conspiracy to keep people fat and unhealthy?

Keep in mind that anything pushed at the public through the mainstream media (tv, radio, magazines, newspaper, etc) is not safe. The PTB are in control of the mainstream media and they don't allow producers of healthy foods to advertise their products (a lot of details behind that that I won't go into at this time).

So the food that THEY want you to consume is what is bombarded at the public 24/7 and the food that is healthy for you... you will never see it unless you visit a healthfood store. There are brands of food there that you've probably never heard of because THEY don't want you to know it exists.

I have a rule never to purchase or consume anything I see on TV. As long as I keep to my list of safe foods and products, I stay healthy and was able to cure myself of depression (that I had for over 20 years).

Did you know that if you eat doritos and diet soda together, it causes brain damage? It's because you're mixing chemicals that are dangerous: msg, artificial colorings and aspartame (which is a biowarfare agent that the FDA approved as a sweetener for foods).

And it's not just the food that's poisoned. All of the mainstream personal care products and household products are toxic as well. Just go lookup the products you use and see how toxic they really are: www.cosmeticsdatabase.com.... Most of them contain neurotoxins and cancer-causing ingredients (and they claim to not know what causes alzheimers). While you're there, take a look at the products that are considered safe. Most of them are products you've probably never heard of.

Some people here need to stop pushing your ignorant opinions on this topic and go educate yourself.

reply to post by annestacey


I like that site you linked to, as it shows the level of how toxic some products are. While I haven't spent a lot of time reading it yet, it didn't specify the specific ingredient(s) that they consider to be toxic.

I didn't find some of the products I use listed, so I put in some more well known, advertised products, and sure enough they showed up.

Originally posted by Horus12
Sorry buts its fat lazy arsed people who keep themselves fat. Keeping active, exercising more as well as a good diet is whats needed. You can still eat meat and be healthy.

you'd be healthier if you didnt. but dont take my word for it - please read the china study and just see what you think of it. it changed my whole way of thinking about food and diet. the guy was on a very important advisory board in the us, which was supposed to inform the public about certain things, but it didnt. its really worth the read.

if i hadnt read it, i would probably still be saying what you're saying.

i also think theres something to the whole acid/alkaline balance theory for body health. meat is acidic; also it tends to get a bit stuck in our intestines and takes slower to digest than vegies/grains etc. this is cuz our intestines arent short etc like most carnivores, but more resemble vegetarian eating animals. as the meat sits there, it causes constipation and putrifies a bit; and the stuff seeps out of your intestine through its walls and goes into the rest of your body a bit. the fact that dairy isnt good for you you can tell cuz your mouth makes a lot more mucus when you eat dairy as opposed to a vegetable, in order to be able to digest it,e tc. (also commonsense: how many grown animals still drink thier mother's milk? stands to reason its not really natural then, and is bound to screw with your hormones - which it does - hence, breast cancer.)

think about plants - they need alkaline soil right? human body is similar. you dont want to let it get too acidic. hence the importance of lots of green vegies. and wheatgrass (yuck) juice. your blood has to maintain a certain ph no matter what or you die. it does this by buffering - so if your body's getting too acidic - it may pull say calcium out of your bones in order to maintain your blood ph through the buffering system. so as calcium and magnesium are in balance in your body - you might want to watch that your magnesium levels are ok if you've got osteoporosis; mg is found in green vegies i think - so not enough of those, body too acidic - calcium pulled out of bones - ; if you eat more green vegies - mg levels back - body not too acidic - no more calcium pulled out - sound okay?

well professor jane plant's written a book about osteoporosis and dairy - but she explains things much better than me. shes no quack either - shes got a cbe for science. (she has a different take on it to me - but i think it amounts to the same thing /type of diet in the end). you can check by reading the book tho if you want.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by rapunzel222

 

So if i want to stay slim i must avoid meat and dairy? Well i am slim and i eat meat and dairy so i think i'll stick to it thanks. Small amounts of these foods is perfectly fine. If i ate the diet you are going on about i would be so so bored, i want to have a little enjoyment in my life thanks.

Yeah, well life just sucks dont it. but thered be a lot of happier chickens around, u could take comfort from taht i guess. no, i said if you want to be HEALTHIER u shudnt eat meat and dairy. based on the book i read. you will be thin too, cuz its unavoidable. i used to eat meat/dairy and i was still thin too, but i feel much healthier now that i dont. u have to be careful on the diet - to make sure you get enough protein, so u need eggs, beans, lentils, chickpeas etc. corn. it doesnt have to be boring - the indians and the vietnamese have turned boring food into a yummy artform. they just add lots of spices. amazing how interesting they can make it taste. a bit of fish wont hurt u either , if u want to be on the diet but dont want to be vegetarian. course; what you choose to do is your business - im not telling you what to do.

im not saying im perfect - i even eat a bit of fish occasionally. i dont feel good about it but i do, cuz my family still eats fish sometimes. but i dont think its necessary if you eat enough eggs and the other foods i mentioned that give you protein - and eat enough of them.

Originally posted by Nightchild

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by rapunzel222
if we dont NEED to eat meat to be healthy, what justification do we have for killing so many animals?

Some people love the taste of DEATH, flesh and blood. Vampires I call them carnivorous. I can tell you first hand that you do not need to eat other life forms in order to exist. In fact, avoiding this sin, the consumption of other creatures, will make you healthy. And, it will go a long way karmically too if you avoid eating DEATH. Also, you can avoid natures wrath, prions, cancer, cholesterol, and things like swine and avian flu, and more, by giving up this horrible blood thirsty lifestyle of being a vampire. Convert, vampires, convert .. give up eating DEATH and you WILL feel a lot better about yourselves, physically, mentally, and morally.

You don't need to feed of other lifeforms? Well, if people don't need to eat either animals nor vegetables, then what are they supposed to eat, exactly?

Living on "light" like that Jamusheen is preaching, maybe?

In addition, it is interesting that one of the most healthy people on Earth are the Eskimoes, despite eating alot of meat, fats and eggs with sugar sprinkled upon.

Speaking of "Vampires"; The Maasais do not kill their prey, as they only tap the animal on the desired amount of blood that is wanted for consumption, and then patch it up and set it free again.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Nightchild]

no, u do need to eat other lifeforms. u got to eat plants, or youll die.
and if you're a lion, you got to eat meat or you'll die. or a dog.
but were humans, so we can, according to a few books i read - which were v convincing i thought - live mainly on vegetables and be at our healthiest.

eskimos do a lot of exercise; live in a v cold climate where they burn up lots of fuel just staying warm; and dont have many carcinogens around them id imagine. or other 'crap' chemicals in their food. sure you can live on meat and dairy (atho the fuel that your body runs on is actually stuff found mainly in vegetables; and required by your body) but its just not running at optimum performance. i dont know their lifespan either. japanese have a long life - eat a lot of seaweed.

some people eat whatever they like and live to 100; im not saying you wont. im just saying that studies show, that your body runs better on vegetables; and that meat/dairy ARE linked with disease - particularly if there are carcinogens etc around.

yeah; well, that could be an idea - live like a masai - ha. the solution for people who like animals but still want to eat meat.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
First off Rapunzel you are typical of the mouthy, brainwashed, biased, completely annoying vegetarian with your blanket statements and obviousl agenda and one liners.

Zosynspiracy, u are a wanker. i have no agenda, other than to try to stop cruelty to animals and make people think about what they do and the consequences of it. i cant force anyone to do anything; and i am new to this type of diet myself. my sister eats meat. i dont BLAME her, as i used to eat it myself. if people are going to change, they have to want to themselves; and they have to see the logic in it or reason for it (many people think - as you do - that meat is essential to the diet and healthy. after what ive read, i have come to believe it is not). im just trying to give people a few reasons to think about; which were the reasons that helped to pursuade me to change my habits. I am honestly trying to help you be healthy - as i care about people - and i believe that many people dont know about this - as i didnt. if people choose not to listen to what ive read - thats fine.

There is NOTHING wrong with meat. Lots of cultures for thousands of years have eaten meat. Same thing with dairy. Masai, Eskimos, Polynesians, Swiss of the Loeschantal Valley, etc. Meat has TONS of B-vitamins, iron and other beneficial nutrients and minerals. Raw dairy is one of the most perfect and healthiest foods you can put into your body. Along with eggs. Raw milk is a WHOLE FOOD! That means you can live off of it and NOTHING else. They used to use it to treat diabetes effectively before the creation of insulin.

Think about it for a minute - what other animal species drinks milk after its weaned. common sense should tell you that its NOT actually what nature intended for us. sure we can survive on it if we have to (and survival/hunger was probably how we came to start drinking it in the first place). but many many people are lactose intolerant. and theres a reason for that. we're not sposed to drink it. the chinese dont and their rates of breast cancer are very low. the dutch and scandanavians drink tons of it; and their rates are the highest.


The China study is bull# just like the 7th Day Adventist study you vegetarians quote non stop. All these studies have inherent bias and the manipulatin of statistics in them. I can point you to the Weston A. Price foundations website and disprove anything you say. But I won't because it's common sense. Whole food from pastured animals how mother nature intended is BEST! The only thing I agree with vegetarians about are the respect and humane treatment of animals. This is a MUST for quality food.

The china study isnt bull***. hes a reputable scientist and theres nothing wrong with his studies - i dont think anyone has suggested there is. but if they have, id be a bit suspect of them; given what he went through - and u can read that in his book. I have no idea what 7th day adventist study you're referring to. needless to say, im not a 7th day adventist. nor am i a complete vegetarian, as i eat fish sometimes, but only a tiny bit and only cuz my family still does.

Meat from pasture free range cattle is much lower in saturated fat and much higher in conjugated L-Acid. Dairy is not meant to be pasteurized plain and simple. Chickens are meant to be free and pastured so they can be the grub eating, insect eating, scavenging pickers that they are. Our food supply is the problem. If you want to be a vegetarian that's fine. But please don't argue it's healthier because that is pure and utter bull#! The highly processed food that is meant to sit on shelves for months on end is the problem. Not meat and dairy.

ps. the scientist who wrote the china study didnt like his findings at all. he grew up on a dairy farm and ate meat all his life and believed it was good for him. it took him a long time and lots of studies for him to believe the results he was seeing and to accept it. he felt obliged to tell people about his findings (even tho he knew that people on farms; dairy/meat industries wouldnt like it) becuz his results were so startling - particularly w/r to dairy and disease/breast cancer.

ps; before any more people have a go at me: when i said in my second post 'DONT EAT CHICKEN", that was advice; not an order. i dont have the power to order anyone; altho im not saying i wouldnt be tempted to if i could. = well i would at least order the closure of all battery /barn farms and make free range mandatory. but i think if we want to eat chicken we shud have to kill it ourselves; then maybe wed eat it less often and respect our animals more.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by rapunzel222]

Originally posted by rapunzel222
Yeah, well life just sucks dont it. but thered be a lot of happier chickens around, u could take comfort from taht i guess. no, i said if you want to be HEALTHIER u shudnt eat meat and dairy.

Well i'm sorry but i'd argue this point rather strongly. I have pointed out on many threads that top bodybuilders all eat meat, the top vegan bodybuilder is half their size. Shouldn't that tell you something about the human body? It operates best on a diet that has some meat. I'm not saying tons of meat, burgers at dawn and 18oz steaks of dinner, just some. Oh and forgive me but happy chickens? Chickens barely have the brain power to remember where they live, they aren't going to be feeling emotions like a human being is.

You might think that you don't need meat, but i wonder how much physical labour you have done. By that i mean true, exhausting labour day after day. I have tried the vegetarian diet and yes i was very careful to include all the things i needed but i still felt exhausted. I mixed grains, had eggs even dosed myself with a whey protein powder and yet still felt unwell. A bit of meat sorted it right away.Maybe this is because meat actually causes a hormonal response in the human body which is beneficial in many people but who knows what the reason is.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
im not saying im perfect - i even eat a bit of fish occasionally. i dont feel good about it but i do, cuz my family still eats fish sometimes. but i dont think its necessary if you eat enough eggs and the other foods i mentioned that give you protein - and eat enough of them.

Eggs? Well i like eggs however eating 4 a day wouldn't be to good for me. A nice bit of rabbit on the other hand would be extremely good for me, very low in fat, fat in this meat is almost non existent in fact and high protein. It's also had a good life which i find important.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by rapunzel222
you'd be healthier if you didnt. but dont take my word for it - please read the china study and just see what you think of it. it changed my whole way of thinking about food and diet. the guy was on a very important advisory board in the us, which was supposed to inform the public about certain things, but it didnt. its really worth the read.

if i hadnt read it, i would probably still be saying what you're saying.

Just speaking personally here, and only for myself as I have no desire to shove any opinion down anyone's throat or play dietary polizei...(attempting) living without meat proved almost fatal for ME. I was all on board the vegetarian/aiming for the Preisthood of Vegan bandwagon a few years back. I was trying to lose the last bit of baby weight from my last child, and thought cutting meat out was the way to go. I already did not eat a lot of meat, generally just one portion for dinner and maybe something meaty as a part of lunch, but I went gradually off meat, replacing my beloved chicken and lamb and goat and fish with guacamole and tofu and nuts.

Well, my body was NOT having it. I was weak, pale, emaciated and when I showed up to the doctor thinking I had come down with some superbug (because I had fed into the vegetarian is healthier campaign, how could *I* be sick, right?) I find out that I am TWO types of anemic. I was both B-12 and iron deficient anemic, and all this took place in a span of time shorter than 6 months of a hardcore vegetarian/vegan diet. My hair also lost lustre, my nails became brittle and broke easily and my skin looked horrible. My doctor demanded to know what I was doing dietary wise, and I told him and he then demanded that I go home and prepare some form of meat, preferably organ meat for supper along with the vegetables.

I think my problem was that I went basically cold turkey off of meat, and I jumped quickly into a vegan diet. I understand that veganism/vegetarianism works for MANY, many people and more power to all of you, but please don't think your way is the only way for the world and all of it's inhabitants. You may be preaching someone into ill heath and even death. I am a very active person and I am sorry, a few almonds and a sprinkle of pumpkin seeds with hummus is not doing it for a big country girl like me. Maybe it might work for more frail types with different requriments, and yes, I know there are Vegan bodybuilders; who are so only by taking tonnes of suppliments. I work hard, play hard and eat well now that I learned my lesson. I won't play with my health again. I am happy to say, I lost all the baby weight and then some eating a balanced omnivirous diet and exercising...and I am back to my svelte self, no fads needed.

www.soystache.com/plant.htm

the people who are saying that meat and dairy isnt bad for your health /or that there's no mainstream support of this, might be interested in this website:

www.soystache.com/plant.htm


[edit on 27-4-2009 by rapunzel222]

Originally posted by Seasick

Originally posted by rapunzel222
you'd be healthier if you didnt. but dont take my word for it - please read the china study and just see what you think of it. it changed my whole way of thinking about food and diet. the guy was on a very important advisory board in the us, which was supposed to inform the public about certain things, but it didnt. its really worth the read.

if i hadnt read it, i would probably still be saying what you're saying.

Just speaking personally here, and only for myself as I have no desire to shove any opinion down anyone's throat or play dietary polizei...(attempting) living without meat proved almost fatal for ME. I was all on board the vegetarian/aiming for the Preisthood of Vegan bandwagon a few years back. I was trying to lose the last bit of baby weight from my last child, and thought cutting meat out was the way to go. I already did not eat a lot of meat, generally just one portion for dinner and maybe something meaty as a part of lunch, but I went gradually off meat, replacing my beloved chicken and lamb and goat and fish with guacamole and tofu and nuts.

Well, my body was NOT having it. I was weak, pale, emaciated and when I showed up to the doctor thinking I had come down with some superbug (because I had fed into the vegetarian is healthier campaign, how could *I* be sick, right?) I find out that I am TWO types of anemic. I was both B-12 and iron deficient anemic, and all this took place in a span of time shorter than 6 months of a hardcore vegetarian/vegan diet. My hair also lost lustre, my nails became brittle and broke easily and my skin looked horrible. My doctor demanded to know what I was doing dietary wise, and I told him and he then demanded that I go home and prepare some form of meat, preferably organ meat for supper along with the vegetables.

I think my problem was that I went basically cold turkey off of meat, and I jumped quickly into a vegan diet. I understand that veganism/vegetarianism works for MANY, many people and more power to all of you, but please don't think your way is the only way for the world and all of it's inhabitants. You may be preaching someone into ill heath and even death. I am a very active person and I am sorry, a few almonds and a sprinkle of pumpkin seeds with hummus is not doing it for a big country girl like me. Maybe it might work for more frail types with different requriments, and yes, I know there are Vegan bodybuilders; who are so only by taking tonnes of suppliments. I work hard, play hard and eat well now that I learned my lesson. I won't play with my health again. I am happy to say, I lost all the baby weight and then some eating a balanced omnivirous diet and exercising...and I am back to my svelte self, no fads needed.

I understand your point of view. And thanks for writing this post, because its is very important - it is ESSENTIAL - that if people are even considering going off meat and dairy, that they do things properly. You HAVE to make sure you are eating the right things every day, and getting enough protein, vitamins etc every day in your diet - or yes, you will become very sick, anaemic and you could die. So don't even attempt to do the diet i'm suggesting, if you havent looked into it properly and dont understand all the nutrients your body needs, and EXACTLY what you're doing.

You absolutely MUST get enough protein EVERY DAY if you dont eat meat/dairy. this means, beans, chickpeas, lentils, and EGGS. Every day. This is where your protein comes from. if you dont eat it; you wont get enough protein/iron and you will get sick. Just picking a few foods to eat like tofu/nuts/avocado, is going to make you sick cuz you're missing out on a lot of minerals, etc. I still eat some fish, but if i didnt, i would need to be even more careful to eat enough eggs/beans/chickpeas and lentils to compensate.

As well as the protein, you should also eat a selection of nuts, seeds, fruit and vegetables every day and plenty of grains so you dont lose weight. But also, you should REASEARCH THIS VERY CAREFULLY YOURSELF, so you know what you're doing. I dont want to be responsible for people getting sick.

If you're going to change your diet this dramatically you really should know what each food - plant food - does, and how much protein, calcium, iron, magnesium and other minerals it will give you, verses what you need each day. It can be done safely. plenty of people in india and vietnam are vegetarians and dont end up anaemic or dead. but you have to get the balance right or otherwise your doctor will be justified in telling you to go back to meat. If you're worried you wont do it right, it might be a good idea to keep eating fish (and particularly a lot of eggs) until you are sure you know what you're doing etc.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by rapunzel222
Yeah, well life just sucks dont it. but thered be a lot of happier chickens around, u could take comfort from taht i guess. no, i said if you want to be HEALTHIER u shudnt eat meat and dairy.

Well i'm sorry but i'd argue this point rather strongly. I have pointed out on many threads that top bodybuilders all eat meat, the top vegan bodybuilder is half their size. Shouldn't that tell you something about the human body? It operates best on a diet that has some meat. I'm not saying tons of meat, burgers at dawn and 18oz steaks of dinner, just some. Oh and forgive me but happy chickens? Chickens barely have the brain power to remember where they live, they aren't going to be feeling emotions like a human being is.

Thats sad that you really think chickens dont have emotions. there are plenty of articles about intelligent birds, like parrots - many birds are very intelligent - parrots can do maths; and of course birds would have emotion too. at least to the extent of knowing if sensations they are feeling are pleasant or not - even PLANTS have this ability. And to my mind, the sensation of being stuck in a tiny cage and never seeing grass or sunlight would be unpleasant in the extreme. it is really sad that you think this. it makes me sad that people out there can think like this about animals.


You might think that you don't need meat, but i wonder how much physical labour you have done. By that i mean true, exhausting labour day after day. I have tried the vegetarian diet and yes i was very careful to include all the things i needed but i still felt exhausted. I mixed grains, had eggs even dosed myself with a whey protein powder and yet still felt unwell. A bit of meat sorted it right away.Maybe this is because meat actually causes a hormonal response in the human body which is beneficial in many people but who knows what the reason is.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
im not saying im perfect - i even eat a bit of fish occasionally. i dont feel good about it but i do, cuz my family still eats fish sometimes. but i dont think its necessary if you eat enough eggs and the other foods i mentioned that give you protein - and eat enough of them.

Eggs? Well i like eggs however eating 4 a day wouldn't be to good for me. A nice bit of rabbit on the other hand would be extremely good for me, very low in fat, fat in this meat is almost non existent in fact and high protein. It's also had a good life which i find important.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

i didnt say eat four eggs a day. one would probly be enough. again, see my post below on the importance of knowing what you're doing if on the vegetarian diet; and eating exactly the right foods - if you dont, the diet can be very dangerous. i dont know exactly what you were eating when you werent eating meat; did you eat plenty of chickpeas, beans and lentils every day, and at least one egg? because to get the equivalent of a piece of meat, you would need to - particularly if you're doing bodybuilding stuff; otherwise you wouldnt get enough protein/iron. (you also need to be eating all the other stuff, nuts, seeds, stuff like figs to get calcium if you're not eating dairy - its quite complicated to do it right).

i dont know enough to advise you what to eat if you're a bodybuilder. i guess you could look into it further if you wanted. and if you feel you need to eat some meat - maybe you do; but i would think that if you eat enough of hte right vegetarian foods, with lots of protein in them, you shouldnt need the meat. im not going to preach to you tho, its just my opinion; and i was intrigued that greek athletes didnt eat meat before the olympics, so i reckon there's something to it - maybe people are just doing the diet wrong/not eating enough of the things they need to, to replace meat.

but firstly i agree that you should listen to your body. your body was feeling weak, so whatever you were doing wasnt right. you ate meat and you felt better. that was the right thing to do in your situation, because you listened to your body and fixed the problem. thats the most important and immediate thing. but i do think taht you could have fixed the problem also by eating the right selection of plant foods that contain enough protein/iron to replace the meat. however again, you should listen to your body - and it will tell you if you've got it right or not. if not, the most important thing is to fix the problem fast.

Oh, i just want to say again: for those people who dont think they can give up meat/dont want to; or for people who are worried they dont know enough about food etc to eat the right things so they get enough protein/iron w/o meat; or are worried about getting anaemia etc; then i really think you'd benefit just from cutting down on the meat; and thinking of meat more as a garnish, if u dont want to give it up altogether. (and bumping up the vegetable intake - or on some nights, just eat vegies, tofu, beans, chickpeas etc.).

again my sources for this are: the book the china study and the website above that might interest someone.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
i didnt say eat four eggs a day. one would probly be enough. again, see my post below on the importance of knowing what you're doing if on the vegetarian diet; and eating exactly the right foods - if you dont, the diet can be very dangerous. i dont know exactly what you were eating when you werent eating meat; did you eat plenty of chickpeas, beans and lentils every day, and at least one egg? because to get the equivalent of a piece of meat, you would need to - particularly if you're doing bodybuilding stuff; otherwise you wouldnt get enough protein/iron. (you also need to be eating all the other stuff, nuts, seeds, stuff like figs to get calcium if you're not eating dairy - its quite complicated to do it right).

I never said you said to eat 4 eggs a day. I simply mean that certain people would need that much protein to keep going. I ate all the things you mentioned, i had a doctor look at the diet i planned out as well, it's all perfectly balanced. But hey maybe the doctor didn't know what he was going on about huh. I point out again that meat causes a hormonal response that vegetables don't. That hormonal response is key to gaining muscle and i would argue maintaining a decent standard of health when pushing your body hard.


i dont know enough to advise you what to eat if you're a bodybuilder. i guess you could look into it further if you wanted. and if you feel you need to eat some meat - maybe you do; but i would think that if you eat enough of hte right vegetarian foods, with lots of protein in them, you shouldnt need the meat.

Again i point out that the top vegan bodybuilder is around half the size of the meat eating ones. This is evidence that the vegetarian and vegan diets do not provide everything you need. As a normal individual you probably won't notice it, but if you start training extensively in sports i bet you would notice. Not all sports of course but ones that breakdown and rebuild muscle would need that meat to keep up.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
but firstly i agree that you should listen to your body. your body was feeling weak, so whatever you were doing wasnt right. you ate meat and you felt better. that was the right thing to do in your situation, because you listened to your body and fixed the problem. thats the most important and immediate thing. but i do think taht you could have fixed the problem also by eating the right selection of plant foods that contain enough protein/iron to replace the meat. however again, you should listen to your body - and it will tell you if you've got it right or not. if not, the most important thing is to fix the problem fast.

Well again the doctor i consulted (a friend not my own doctor) said the diet was very well thought out. I included all of the foods you mentioned plus a few more. I also used a protein supplement which you would think would have balanced out any losses (not that there were any gaps). I would say that meat creates a certain response in the body that is very beneficial, as long as you don't overdo it. Oh and i personally avoid red meat.

I just find vegetarians on a crusade to be deeply short sighted. Killing animals isn't great, but if it keeps me healthy i'll carry on doing it.There are some drawbacks to a meat eating diet, however i would argue that all studies done with meat eaters don't seem to have been done with sensible meat eaters. People who stay within the recommended amount are rare.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by shabdiz

 

i think lions are kinder than we are.

I think not! Tell me, in which video do you see, or hear, an animal in pain?



or

Originally posted by crabppl
reply to post by rapunzel222

 

Youve got a smoker who eats meat who lives to be 90 and a fitness nut who only eats organic who dies jogging in the park at 30. You cant make blanket assumptions.

Think it has anything to do with jogging? Some research has shown that jogging on a daily basis can be devastating to the heart muscle.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
And, it will go a long way karmically too if you avoid eating DEATH. Also, you can avoid natures wrath, prions, cancer, cholesterol, and things like swine and avian flu, and more, by giving up this horrible blood thirsty lifestyle of being a vampire. Convert, vampires, convert .. give up eating DEATH and you WILL feel a lot better about yourselves, physically, mentally, and morally.

Wow, great post! Are you serious? While Heart Disease is more prevalant among Omnivores, Cancer incidence seems to be higher in Vegetarians. This is purely epidemiological, but correlation does have it's place is science.

Restricting carbohydrates seems to have a possitive effect on Serum Cholesterol profiles while restricting meats has an inverse effect. In case you didn't know, your "no meat" diet is probably 80% carbohydrates.

To the OP:

The China Study? You've got to be kidding me? I've got a China Study that shows the exact opposite of your China Study.....

My China Study

Dr. Michael Eades Explains

Researchers in China recruited 57 healthy post-menopausal women who had been vegetarians for an average of a little over 10 years and age matched them with 61 healthy omnivores to study cardiovascular risk and carotid artery atherosclerotic disease.

After an overnight fast the subjects provided blood samples that were evaluated for lipids, homocysteine, vitamin B12, and a host of other parameters. The researchers evaluated the presence and degree of any carotid artery disease present in the subjects using ultrasonography.

After the results were tabulated it turns out that vegetarians have significantly increased levels of homocysteine along with decreased levels of vitamin B12. The low levels of vitamin B12 would be expected because vitamin B12 is found only in foods of animal origin, which is one of the primary indicators that humans have evolved eating meat. Homocysteine, a substance thought to be toxic to the arteries, is involved in the metabolism of methionine and is reduced with folic acid, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6. The interesting thing about the findings in this study is that when patients have elevated homosysteine levels they are usually advised to eat more fruits and vegetables to increase their intake of folic acid and to reduce their intake of meat, which provides large amounts of methionine, the precursor of homocysteine. In the case of the subjects in this study, they were already eating large amounts of fruits and vegetables while avoiding meat altogether, yet ended up with more homocysteine than those subjects consuming meat. (These findings are not unusual; most studies on vegetarians find this same phenomenon.)

Are you worried about the Fat and Cholesterol in Meat? Maybe this will clear up a few things........www.abovetopsecret.com...



It would seem that agriculture, not meat, has been our problem. Studies have shown the Ancient Egyptians were riddled with Heart Disease and other complications brought on by excessive carbohydrate consumption. Thanks Agriculture!

The Difference Between Agriculturists and Hunter Gatherers

Eat what you want, but don't come start a thread, one that has been started by plenty of other ATS members, that claims Meat is the devil without providing ANY sources whatsoever. Talk about misinformation!

they say eat lots of fruit and vegetables. thats true. (and grains, nuts, seeds, beans etc), but they omit to say: DONT eat dairy, DONT eat sugar and DONT eat meat.

They also don't say anything about reducing carbohydrate consumption while blaming everything on fat and cholesterol. The mainstream news, if you haven't been paying attention, is quick to report any study that throws Meat under the bus.

Media Bias: To eat Red Meat or Not

Look closely next time you see a study that's being covered in the news. I bet you can find just as many studies that show the exact same opposite that were released at the exact same time.......

-Dev

Edits for Format
[edit on 28-4-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]

there's plenty of evidence to back up my assertions about meat. I started this thread to inform people about the existance of the book : the china study incase they want to read it and inform themselves.

You coming on here and arrogantly accusing me of false assertions without even reading the material i pointed out to you seems a little dumb. Why dont you go on another thread? this ones for people who want to read the books im talking about and discuss it.

if youre not interested, take a hike.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by rapunzel222]

reply to post by rapunzel222


So someone comes on your thread, challenges what you've said and they're just supposed to leave? You can't really dictate it like that. You made comments, they've made there's, you have both tried to back them up, that's how debate works.

reply to post by rapunzel222


Oh, I'm interested. This is a discussion forum. We're supposed to discuss. If you don't want people commenting on your posts, start a blog and turn off the comments.

You make these assertions yet you provide no source. I'm saying that for every study you claim to have read that proves meat to be the devil, I'll provide you with actual studies that show the exact opposite.

also, obviously dont drink coke, soft drink, anything with aspartame in it like equal; caffeine (coffee) - green /herbal tea is ok.
make sure get enough protein by beans/chickpeas/lentils/corn etc.

Coffee? I believe the verdict is not out yet on the effects of coffee although there have been multiple studies demonstrating coffee's health benefits. Coffee berry is one of the best sources for antioxidants.

people need to be getting all minerals too; often iodine deficient (seaweed); magnesium deficient (green vegies); selenium deficient (nuts - brazil nuts); calcium - figs/bread; vit d - sunlight - 15 mins a day; enzymes - q 10 - flaxseed oil etc etc. essential sugars/proteins. chinese herbs are a good way of getting your minerals u may be lacking and fixing any health probs too. mushrooms often found in the herbal combos can cure lots of th ings.

While I agree with 90% of that quote, I can't agree with the bold. There is no such thing as an essential sugar/carbohydrate; however, protein and fat are completely different stories.

there's plenty of evidence to back up my assertions about meat. I started this thread to inform people about the existance of the book : the china study incase they want to read it and inform themselves.

There's no evidence in this thread that back up your assertions. Period. So you started this thread as a book recommendation but you conveniently titled your thread, Conspiracy to keep people fat and unhealthy?, which is it? I think it's funny that you started the thread making claims, after which you decided to plug the book. This thread is nothing more than opinion presented as fact.

You coming on here and arrogantly accusing me of false assertions without even reading the material i pointed out to you seems a little dumb. Why dont you go on another thread? this ones for people who want to read the books im talking about and discuss it.

Dumb? I think providing no evidence is dumb. I think ignoring the facts is dumb. I think posting a thread in a discussion forum and then telling those who disagree with you to leave your thread is dumb. I've read your material and I've read The China Study and I believe that it's a bogus study and that many studies conducted after it were evidence of this accusation.

I'm sure you didn't read my material, did you? Do you know why there are so many conflicting studies released almost daily? It's because most of these studies are epidemiological and aren't meant to determine causation.

-Dev

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

I never said you said to eat 4 eggs a day. I simply mean that certain people would need that much protein to keep going. I ate all the things you mentioned, i had a doctor look at the diet i planned out as well, it's all perfectly balanced. But hey maybe the doctor didn't know what he was going on about huh

Oh no, not nutritional advice from a Doctor.

Not saying that ALL doctors don't know nutrition but the vast majority are ignorant on the subject.

I saw you mentioning your bodybuilder friend. One of the best Strength Coaches in the country is a gentleman by the name of Robert Dos Remedios......he's a vegetarian. And he's jacked. I model most of my client's workouts after his.

-Dev

Chad basically nailed this in the first page,like just about everything in life "moderation" is the key.I eat meat(not processed though) vegetables,fruits,nuts and everything i can get my hands on really,being an omnivore and all..but i eat it all in moderation which is the key to a good diet.