Russian death squads 'pulverise' Chechens

Originally posted by Harlequin
and what about the USAF officers from barksdale who have ALL died in `accidents` because they knew the real location the `missing` nuclear warheads ended up?

There are no "missing" nukes. 6 left Minot, and all 6 were recovered in Barksdale. The whole missing nuke story got started because MSNBC is retarded and reported 5 were retrieved and every two bit site on the web ran with it.

Regarding the "mysterious" deaths connected with that incident, the only person stationed at Minot or Barksale with a strange coincidental death was Todd Blue an enlisted MP who committed suicide on leave about 10 days later.

I saw in the threads, people were trying to make these tenuous connections with deaths months before the incident, as well as the deaths of AF personnel stationed in other states like FL, OR, and Alaska, with zero evidence they were connected to the nuke mishap. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the AF. A few die every month of the year, every year. More often due to accidents and suicide rather than natural causes. Not many active duty over the age of about 45-50, except for general officers.

Originally posted by Harlequinbut oh no the usa would never assasinate anyone since its whiter than white

The shadow govt has killed a Sec of Defense, James Forrestal. They sure don't have problems taking care of things, but the Minot-Barksdale assassination theory is weak. That's not to say I think the Air Force told us the whole story, but there is no logical reason to think all these people somehow knew something and were silenced. Have you really looked into this, or just repeating what you've heard ? But this is all way off topic, so maybe you can start a new thread and we'll continue this discussion there.

Originally posted by BSG75
I could accept the fact that they killed the women, but why did they kill the girls and non-combatants?

That is not war


That is genocide

That is not genocide. That is an atrocity.
Not that that makes it any less significant or less of a crime.
But let's not confuse apples with pears now.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by BLV12]

reply to post by Schaden


don`t need to start a new thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and they seem to disagree with your theory on that one

Originally posted by maloy
Until proof of such torture exists - no. Sure war crimes have been committed, but no one documented them. On the other hand crimes like the terrorist attack in Beslan by Chechen rebels were very well documented. After Beslan it is difficult for anyone to speak out against Russian anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya.

Mate who you tryna fool?

Documented Or Not well documentated the whole world knows about chechen massacres that took place by russian forces.Russians practised the same methods that they used killing innocent civillians in afghanistan early 1980's.Beslan is nothing compared to what took place in chechnya so stop hyping it up like it was a big deal.

Originally posted by BSG75
I could accept the fact that they killed the women, but why did they kill the girls and non-combatants?

That is not war


That is genocide

These people were terrorists, they should be treated as such...Your forgetting these are the people who would slice peoples throats and chop peoples heads off for not being a muslim.

It's also funny how Russia managed to totally crush the Chechens terrorists, i suppose it has nothing to do with how they deal with them (death). We should take a page from the Russian book and do exactly what the Russians would do to terrorists, kill every single last one...

Originally posted by SKUNK2

It's also funny how Russia managed to totally crush the Chechens terrorists, i suppose it has nothing to do with how they deal with them (death). We should take a page from the Russian book and do exactly what the Russians would do to terrorists, kill every single last one...

LOL, the killed far more innocent people than terrorists. The only reason Russia was successful was because Chechnya had a population of 400 000 people less than 10% of that of Baghdad. I doubt their tactics would work on a larger population.

Originally posted by merkava

Originally posted by maloy
Until proof of such torture exists - no. Sure war crimes have been committed, but no one documented them. On the other hand crimes like the terrorist attack in Beslan by Chechen rebels were very well documented. After Beslan it is difficult for anyone to speak out against Russian anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya.

Mate who you tryna fool?

Documented Or Not well documentated the whole world knows about chechen massacres that took place by russian forces.Russians practised the same methods that they used killing innocent civillians in afghanistan early 1980's.Beslan is nothing compared to what took place in chechnya so stop hyping it up like it was a big deal.

Does the whole world know how the Chechen terrorists also treated their own people, the Chechens? Does the whole world know about the daily kidnappings and killings and rapes?

Does the whole world also know how Russia has invested in rebuilding Chechnya?

Or does the whole world, in your opinion, only know about the big bad evil ruskies?

So the murder of innocent children, some of whom were shot in the back as they tried to flee to safety, is NOTHING?
Not a big deal?



Why is such obvious flame bait tolerated?
Never mind the fact he/she is being an insensitive, honourless troll, that only goes to highlight what sort of person he/she is. And never mind that there are Russian's on this forum who would be offended, because even I, as someone who was not affected by what happened in Beslan, am even shocked and appalled.

Would saying similar things regarding 9/11, Bali, the London or Madrid bombings be tolerated?

This is disgusting behaviour.

Originally posted by BLV12
Never mind the fact he/she is being an insensitive, honourless troll, that only goes to highlight what sort of person he/she is. And never mind that there are Russian's on this forum who would be offended, because even I, as someone who was not affected by what happened in Beslan, am even shocked and appalled.

You're lucky Beslan was caught on camera making it look like Russians are completely innocent. What we also know is that Russian atrocities in Chechnya were far more widespread and murdered far far more people than the Beslan massacre.
Alot of this is probably due to an undiscipined military as well as policy.

reply to post by rogue1


Undisciplined military?
From an expert on Russian atrocities to being a military expert. ATS has it all.

I take it the US military is undisciplined, given the scandal regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse and all the perverted poses US soldiers forced them into.
Or how about all the friendly fire incidents involving the US military killing friendly forces?
Or how about all the civilians the US has bombed? They have even bombed wedding parties.

I guess though for bigots those thing's are over looked.
Only find faults in your perceived enemies...aka what FOX news tell you.

Maybe you should spend some time digging up the facts on Falluja and what the US military really did there. And that's just one of the more "infamous" events of the Iraq occupation.

How does the old saying go? Fight fire with fire?


The problem isn't how to deal with terrorists. We all know how they should be dealt with. The real problem is finding out who is an actual terrorist.




I say patriot, you say terrorist.

Originally posted by rogue1
Alot of this is probably due to an undiscipined military as well as policy.

My college had a guest speaker. He was about 22, a Russian born immigrant and a PhD candidate in foreign relations. He talked about the ripe corruption in the Russian military, especially the army. New recruits are commonly forced into crime by higher ups.

Maloy, do you agree that the biggest crime in the history of the world was done in Russia, under communists? They killed 60 million people, mostly Christians! How can you display symbol of communism and request justice?

The Russian youth aren't told about the slaugter. It's not in the history books. There is a resurgence in the cult of his personality.

Joseph Stalin, one of the biggest mass murderers in human history, is cool again in Russia. In a recent poll to decide who was Russia’s greatest historical figure, Stalin came in third, behind medieval prince Alexander Nevsky and former prime minister Pyotr Stolypin. Stalin led the tally for months, according to the BBC, “until the show's producer appealed to viewers to vote for someone else.

In December, the BBC reports that police raided the offices of the human rights organization Memorial and seized a digital archive of Stalin’s atrocities. Irina Flige, office director of the organization, believes the raid was politically motivated. Flige told the BBC, “if the terror of Stalin is justified, then the government today can do what it wants to achieve its aims.”

www.utne.com...

They opened a museum dedicated to Stalin's legacy. No mention of the purges. Unless they lived through it, the common Russian citizen has no idea of the sheer brutality. Saddam Hussein modeled his leadership on Josef Stalin.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by Schaden]

more nonsense as usual from western media .

claims require proof . wheres the proof for the claim the newspaper is making

p.s.

Mark Franchetti is an russophobic journalist and is known for printing bu l l s h it

---
Mark Franchetti Fills His Stomach and Switches Off His Brain

Bloggerheads and others have already done great`work in exposing those journalists easily bought up by a billionaire's favour and hospitality.
b-heads.blogspot.com...

But crass Mark Franchetti wins the prize for rolling over in return for a chauffeured visit to a billionaire's mansion and indulging in "a lunch of lamb stew and red wine served by the butler in one of his private dining rooms, a hall lined with gilded central Asian vases." He then gives us a propaganda piece so cringeworthy as to be astonishing coming from a once great newspaper
www.craigmurray.org.uk...
----


[edit on 2-5-2009 by Kombatt98]

Originally posted by BLV12
reply to post by rogue1

 

Undisciplined military?

From an expert on Russian atrocities to being a military expert. ATS has it all.

I take it the US military is undisciplined, given the scandal regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse and all the perverted poses US soldiers forced them into.

Or how about all the friendly fire incidents involving the US military killing friendly forces?
Or how about all the civilians the US has bombed? They have even bombed wedding parties.

I guess though for bigots those thing's are over looked.
Only find faults in your perceived enemies...aka what FOX news tell you.

Maybe you should spend some time digging up the facts on Falluja and what the US military really did there. And that's just one of the more "infamous" events of the Iraq occupation.

Of course all this over looked by these retards.
After all Russia is the big bad evil bully, while america(i'm not spelling it with a capitol letter) is our savior and is gods country....

Originally posted by Magnivea
This has happened in Russia for a loooooong time. Have you ever watched Spetsnaz training videos? If they're not already insane they will be by the end of training. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not. Spetsnaz will always get the job done, no matter the cost.

Also, I'd tell you some of the methods they used on my grandfather's family to extract information during WW2, but I think I would be banned.

Yes the Russians and others have never needed an excuse to use torture and they move right over the water boarding thing. Its far to weak a method, in their mind, to extract reliable information. Nor is there any terror produced by the use of water boarding.

All that may wish to spin American use of water boarding as opening some sort of Pandoras box need to do some homework.

Americans using water boarding is like a child playing with "the box" in the movie "Hell Raiser"? Yea right.

Originally posted by SKUNK2

Originally posted by BLV12
reply to post by rogue1

 

Undisciplined military?

From an expert on Russian atrocities to being a military expert. ATS has it all.

I take it the US military is undisciplined, given the scandal regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse and all the perverted poses US soldiers forced them into.

Or how about all the friendly fire incidents involving the US military killing friendly forces?
Or how about all the civilians the US has bombed? They have even bombed wedding parties.

I guess though for bigots those thing's are over looked.
Only find faults in your perceived enemies...aka what FOX news tell you.

Maybe you should spend some time digging up the facts on Falluja and what the US military really did there. And that's just one of the more "infamous" events of the Iraq occupation.

Of course all this over looked by these retards.
After all Russia is the big bad evil bully, while america(i'm not spelling it with a capitol letter) is our savior and is gods country....

Truly folks, Russian military doctrine is much different in so many ways compared to US doctrine. And yes I know what I am talking about.

Falluja, a bold and very decisive military campaign, was tame compared to how Russians would have handled that situation. The Russian would have brought in several thousand artillery piece and just turned Falluja to dust and shot everyone trying to escape the city.

Americans were almost like boy scouts in comparison with their two week warning to leave the city and their door to door searches. Russians just come in and level every house on the block. Thats just the way they do things.

Originally posted by greshnik
Maloy, do you agree that the biggest crime in the history of the world was done in Russia, under communists?

Are you trying to troll? I know about the crimes committed by deranged individuals under the Soviet regime better than the vast majority of people on ATS. The majority of these crimes were carried out under two individuals - Stalin and Beria. Stalin was not so much a communist, but rather an outright tyrant and dictator. He didn't abide by communist ideals, but rather focused on creating his own megalomaniac empire. The communist leaders that came after him were by no measure saints or humanitarians, but nothing close to what was done under Stalin has been repeated.

As for the greatest crime in history - that is up for debate. Where did you get 60 million people? The numbers by different historical experts are all over the place. The Nazi invasion of Soviet Union on the other hand is known to have resulted in over 40 million deaths - and that's excluding non-Soviet casualties and German's own casualties. Surely the likes of Stalin and Beria vie for the top spot with Nazi leaders, but there is no historical consensus on the casualties of the Soviet regime.

Originally posted by greshnik
How can you display symbol of communism and request justice?

I have been over this already. I am not a communist and never was, and my avatar mearly represents a memento of time and place where I spend a good part of my life. Having lived in the USSR I can attest that it had its pluses and not only minuses. Overall it was a faulty system that was bound to fail from the get go because of its inherent weaknesses and incompatibility with the human nature. My avatar does not represent my views, but only serves as a reminder of something that should not be forgoted for the valuable lessons it provided.

Originally posted by Logarock
Truly folks, Russian military doctrine is much different in so many ways compared to US doctrine. And yes I know what I am talking about.

Quiet obviously it is different from the US doctrine, but for the most part it is not due to the things that you attribute this difference to, like torture for instance. Chechnya was not a torture fest like you and many others in the West make it out to be. It was a bloody, dirty, scary war. But the Russian military is not the Spanish Inquisition - and to claim otherwise would attest to one's ignorance.

Please explain how you "know what you are talking about"? Have you served in both the Russian and the US armed forces? Or have you relied on stories like the journalistic BS in this thread/

Originally posted by Logarock
Falluja, a bold and very decisive military campaign, was tame compared to how Russians would have handled that situation. The Russian would have brought in several thousand artillery piece and just turned Falluja to dust and shot everyone trying to escape the city.

Ah - I see we have an expert on the Russian military tactics and strategy. May I ask where you acquired such thorough knowledge? A Russian military academy? Personal insight from Russian officers and generals perhaps? Do not compare Faluja with Grozny. Do not compare the Russian military tactics of 1994 with the Russian military tactics of today. The circumstances of the two wars and two time periods are very different.

Originally posted by Logarock
Americans were almost like boy scouts in comparison with their two week warning to leave the city and their door to door searches. Russians just come in and level every house on the block. Thats just the way they do things.

You have just provided proof that you know next to absolutely nothing about the Russian tactics in Chechnya.

Lets's assume you are alluding to the Russian shelling and bombing of Grozny in 1994 and 1999. The Russians have tried taking the city without bombing for weeks and have been repelled being overwhelmed by the insurgents. After that the Russian troops have dropped leaflets and made multiple announcements that the city will be bombed and civilians must leave - the vast majority of whom did in fact leave. Only after that the shelling commenced.

Originally posted by BLV12
I take it the US military is undisciplined, given the scandal regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse and all the perverted poses US soldiers forced them into.

Or how about all the friendly fire incidents involving the US military killing friendly forces?
Or how about all the civilians the US has bombed? They have even bombed wedding parties.

And these have what to do with Chechnya, seems you have no other argument than put s**t on America

I guess though for bigots those thing's are over looked.
Only find faults in your perceived enemies...aka what FOX news tell you.

Actually no, I hvae read several books on Chechnya from Russian authors. Funny thing is you can't seem to give us any proof that Russia didn't commit widespread torture and killing of Chechan citizens.

Maybe you should spend some time digging up the facts on Falluja and what the US military really did there. And that's just one of the more "infamous" events of the Iraq occupation.

Yes I already know about Falluja, why bring it up here. The thread is about Russian attrocities in Chechnya which are well known. Please stop trolling and post something worthwhile reading, because to do you haven't.