New Obama Ammo and Gun Ban

I can't even believe this!
This comes from Gun Owners of America

Tuesday, April 21, 2009

Remember CANDIDATE Barack Obama? The guy who "wasn't going to take away
our guns"?
Well, guess what?
Less than 100 days into his administration, he's never met a gun he
didn't hate.
A week ago, Obama went to Mexico, whined about the United States, and
bemoaned (before the whole world) the fact that he didn't have the
political power to take away our semi-automatics. Nevertheless, that
didn't keep him from pushing additional restrictions on American gun
owners.

It's called the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing
of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other
Related Materials. To be sure, this imponderable title masks a really
nasty piece of work.

First of all, when the treaty purports to ban the "illicit"
manufacture
of firearms, what does that mean?

gunowners.org...

Trimmed external copy/paste, removed 'All Caps' in title, added 'ex' tags and a link.

Please read:

The Use of ALL CAPs

Posting work written by others

[edit on 22/4/09 by masqua]

Not since the 1750's has Americas 2nd Amendment been under such attack!

The British wanted gun control so total control could be sought. Look what is happening now!

It doesn't matter if your for gun control or not this is a serious attack on all of our freedoms. If this passes we are all in jeopardy of our rights. Those of us who stand for the 2nd Amendment are the last line of defense for our country and have been for over 200 years.

Read history and see the ramifications of total gun bans across the world, they result in ultimate demise of society and the rise of dictatorships.

reply to post by HeavilyArmed


Awesome, you guys are finally joining the rest of the civilised world. Congratulations!!

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


If you find the rest of the world civilized, your looking through rose colored glasses. Since our Independence we have been the peace keepers of the world, like it or not. Our volunteer citizens, have bailed out the countries that have declared stupid and had to come to save the day.

Originally posted by HeavilyArmed
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

 

If you find the rest of the world civilized, your looking through rose colored glasses. Since our Independence we have been the peace keepers of the world, like it or not. Our volunteer citizens, have bailed out the countries that have declared stupid and had to come to save the day.

Seriously dude, you're breathing in too much gunpowder. Peace keepers of the world!?

These countries you claim to have 'Kept the peace', interesting that all these contries with internal conflicts all have armed civillians.

It's here. gunowners.org...

Treaties have/must be ratified by the Senate?

Ya'll know what to do.


Roper

Originally posted by HeavilyArmed
Not since the 1750's has Americas 2nd Amendment been under such attack!

Just for clarification, there was no Second Amendment in the 1750s. There wasn't a US Constitution in the 1750s. There was no United States.

Obama is a clear threat to gun rights, but he's no fool. He knows that gun control legislation put the Democrats on the ropes for many years and he's not going to want to be responsible for that, because it will happen again.

People are voting with their dollars. The mere fact of a Democrat president coupled with a Democrat Congress has led to the highest gun and ammo sales that has been seen in years, if ever.

Now is the time for all Americans who support and defend the Constitution of the United States to join together to make sure that our rights remain intact.

Join a Second Amendment organization and get involved by contacting your legislators frequently.

It's now or never.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Awesome, you guys are finally joining the rest of the civilised world. Congratulations!!

Right ... the rest of the world is a peaceful paradise devoid of violence or unrest. (sarcasim)

buddy .. you'd best take a long hard look at what's going on around the world and wake up.

At least in America we are promised the right to own firearms to protect ourselves. (for now).

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by HeavilyArmed

 

Awesome, you guys are finally joining the rest of the civilised world. Congratulations!!

You're correct.

England is far more civilized without guns. Stabbings and 24/7 police monitoring of civilians is just the civilization we should all want. Need I even mention "chavs"?

[edit on 4/22/2009 by eNumbra]

reply to post by eNumbra


Chavs? They're called rednecks in America.
stabbings? It's easier to avoid a knife than a bullet.

reply to post by FlyersFan


As I previously stated, all the 'rest of the world' trouble is coming from nations with populace gun ownership.

You should go to Google News and type in "Stabbing" for the past 24 hours. The U.S. has just as many if not more ridiculous stabbings than the UK. The difference being that national and global news outlets have their agendas and people in New Zealand will hear about some thug in Boston shooting another thug long before they hear about the guy in Florida who stabbed two of his friends with tongs from his BBQ.

Anyone outside of the US thinking people being shot in the U.S. is as common as your news portrays it is just as foolish and immature as anyone anywhere thinking banning firearms will have any effect whatsoever on a criminals ability to obtain said arms or overall homicide and assault rates.

I'm not trying to be rude, but this needs to stop. All I hear lately is about gun bans, but there is something you all need to realize: THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Be concerned about ammo registration. Be concerned about the already unconstitutional gun registration laws. but They are not going to ban guns. They cannot. It will not happen.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by eNumbra

 

Chavs? They're called rednecks in America.
stabbings? It's easier to avoid a knife than a bullet.

And yet Knives remain legal in Britain. Perhaps we should advocate a cutlery ban to make them more civilized.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimisticBe concerned about ammo registration. Be concerned about the already unconstitutional gun registration laws. but They are not going to ban guns. They cannot. It will not happen.

This treaty will seek to make reloading your own ammunition a felony.

1. "Illicit manufacturing" of firearms is defined as "assembly of firearms [or] ammunition... without a license...."

Hence, reloading ammunition -- or putting together a lawful firearm from a kit -- is clearly "illicit manufacturing."

Since it's an international treaty and not a U.S. ban I don't think the Bill of Rights will apply. Meaning the 4th won't stop them from kicking in your door and looking for cases, powder or primers.

Other provisions of the treaty:

Banning Reloading. In Article IV of the treaty, countries commit to adopting "necessary legislative or other measures" to criminalize illicit manufacturing and trafficking in firearms.

Remember that "illicit manufacturing" includes reloading and modifying or assembling a firearm in any way. This would mean that the Obama administration could promulgate regulations banning reloading on the basis of this treaty -- just as it is currently circumventing Congress to write legislation taxing greenhouse gases.

Banning Gun Clubs. Article IV goes on to state that the criminalized acts should include "association or conspiracy" in connection with said offenses -- which is arguably a term broad enough to allow, by regulation, the criminalization of entire pro-gun organizations or gun clubs, based on the facilities which they provide their membership.

Extraditing US Gun Dealers. Article V requires each party to "adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention" under a variety of circumstances.

We know that Mexico is blaming U.S. gun dealers for the fact that its streets are flowing with blood. And we know it is possible for Mexico to define offenses "committed in its territory" in a very broad way.

And we know that we have an extradition obligation under Article XIX of the proposed treaty. So we know that Mexico could try to use the treaty to demand to extradition of American gun dealers.

Under Article XXIX, if Mexico demands the extradition of a lawful American gun dealer, the U.S. would be required to resolve the dispute through "other means of peaceful settlement."

Microstamping. Article VI requires "appropriate markings" on firearms. And, it is not inconceivable that this provision could be used to require microstamping of firearms and/or ammunition -- a requirement which is clearly intended to impose specifications which are not technologically possible or which are possible only at a prohibitively expensive cost.

Gun Registration. Article XI requires the maintenance of any records, for a "reasonable time," that the government determines to be necessary to trace firearms. This provision would almost certainly repeal portions of McClure-Volkmer and could arguably be used to require a national registry or database.

Most of what's in there is just so far out extreme I don't expect this "treaty" to go anywhere. But then, Obama keeps telling us how he respects the 2nd and weekly there is a new and exponentially more ridiculous assault on it. An assault that he also claims to support.

It should be noted that the past two Presidents tried to get this thing signed. That's Bush Jr. and Clinton for anyone looking to play the partisan game. Bills can expire and die without ever being signed but these treaties will just sit forever until they get signed.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by thisguyrighthere]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thank You for properly posting the external source, I'm not so ATS savvy as of yet and don't' start threads often. After a prolonged power outage I am finally able to read the posts made by others.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott
[mor

Just for clarification, there was no Second Amendment in the 1750s. There wasn't a US Constitution in the 1750s. There was no United States.

Yes I'm very aware of this, my point was the British crown attempted to attack the liberties that our citizens of the colonies had seen as "God given rights". Never since has this much pressure been put to remove guns from the hands of the people in the USA. In turn this sparked the American Revolution and thus gave birth to the US Constitution and our 2nd Amendment.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


If the Senate agrees to the treaty and the president signs it its the law of the land here! ALL treaties signed by this government hold the same sway as any law and its almost impossible to renig on any international treaty.
www.law.cornell.edu...

We can't even bring it before the SCOTUS. It must be recinded on another vote! Other countries are not bound by treaties as we are!

Zindo

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman

Awesome, you guys are finally joining the rest of the civilised world. Congratulations!!

To disarm the people is "joining the rest of the civilized world?... Really?..

Is that why the British had the largest peaceful demonstration in the country's history when they were protesting the fact that crime with firearms has almost doubled, if it hasn't more than doubled by now, since law abiding citizens were banned from owning firearms??

Is it to "rejoin the rest of civilization" to actually put in jail a man who was defending himself in his home, when two criminals broke into his house, and he had to shoot at them, killing one, and now this "law abiding citizen" is behind bars, meanwhile one of the other criminals was let go within a few months?...

I guess your idea of a "civilized nation" must mean a nation full of criminals, where criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens....



[edit on 23-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman

As I previously stated, all the 'rest of the world' trouble is coming from nations with populace gun ownership.

BS. All those nations which have banned law abiding citizens from owning firearms has seen an increase in gun crimes, and criminal activity in general..

Before you start making claims that are false, you should make yourself more familiar with what is truly happening in nations which have banned law abiding citizens from owning firearms.

Watch this video to see what the largest peaceful demonstration on Britain's history was all about, and even what British officers are saying about the banning of firearms in Britain has done.

www.youtube.com...

This link has been posted dozens of times already.