seeking perfection might be embracing conflict and challenge, achieving perfection ends all conflicts and challenges. Once you achieve perfection, there is no place else to go, no other challenges to take on. You become static.

When it comes to sex, the old saying, giving is better than receiving, very much applies. The more pleasure you give, the more you get back. Those who are wise and know how to live don't treat others as a means to an end, as objects, they treat others as partners, team members, family. If you are wise you see your lover as your partner, and you work together for your mutual pleasure. You see your co-worker as your team mate, and you work together for your mutual success. Those people who treat others like meat, as something to be used, or something to be ignored, as something less than they are, are people who have failed to develop wisdom, and an understanding of life.

Those people who have learned to see the world as a good thing, to see others as partners and friends to share in the enjoyment of life, do not see our life on Earth as a plane of suffering, they see life as a great experience.

If you see life on Earth as a plane of suffering, something you would not want to repeat, then you are greatly missing out on this great gift of life.

Personally, I would like to live much longer, I love life. My hope is that in the next life, I go to a higher level, where there are even greater challenges, and greater possibilities.

And I had to edit because I forgot to add.

I hope in the next life, along with greater challenges and possibilities, and I can also find greater pleasures.



[edit on 3-5-2009 by poet1b]

We seek out things because that is how we learn from life. This is the whole purpose for living. A great many people are satisfied, often. Western man doesn't thirst for perfection, he thirst for challenge, new ways to test himself, to continue learning and growing. While pleasure is nice, you will find that most Westerners want challenge more than pleasure and that accomplishing things is what brings people the most satisfaction. The desire to be challenged is what has enabled Western Men to accomplish so many amazing things.

You most certainly can satisfy a desire by doing what you desire. The key is to enjoy what you have done when the moment arrives. This is why celebration is a virtue.

Hehe, you are very optimistic. I am neither an optimist or a pessimest. I am a rationalist. You are telling me people are satisfied, because this goes against facts. Nobody is satisfied, everybody is consuming all the time because they are being told that their life would be incomplete if they did not buy the latest gadgets, clothes, have sex n number of times with an attractive partner, lose weight. America, the leader of the Western world, is a complete mess. If people were satisfied, it would not be a mess.
Indeed, if satisfaction possible the world would not have been constantly at war for the last 5000 years.

You cannot be satisfied in the world. The more desires you fulfill, the more desires you create. The Hindu and Buddhists are right you do not fulfill a desire by doing it. If you are a smoker and you want to fulfill your desire to smoke and then quit, you are not going to do that by smoking more. It will just make you want to smoke more.

Here is what you are missing. You can only remain satisfied for so long. This goal of perfection where you reach some nirvana, and spend eternity in blissful satisfaction is extremely unrealistic. Eventually, you will get bored. Take it from me, I have lived blissful periods of life here on Earth, and eventually I got bored. The idea that you could live for an eternity in bliss is completely contrary to everything we know about the nature cycles of the world. Your emotional cycles from happiness to sadness are as natural as the tides.

Well you admit here that you cannot actually be satisfied with anything, you will inevitable get bored. It is true indeed, nothing in the world is satisfying which is why we suffer here. You say that if we reach the goal of perfection or nirvana and eternal bliss, that eventually you will get bored? That is logically impossible. If you reached perfection, you are perfect, this means you have no lack of anything. You would only be bored if you had a lack of something. Therein likes the kicker - if you attain Nirvana you wiill never be unsatisfied again.

The perfect and infinite being is EVERYTHING at once. It is experiences EVERYTHING at once. It lacks nothing. This is why the experience of becoming one with the absolute is something strived for by wise people.

While seeking perfection might be embracing conflict and challenge, achieving perfection ends all conflicts and challenges. Once you achieve perfection, there is no place else to go, no other challenges to take on. You become static.

And that is where the contentment lies. If you are sad you are discontent, if you are happy, you are still discontent. If you are content, you are content.

When it comes to sex, the old saying, giving is better than receiving, very much applies. The more pleasure you give, the more you get back. Those who are wise and know how to live don't treat others as a means to an end, as objects, they treat others as partners, team members, family. If you are wise you see your lover as your partner, and you work together for your mutual pleasure. You see your co-worker as your team mate, and you work together for your mutual success. Those people who treat others like meat, as something to be used, or something to be ignored, as something less than they are, are people who have failed to develop wisdom, and an understanding of life.

I agree, what you describe now is love not lust. The problem is Western society is all about lust today, so its kind of sexual liberty is not a virtue, but a vice.

Those people who have learned to see the world as a good thing, to see others as partners and friends to share in the enjoyment of life, do not see our life on Earth as a plane of suffering, they see life as a great experience.

If you see life on Earth as a plane of suffering, something you would not want to repeat, then you are greatly missing out on this great gift of life.

My friend, tell this to 70% of the worlds population that lives on less than 2 dollars a day and 90% of the newborns on this planet which are born in abject povery. What about the tens of millions of Iraqis which are caught up in civil war are being gunned down by US troops? This world is a hell-hole. It is no gift to be here, for most it is a curse. This is a fact of the world the Westerner has to face. Just because they have a high standard of life does not change the fact for most people life is hell, and that is also because our standard of life comes at their expense. Soon, life is going to be hell for Western people as well.

You will change your outlook on life immediately as soon as you have witness at least half of the things people in third world countries do, and that time is not far at all. In 1-2 years the West is going to go down the drain.

Personally, I would like to live much longer, I love life. My hope is that in the next life, I go to a higher level, where there are even greater challenges, and greater possibilities.

I would want to live longer as well, but only so I can concentrate on my spiritual development so I do not have to come back again. The pleasures you speak of are not really pleasure but pain. The greatest gift you can give your soul is no pleasure. A bit of a paradox, eh? Your soul is a prisoner of its mind. The mind forces it to do things that are against its nature. It is the mind that seeks pleasure and it the soul that seeks freedom from the mind. Once you control your mind by controling your desires your soul will gain that freedom and that is when you will experience pure bliss and pure existence. That is your destiny, that is everybodies destiny.

Of course I am not going to impose this on you. It sounds like you still want to experience pleasure and more pleasure. Once you realise that you can never be satisfied by them in how many life times it takes you to realise this, you will begin to do what you are here to do - evolve. This is the purpose of life and the only way to do it is by controlling your desires and mind and unlocking the highter potential. You cannot go higher by living a life of pleasure-seeking. The only way to go higher is by living a spiritual life.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


I know plenty of people who enjoy life, and even love life, and are happy, satisfied people most of the time, including myself. You don't have to believe this if you don't want to, but that is your loss.

No one is happy and satisfied all the time. Maybe you think that you can achieve some level of perfection and be happy and satisfied forever, but I think that is nonsense. If you were perfect before you were born, as your higher self, then why come to this world in the first place?

You admit that cycles are the natural order of things, and that all things go through cycles, so why in the world would you think that your emotions would not go through the same natural cycles as everything else in this world?

There are plenty of people in third world nations who are happy and satisfied with life, people with very little in the arena of possession, but are rich in wisdom, and the knowledge of how to enjoy life.

The miseries of this world are cause by people who never learned to enjoy life. These people are obsessed by their egos, and can never be happy in this world because they seek something that does not exist, mostly a higher power that puts them above everyone else.

I did not admit that I could not be satisfied, in fact I point blank told you that I am happy and satisfied often, I will add most of the time. What I told you is that you can not be satisfied and happy all of the time, it simply is not natural.

You should learn to find happiness and satisfaction in this world, in this life that you are currently leading if you want to grow as a person. You can find these things through pleasurable experiences, but mostly you will find these things through accomplishment. When you find these things, enjoy them while you can, and continue on with the nature cycle of life. You will not learn anything avoiding the pleasures of life and the satisfactions that come with accomplishments, while seeking out perfection. There is a reason you made this journey in the first place.

Forget about the next world, and start concentrating on living the life you are lucky enough to experience.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Indigo_Child

 

You are making too many assumptions. Let me point them out:

I know plenty of people who enjoy life, and even love life, and are happy, satisfied people most of the time, including myself.

If you were perfect before you were born, as your higher self, then why come to this world in the first place?

You admit that cycles are the natural order of things, and that all things go through cycles, so why in the world would you think that your emotions would not go through the same natural cycles as everything else in this world?

What I told you is that you can not be satisfied and happy all of the time, it simply is not natural.

1) I am willing to wager that the people you know would be very unhappy people if the things that that make them happy were taken away from them. If you find your happiness upon temporal things, your happiness too becomes a temporal thing. This is not real happiness, and such a person who relies on it will be inevitably disappointed.

2) The world is not real. You never came into the world. You are never born and nor do you die. This is nothing but an illusion that takes place when the soul associates itself with the body. If you are your body, then tell me what happend to the body you had 20 years ago? Gone. The body has gone but the "you" is still there. You will go through innumerable bodies like changing of costume, but the "you" will always remain. To realise who "you" are is the purpose of life. Your biggest blunder is to assume that that your false-ego is the real you. You are feeding the wrong animal.

3) Everything in the world goes in cycles because everything in the world is caused by time. You are living in a temporal world, and in this world everything that happens is temporal. So emotions are temporal too. The wise man is he who remains in the same steady state both in pain and in pleasure. You are not the world, the world is temporal, but you are constant. Find that stillness within.

Read on Ramana Maharishi, especially his book entitled, "Who am I" it will help clarify this for you.

4) You are not a natural being, you are a spiritual being. The law of nature is to change, and the law of spirit is to live. The spirit does not change, it is nature that changes. Just as the true state of the ocean is stillness in the absence of other forces, the true state of being is stillness in the absence of thought.

Forget about the next world, and start concentrating on living the life you are lucky enough to experience.

Here we agree actually, well kind of. Life is always in the eternal present, but you will eventually realise that you are never in the present, you either are in the past or in the future. Find the eternal present and you will have found the life.

I have transcended many of my baser desires and now can live without luxuries, without reliance on sense objects and even sex. They do not give me pleasure. I have found within me a more pure and evolved state and I know as I transcend them further, I will evolve more. If you resist the temptations you will continue to graduate in the school of life. This is a true spiritual life, and not everybody is cut out for it, but it is everybodies destiny and people will have to come around to it at some point. Everybody has to grow up someday.

Live your life in a noble way living a life of virtue in harmony with the universe and you will prosper. I guarantee it. To learn to live a life like that read the Vedas, Upaishads and the Gita. They were written especially to help people live a noble and spiritual life. If more and more people lived a noble life on this planet, we would raise the consciousness of this planet and this planet would become a catalyst for spiritual growth, rather than a hinderance that it is now. Trust me, I do not appreciate the people on this planet, they are ignorant, immature and demonic, and they holding me back in my own development. It is because of them that I too will have to witness the hell that is coming our way within the next few years. I am going to try my best to retain my spirituality in these testing times, but I am only human, I hurt and falter like any other human.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Then again, maybe you are making too many assumptions, and I am right and you are wrong about the nature of the universe. Some day we may know.

Yes, if you took everything away from a happy person that they hold dearest, children, wife, family, and health, even a very solid, wise person would despair at least for a while. If you took away that persons wealth, that would probably not nearly affect such a person so seriously as you seem to believe. People who concern themselves with living a full and rewarding life usually are not all that materialistic. There are some blows that we never recover from, but a wise and capable human being would try very hard.

In the after life, should we meet, I will try not to gloat about you being wrong about the existence of time in the next plane. Yes, our perspective of time will be different in the next life, but it will still be a factor. The ancient Druids clearly believed that time existed in the other worlds where we would go after death. The Mabinogion is another book I recommend if you want to learn more about the beliefs of the ancient Druids. How time plays out in the higher worlds is an important part of a couple of the inter-related stories.

You should be able to live without luxuries to enjoy a good life, but there is not reason to deny yourself of the just fruits of your labors and ideas. It is good to learn and read everything you can, but there is no required reading to learn how to become a good person and live a noble life. The wisdom of the ages is all around us, and although they try, evil men have yet to eliminate the ways for men to continue to improve themselves.

I hope your attitudes about most of humanity is not that dark. We are going through a difficult period in humanities development, but many things are coming to a fruition, and I think we will come out of all of this stronger and better than ever. I hope we see more of a revival of the kind of spiritualism we are discussing.

reply to post by poet1b


Hehe, we are both talking about unobservables, and both claming to know we know what the unobservable is. Is there anyway to test our claims? There is, check for consistency and completeness. If one account is able to explain every kind of phenomena in the world in a clear, logical and consistent way, then it has more validity and completeness. I think so far, as far as that consideration is concerned, I am more likely to be right

You admit that that if somebody loses something they cherish they become unhappy and it hard to digest. This is why I said that this happiness is temporal and any happiness found on temporal things is a false happiness and cannot bring us satification, only suffering. True happiness is found in realising the self and finding that stillness within. Let's test it:

Subject A gets happiness from things in the world. He is in a happy relationship with the love of his life. One day he realises that she does not love him anymore and has cheated on them. He is no longer in a happy relationship, has no love and is no longer happy

Subject B gets happiness from inner contentment. He is in a happy relationship with the love of his life. One day he realises that she does not love him anymore and has cheated on him. He accepts it with humility, recognising that his relationship with his lover was only going to last this long - all good things come to an end - he takes it in his stride and remains in his state of happiness.

Who is the more wiser? It is clear that it is subject B. Subject B has found happiness in something more enduring than things in the world. Does it not make logical sense? The wise do not rely upon the world to be happy, they rely on only their self and once they find the self, they can never be unhappy.

As regards to us meeting in the next plane. I never said there is no time in the next plane, I believe what I said is that there is time on all levels of reality, but flowing at different speeds. In fact what I said was that time is not real, not that it does not exist. It becomes infinite when you are situated in the higher self, because you become aware of past, present and future in a moment. You exist simultaneously in every universe. You are than omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. You become one with Brahman.

All of the dual realities are unreal, this includes the physical, astral, as well as the causal, they differ only slightly from each other Your soul will indeed survive the death of the body, but your personality will be destroyed with the death of your body. Your astral-self exists outside of the body and is distinct from all body personalities you've had. Let's test this:

You have had innumerable bodily personalities in your spiritual life. Which one is those is your true personality after you die? The most recent one, the first one, or the ones in-between? None of them are. Your astral self is independent of body-personalities. Who and what your astral self is can only be known after death. Just do not assume it is going to be Poet1b

There is no set reading to live a noble life, this is true, but I only say so because there are a lot of texts in the entire universe and not just the Aryan texts. However, the best texts we have with the most complete knowledge are the Aryan texts. It is from these texts all other spiritual texts have descended(Druid, Gnostic, new-age etc) so it is very important to read the primary texts. As I was saying to badmedia, it is absolutely mandatory that we get an education to learn how to become noble. The difference between a wise man and a savage man is the wise man has an education.

The education we get today is from the Abrahamic ideology and they have infiltrated everyone of our belief systems. It is not a Pagan belief to be hedonist(sex and wine) but modern Paganism believes it is, that is because they their history has been corrupted. Most people still believe they are sacrificed humans and ate babies. It is not a Hindu belief to be dualist and believe in a creator god, but most Modern Hindu do believe this, again because their history has been corrupted. There is not a single religion which has not been corrupted. This is why we need to start over, go back to the original source of our civilisation: Our Aryan heritage.

Common myths that Abrahamic ideology teaches us

1. Survival of the fittest: Incorrect. Life is not about surivival, but spiritual growth.
2. We are imperfect beings, sinners: Incorrect. We are perfect and divine beings. Not one of us is a sinner.
3. You are body and only have physical desies: Incorrect. We are spiritual beings and have spiritual desires to grow in wisdom and love.
4. You are born unequal: Incorrect. We are all equal.
5. Conflict and Violence is good: Incorrect. Cooperation is good.
6. Worship authority: Incorrect. Rever only the divine.
7. You need things to keep you happy: Incorrect. Happiness does not come from things, happiness comes from self-contentment.
8. Power, greed are human: Incorrect, compassion and charity is human.

Notice just how anti-human the Abrahamic ideology is. This is no coincidence. The elite masters hate humanity. They are inhuman, satanic, and treat humans as nothing more than a food-source.

Their rule has to end and the only antidote is resurrection of Aryan culture.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Subject A - his wife cheats on him, he doesn't care, it is just sex. There is no reason that a couple can't occasionally find some sexual happiness outside of the relationship. Occasionally she strays, occasionally he strays, no big deal. If she decides to leave him, he is sad for awhile, and then goes and finds another woman.

Subject B - His wife cheats on him and leaves him, and all he is going to do is meditate, and tell himself he feels better? Ouch.

Western is not Abrahamic.

Who has the caste system, and who has a government based on the ideology that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights? Which culture do you think is more enlightened?

A revival of Western spiritual beliefs is what we need, and what has been going on for a couple of centuries now. There is nothing wrong from learning from Eastern spiritualism, but Eastern spiritualism should not dictate how Western spiritualism takes on a new shape.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Indigo_Child

 

You are very stubborn. I like your tenacity, but(there is always a but) you might want to relax on your beliefs and re-evaulate them with clear thinking.

Note in my example that the premise of Subject A is that they find happiness from outside. So if they lose what gives them happiness - such as their lover - it is going to impact them. Many people commit suicide over such happenings.

You are very optmistic and seem to be a staunch advocate of free love. However, I am a rationalitst. I know that it is never "just sex" free love is shown empirically to be a destructive way of life. It inevitably leads to dysfunctional relationships.

Now to expand on the main point that I presented the example for. If you base your happiness on ouside things, you will never be satisfied. You suggest that if a woman leaves a man, the man just finds another woman, what is the man can't find another woman as good as his last woman? Then depression kicks in. These are facts of life, I'm afraid. If we experience a high, and have tasted a pleasure so great, we hanker in our life to reexperience that pleasure.

The line between pleasure and pain is a blurred one, what was once pleasurable becomes painful when we find greater pleasure. History abounds in the destruction of pleasure-seeking societies and individuals. Do you recall the fall of Rome? The fall of Hitler? The obsession for pleasure is a recipe for disaster.

I recall one philosopher or poet who once said life was like chasing an empty wind, and another who said life is like a dog chasing its tail. That is what a pleasure-seeking life is. You'll just go around in circles forever

Subject B - His wife cheats on him and leaves him, and all he is going to do is meditate, and tell himself he feels better? Ouch.

No, if his wife cheats on him and leaves him, it does not perturb him, because he accepts that the world is temporal. Nothing is permenant in the world and thus the changing tides of the world do not affect him. The wise man is the one who remains calm in both calamity and celebration.

You apparently love Samsara

Western is not Abrahamic.

Who has the caste system, and who has a government based on the ideology that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights? Which culture do you think is more enlightened?

The West today is definitely Abrahamic. A look at the history of the West will demonstrate this. The West was a part of Indo-European culture(Aryans) and it was predominatly pagan, nature worshipping and goddess worshipping. Then it was taken over by Abrahamic religion from the Middle East, the Pagans was slaughtered and called heretics. Since then the West has been under Abrahamic rule.

The values that you think are Western are in fact Abrahamic. You are protecting the same values that enslaved your ancestors.

A revival of Western spiritual beliefs is what we need, and what has been going on for a couple of centuries now. There is nothing wrong from learning from Eastern spiritualism, but Eastern spiritualism should not dictate how Western spiritualism takes on a new shape.

If there is anything you could have learned from this thread. The West and the East are the same culture. That culture is nothing like the culture you are defending. You are defending Abrahamic culture, without realising that you are

What freedom and equality are you talking about in Western society? How is it any different to the caste system. About 1% of Western society owns all the money, power and resources and belong to elite families with bloodlines going back thousands of years, while 99% own nothing and only give their labour to them. Wheres the equality in that? Freedom? We are living in a open-prison society, where everybody is made to conform to the authority and become automotons.

This was not what Aryan society was like prior to the Abrahamic enslavement. We had free societies, where elders/wise men were reveered and everybody enjoyed equal tights.

The caste system like the capitalist system have been imposed on us to control us, alienates and dehumanize us. This is why I said at the beginning of this thread has been a master conspiracy, so succesfull that nobody knows about it, to completely suppress humanity.

You obviously do not like the association of the West with the East and would prefer to see them as separate entities. Likewise, I am sure the East would not like to be associated with the West. This is called alienation - competing with each other, rather than against your masters.
The history is unanimous, the so-called West and the so-called East are two peas of the same pod. We can trace all our languages to Sanskrit and cultures to Vedic religion and our homeland to the foothills of the Himalayas. We're all family

I shall stop now because I realise you are convinced of your views and you are entitled to your own views

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Yes, I recognize that your example of premise A is an attempt to set up a strawman argument, but but the person I am talking about isn't the materialistic hopeless fool that you want to describe. Happiness doesn't come only from within or only from outside influences. Your beliefs always require you to view the world in extremes.

If you measure your happiness by the quality of your woman, or whatever, then you will never be happy. You weren't happy with your previous woman, and you won't be happy with the next if you are always thinking that you must have something better. If you were happy with your first woman, you will be happy with your next. The woman does not create the happiness, she increases it.

If your example B guys happiness does not include his woman, then he will never have a woman, because a big part of what makes people happy is the belief that they make others happy, especially their significant other.

Life is also about sharing, sharing time and experiences together. If you only concentrate on the interior, higher self, then you miss out on the exterior world which you can share with others.

Western civilization broke free from Abrahamic control centuries ago. The church controlled world was the world of the divine rights of Kings, the protestant world has become one where we try to believe in equality, where we can all search for God on our own terms. This is a step ahead of even the Hindu world.

You need to stop being so binary, we live in an analog world.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Indigo_Child

 

It is not a strawman really. It is simply demonstrating a fact that you cannot gain happiness from temporal things. You can replace woman with any other object or person, and you still cannot be happy with outside things. That is because happiness is not something outside of you.

Do you know of an object called happiness floating outside? Nope, there is no such object, because happiness is something that is a part of our self. Here is a good definition of happiness from the Upanishad, "Happiness is the totality of being"

I think you have a lot to learn and it won't hurt you if looked at some Buddhist and Hindu teachings

If your example B guys happiness does not include his woman, then he will never have a woman, because a big part of what makes people happy is the belief that they make others happy, especially their significant other.

Person B does not need anything external to make him happy. This is why he is a wise person. You cannot disturb his happiness, because it is independent of the world. Your happiness on the other hand can easily be disturbed. It needn't be said who is wiser. Person B can still have a partner, but the difference is, he truly loves his parter, because he has no self-interest in her. Rather he is completely selfless.

Person B is a saint they give to others and never take anything. They are driven by divine impulse itself. Person B is a taker and they are driven by selfish interest.

Life is also about sharing, sharing time and experiences together. If you only concentrate on the interior, higher self, then you miss out on the exterior world which you can share with others.

There is no real exterior world. You are living in a bubble, and it is only a matter of time before it bursts

Western civilization broke free from Abrahamic control centuries ago. The church controlled world was the world of the divine rights of Kings, the protestant world has become one where we try to believe in equality, where we can all search for God on our own terms. This is a step ahead of even the Hindu world.

Then you have a naive understanding of what Abrahamic religion is. It has nothing to with any supernatural belief system. You would be surprised if you heard the views of many Archbishops of the Church, they don't actually believe in god or Jesus. They think the bible is a myth, but still think it important as a means of social control. The Abrahamic religion is a religion where god is killed by man and man becomes god. Abrahamic religion has continued in the form of Industrial capitalism, where the new preistly class are wealthy and powerful bankers and the peasents are the masses. Read up on Protestant ethic and Capitalism(Weber). Why else do you think Capitalism and Christianity went hand in hand in colonialism?

Abrahamic religion has always been about the cult of ego. It is satanism. A religion of death and destruction. Read up on the Vatician, it is the epicentre of the evil in this world.

We are under Abrahamic ideology, period. The elite worship Abrahamic and satanic deities. See Bohimen Grove, Skull and Bones, and CIA and satanic rituals.

Your model of reality is so far from the truth it is funny. You have a naive and optimistic view of the world. In reality this world is a hell-hole controlled by very evil people and most people suffer on this planet. I need not point out again that 70% of the people on this planet live on less than 2 dollars a day. Get real, geez.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Happiness isn't a thing period, it is an emotion, a feeling, that can be triggered from within or without.

Sharing your life with others is very important way of finding happiness.

Person B isn't all that wise if he can not allow others to give to him. Life should be give and take, that is how we share happiness with others, and that is a very big part of life, that no one should deny themselves. people want to please as much as they want to be pleased.

I first studied Buddhism and Hinduism when I was ten. I would think you might have figured that out by now. It didn't take me long to figure out that this whole inner peace and happiness thing was a lonely way of life. It is more important for you to learn how to share and enjoy life with others than it is to find inner peace and happiness.

A majority of Westerner's do not follow the church all, and the church lost control of the masses long ago. Even most Christians in the first world nations tend to believe in Christ in far different ways than the Catholic church teaches.