TWO!!! 2!!! Raptures

^^^^ Rolls eyes ^^^^ Look at the blind trying to leed. You that is clearly not holy spirit filled trying to talk about spirit filled writing. LULZ!

I know all those verses very well thank you very much. You're ignoring the seven letters to the Churches in Revelation. Also a remnant, (Church of Philadelphia will be saved) and the rest of the Christians and sinners will indeed have to endure until the end. I'm not trying to feel safe, nor make others feel safe but explain this:

Luke 21:36
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." He is speaking to all who will not be lukewarm in the will of Christ. So that's one rapture and remember the first fruits of spring. Meaning there will indeed be another rapture. At the END of the Great Tribulation, but before the Day of The Lord period. That would explain why he who endures to the end shall be saved. Immediately after the Tribulation of those days, but not before the Day of the Lord period. All three of these time periods are part of the "End Time." First the Tribulation, then the Great Tribulation, then finally the day of the Lord for those who did not accept Jesus when he came in the sky. Most tend to think these all refer to one seven year period when in fact they are three different parts to the seven year period.

EDIT

God intervened in my life in such a way that it was necessary. To say that your brother is not filled with the Holy Spirit is a little contradiction in itself. Should we all not just help each other out? I believe there may just be two catching ways. One so the Anti-Christ can rise in(oh they were abducted by evil aliens not Yahweh), and the other so those who changed can escape the greatest wrath of God in the Day of the Lord.

Here is the Beast himself who claims to come with "Masters of Wisdom." His name is MAITREYA and it happens to be the only name in all alpha-numeric languages that comes out to 666. Especially all the ways of its spelling in Hebrew.

www.share-international.org...

[edit on 30-4-2009 by watchtheashes]

God intervened in my life in such a way that it was necessary. To say that your brother is not filled with the Holy Spirit is a little contradiction in itself.

Your right I apologise to the person I said that too.

Originally posted by Locoman8
. The second resurrection happens after the 1000 years of peace on earth under the rule of Christ and is a fleshly resurrection to judgement. Not all will suffer hellfire in this resurrection and those that do, will "surely die" and not suffer forever. The lake of fire is known in revelation as the second death.

i confess to not being too familar with the bible, i started reading genesis and stopped not too far in. Have promised myself to read it in its entirety though, as it is meant to be a good read whatever

Anyway, i had to post this as it made me laugh. The Lake of Fire - immediately gave me the image of the great fire of London - which took place 1666

www.pepys.info...

Ironically, it also helped kill off the The Great Bubonic Plague pandemic of 1665:

The Great Plague 1665 In two successive years of the 17th century London suffered two terrible disasters. In the spring and summer of 1665 an outbreak of Bubonic Plague spread from parish to parish until thousands had died and the huge pits dug to receive the bodies were full. In 1666 the Great Fire of London destroyed much of the centre of London but also killed off most of the black rats and fleas that carried the plague bacillus

www.historic-uk.com...




[edit on 30-4-2009 by MCoG1980]

reply to post by badmedia



This is the wrong thread for this debate, is that thread about Paul being false yours? Bump it up again, I will post on it, to answer you.

I will just say to you this, you just wrote off 14 books of the New Testament written between 50 AD & 65 AD. You can't do that and remain true to Christianity, it's impossible.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
This is the wrong thread for this debate, is that thread about Paul being false yours? Bump it up again, I will post on it, to answer you.

I will just say to you this, you just wrote off 14 books of the New Testament written between 50 AD & 65 AD. You can't do that and remain true to Christianity, it's impossible.

The only thread I've ever started is dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing and what that means.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

I have often debated about Paul though, there are some threads posted, but I don't have links to them.

I do not consider or want to be considered a christian. Even though I talk about Jesus in a positive light, I can't stand christianity as a religion.

I actually know the father, and learned what I know from the father, and what you call the holy spirit. When I had the vision and gained this knowledge, I was not told "become a christian, accept Jesus". In fact, the father told me EXACTLY the opposite. I was taught that idols, and such things are never the important thing, it was the message and understanding such people give that is important. (Jesus talks about this with the altar, or the gold that sanctifies it).

And that is what the father taught me. He gave me understanding and showed me the path.

If you would like to know about the path, how it works and why Jesus is right, read these 2 posts. I was given this kind of knowledge, rather than saying - "accept Jesus" etc.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It was not until months after gaining this knowledge and talking about it did I know that the bible said such things. And it turns out the bible even describes and tells exactly what happened to me.

6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

Someone on these forums was nice enough to point those verses out to me after I spoke of my experience. And of course, Paul's experience doesn't match up with what god said at all, NONE of the 3 do. I had my experience and someone was sitting right next to me, and they had no idea. I already knew Paul was a fake because of the things he said, he does everything I was shown not to do. But acts is like icing on the cake.

So honestly, I could drop all the books of the bible, I don't actually need them. The bible is not any kind of authority to me. I don't want to belong to any such organizations, religions or anything. If Christianity was based on what Jesus said and did, then we it might be up for discussion, but it's not. It's just a bunch of blind people who accept rather than understand.

The only reason I even speak of the bible is because I know Jesus understood, and I recognize the father in Jesus. If it comes down to what the bible says, verses what the father has taught me, then sorry but the bible loses out. You may think the bible is the "word of god", but I know it only acts as a replacement for the real thing among those who do not hear.

Of the NT, I pretty much stick to only the 4 gospels and revelations. The gnostic texts. I do not consider myself a "gnostic christian" so much, but by definition I suppose I am, and I find myself in agreement with them over all other Christians.

The truth is gnostics and people like me have been killed, tortured and so forth by the church. Branded as heretics and so forth.

Here's a bit of history on the church vs gnostics. This will perhaps help you see where I come from.







In fact, if you look at the things Jesus said of the pharisees, you will find they are all true in the christian church. There is little doubt for me who Jesus is talking about in Matthew 7. It is the church and Christians who give lip service to Jesus, but do their works in sin, rather than following the path of Jesus.

Also, I think this stuff is right on the topic above. Because from the point of view of a christian, who looks towards all other religions except there own as being the false religion, they do not see the prophecies having come true. But for gnostics and those who follow the teachings of Jesus and understand it's deeper meanings, the persecution, many of the prophecies you wait for have already happened.

Christians find salvation in the death of Jesus, which is a satanic point of view of sacrifice. A sacrifice of truth, so that the lie of this world may live. I on the other hand find truth and salvation is in his life and his example, and view his death as a murder.

I think the bigger worry is to remain true to the father, not to some man made religion. And those books do not remain true to the father. Paul has hollow words like a politician, which are filled by the person, which is why he is so broadly accepted among men. The father gives in understand and wisdom. Big difference and there is no comparison to what the father gives on earth.

Example of hollow words. "I am going to improve healthcare". These are hollow words. Because they just make a general statement and don't really say how they are going to do it and so forth. So, the person fills that up with what they think better healthcare is. The person just see's themselves as getting the medical care for free and so forth. Works great for politicians and such, but they are hollow words and false promises. It is a popular tool for wolves in sheeps clothing.

In fact, the main reason I point out that I think christianity is the anti-christ religion is because when I say general things like "Jesus is truth" and so forth, christians cheer and think I am saying their beliefs. But saying Jesus is truth is in itself hollow, because we do not define what "truth" actually is, just as they do not define what "better healthcare" actually is.

These are things the father teaches and shows me.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Yeshua was the unblemished lamb that offered his life so we may be forgiven and resurrected into eternal life in Paradise or The Kingdom of God. It's not satanic. He taught about his sacrifice before it ever happened.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
Yeshua was the unblemished lamb that offered his life so we may be forgiven and resurrected into eternal life in Paradise or The Kingdom of God. It's not satanic. He taught about his sacrifice before it ever happened.

The grace of Jesus is that he did what he did when he didn't have to. He was not evil, did not need this lesson and did not have to be here. It has nothing to do with a physical death, or any physical blood. What you are basically saying is Jesus did these things so you don't have to, and that is a lie.

The mentions of blood in the bible are not about sheding "blood" or death. Blood is symbolic of "life" and giving "life". So in his blood, means in his life.

Because Jesus often says that those who truly believe will do as he says. And what he says to do is what I know to be true because that is what the father taught me.

To suggest that the entire thing was done just so you can "believe" he is real and so forth, so that you don't have to is ridiculous. If such was the case, then you wouldn't need to be on this earth in the first place. You were sent here to learn good and evil, and people did not get the good, so Jesus came to be an example to show you exactly how to follow and choose the good wisely.

The deception and why Christianity is a satanic religion of this world is because they took all that, and built up and idol. Paul constantly praises and builds the idol of Jesus, but quotes him only 1 single time in all the writings.

Paul is no different than a politician who praises the flag and constitution, but then in practice does not follow either and does their own thing. Because that is how corruption and deception works, that is the status quo for wolves in sheeps clothing.

All we have to do is look at the rich man for proof of this. The rich man directly asks Jesus what he needs to do, and Jesus tells him to walk the path. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich man - wait until I'm dead, then just accept me? Because it is a manipulation, that is why.

You accept the church and Paul because it is easier. Where as I say you must actually walk the path and do what Jesus says, the church says just believe and all is good. Meanwhile, history has shown they walk a path of death and destruction. They give lip service, but do not follow.

Read the 2 threads about how the universe works I linked too above. They will show you WHY following the path is so important, and why Jesus calls it a path to begin with. It will also show you why giving lip service doesn't do you any good, and why "many will say to him on that day, Lord Lord, have we not done many things in your name, many wonderful works, and he will say - depart from me, I know you not". Because they did not walk that path, and so their hearts are far.

Not to mention how in the world does a religion get 2 billion members before the return of Jesus, and during a time when the "prince of this world comes". Jesus says he is coming THEN, and he does. His name is Paul.

Does Paul speak of being born again of the spirit? No, Paul speaks of being born through him! in hopes of "adoption". Again, more deception. And the list goes on.



[edit on 1-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Sometimes I think Satan has you my friend. Also, I'm not really interested in being in a denomination or Church for that point. I simply do what Jesus said to do. To interpret His words for myself and talk and discuss it with others. I follow the teachings of Jesus, and religion is definitely a way for Satan to divide people sure. Christians today are taught lies by the Church and they take what they say for granted instead of speaking up if they find a contradiction. He said what He did was break His body for us (represented in bread) and his blood represented by the wine at the last supper. So the sacrifice is indeed important. Don't twist the words if there are verses that support the sacrifice. He put an end to sacrificing animals for sin, and did it Himself. No he didn't have to, but if He didn't we wouldn't be in His grace would we? Even if he did say to be born through him does Christ and Yahweh not speak through them?

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Also, churches are not physical buildings. A synagogue is a physical build or what you call church. When Jesus refers to a church, he is talking about the wisdom, understanding and knowledge one gains. As that is within you, it is present in both heaven and earth, and what you lose and gain in it also you lose and gain in heaven.

You can't take a physical building with you. Only that which is of the father, spirit will return.

Heaven is within, and so the keys to heaven are also held within. Those keys are understanding and knowledge, which open doors of perspective. And the only way to pass on such keys is by giving understanding and knowledge. Dogma and such acts a lock on these doors.

Jesus refers to a rock on mulitple occasions. He never mentions it as a literal rock. It is symbolic of being strong and sturdy, and likens it to wisdom. And that is the church that is being founded in Peter, which no man can touch. You might can destroy the physical, you can even kill a person, but you can't touch their knowledge and understanding without their consent.

Such things have instead been turned into dogma and into positions of authority by Paul and the church. They enter not, and they do not allow others to enter. Those who did were murdered by the church, just as the prophecy tells.

reply to post by badmedia


I think you might be into channeling or something. Those are deceptive demons. I wouldn't fall for that trick. Why is it so hard to believe some one or some ones has figured something out? Even if there weren't two raptures I believe in the pre-Day of The Lord rapture or post Great Tribulation. I'm not trying to feel safe, and the Bible does not contradict. So the escape all these things is very important.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

So honestly, I could drop all the books of the bible, I don't actually need them. The bible is not any kind of authority to me.

Ok I understand what you say about organized religion having done bad in the past. But to throw out the bible just because a bunch of people claimed to follow it, but didn't, in fact they did the opposite of what it teaches.
This doesn't mean the bible is wrong, but rather just those that don't follow it, and claim to be Christians.

It would be like Americans who say lets follow the constitution but then didn't. Either because they were ignorant of what it said or because they knew what it says, but didn't like it. So because of this other Americans that know what it says and want to follow it, say just throw the constitution away. Does that make any sense?

It often baffles me why people who want to worship God let the religious hypocrites so effect their belief structure. They stand condemned by Jesus anyways.
If we let their bad example and actions make us discard the bible, then Satan has won.
It's all part of his plan to deflect people away from accurate knowledge of truth. And it has worked very well, in fact it is strong reason why we have so many atheists now.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Ok I understand what you say about organized religion having done bad in the past. But to throw out the bible just because a bunch of people claimed to follow it, but didn't, in fact they did the opposite of what it teaches.
This doesn't mean the bible is wrong, but rather just those that don't follow it, and claim to be Christians.

Yes, and I often stick up for the bible to that effect, and often get labeled as a christian because of it. I don't throw out the bible, but I would before I let it, or anyone else define things for me. I quote the bible often and I think it's a great book in general. It has helped me in many ways express my understandings in better words.

For example, after my vision the first things out of my mouth were "I am god, and I am arguing with myself". When I said that to someone, they would only ever see the "I am god" part and that would generally lead to misunderstandings even though I was speaking of it being in everyone, not just myself(Psalms 82). I find the way Jesus put it in John 14:20 to be a much much better way of saying it, and when I want to make such a point then I will generally quote Jesus instead.

But if the bible did not agree with me, then I would not quote it. I would dump it, and I know that is something christians think is crazy. But even a christian will say it doesn't make sense without the holy spirit, which to me admits that it is not the bible itself that contains the understanding, but the holy spirit. And that the bible is not actually needed(I didn't learn from it).

Paul has a purpose, as does evil in the end serves the same purpose. It's all part of a plan for being educated and I get that. But while I see the purpose of Paul and evil, it's not my path. My path and what I was shown to do is that of Jesus.

I believe that all things should be in their proper places, and to liken the bible to being the "word of god" is no different than the pharisees sitting in the seat of moses. They are not in their proper places. Bible has a place, but it is not the word of god. The word which those who wrote the bible heard, that is the word of god and there is no replacement for it. And only those who do not hear the true word of god could allow such a replacement. The true word of god can not be written, because it is not a language of man, it is a universal understanding in the same manner as saying "1+1=2" verses understanding how to add(why I mention that so often).

It would be like Americans who say lets follow the constitution but then didn't. Either because they were ignorant of what it said or because they knew what it says, but didn't like it. So because of this other Americans that know what it says and want to follow it, say just throw the constitution away. Does that make any sense?

Yes, and these are arguments I also make constantly. I agree completely. I am a huge fan of the constitution and think it is the most sacred document for governments as you can get on this planet. I believe it has meaning in revelations and the church of Philadelphia even with the principles it follows.

But it is the principles of the constitution that I love, just as it is the principles of Jesus and the father that I love. I will continue to stick up for both the constitution and the bible because I think it does speak those principles I love. However, I would drop both the constitution and the bible before I allowed others to define them into principles that are not the same for me. Because those principles and things are what is important to me.

Just like Jesus, it is not because the bible and people call him the son of god, and so forth that I agree and follow him, such things are not what makes him right IMO. For some people, if Jesus had said things completely the opposite of what he said, they would still believe in him the same way. Not so for me. He is not right because he is a son of god, he is a son of god because he is right, because he has understanding and it is the understanding he speaks that I am able to recognize the father within him by. The name does not make the man, his actions and so forth do.

There is a difference to me.

It often baffles me why people who want to worship God let the religious hypocrites so effect their belief structure. They stand condemned by Jesus anyways.
If we let their bad example and actions make us discard the bible, then Satan has won.
It's all part of his plan to deflect people away from accurate knowledge of truth. And it has worked very well, in fact it is strong reason why we have so many atheists now.

Not disagreeing with you exactly, only to say it's not so much about the bible, but again about the understanding and wisdom in it. And the way corruption and stuff works, and the way this stuff is kept "hidden" is through idols, dogma and traditions of men.

They have made it out to be that Jesus is everything you are not, and so you must worship him. But truly, everything Jesus says of himself is also true of you, it's just a matter of seeking and finding that truth. Which he tried to show, and is why his example is for all to follow. He showed how god acts on earth.

If the principles are changed, even with the same bible, then all is already lost. But, even if the bible disappeared the information and wisdom will always be there for those who seek. I found all my knowledge without the bible, and I actually read the exact same verses when I was younger and they never meant anything to me. It wasn't until after I gained understanding on my own from seeking that I was able too see the father in Jesus. I could not see the father in Jesus, until I actually knew the father.

And what blows my mind about the bible is it actually says these things, but most people don't and can't understand it, just as I didn't, until they know the truth and such for themselves, which is again why one needs the holy spirit to understand.

So it is more about putting things in their proper places rather than a matter of "getting rid" of things and so forth. But what is important to me is not what is important to many.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


I get it man. I mean, it's true that 99% of christians don't follow the true doctrine of God. I for one, do believe the Holy Bible being the "INSPIRED" Word of God passed down from Him to the writers. It's true, these writings have dealt with corruption in translation throughout the years, but the foundational message never changes. The 2 billion christians you refer to, happens to be Catholics and Protestants, neither of which I follow. I was raised up a Baptist which is Protestant. They all follow false teachings started by Catholics and adopted by Paganism. I consider myself a Judeo-Christian..... one who believes that christianity and Judaism were never meant to be separated by religious labels. Christianity was simply a sect of Judaism until the Roman Catholics corrupted the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to fit with their vast population of Pagans in the Roman Empire. As for your argument with the word "church"..... it simply means "gathering" or "assembly" which is not a building, just as you said. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered" the Christ shall be with them. You mention the Gospels and Revelation, yet also absent from the writings of Paul are Acts, James, 1,2 & 3 John, 1 & 2 Peter, and Jude. That is 8 other NT books that you seem to not follow yet are written by some of the other Apostles and Acts was written by Luke, the writer of the 3rd Gospel, which mentions the missionary works of Paul. Paul even called himself "least among the apostles" because he use to persecute christians. Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
Sometimes I think Satan has you my friend.

Well this is something I think we all must consider. It is possible I guess, and that is part of the reason why I would never make an authority of myself, I would be horrified if people followed me and I turned out to be wrong, or serving the wrong master.

But I guess I'll have to refer to Matthew 7 on this. All I ever did was ask and seek the truth, and that is what I found. If have gotten something evil, then I have received a serpent when I asked for a fish.

No doubt, I thought I was going crazy when all this first came to me. I have questioned it a good bit myself. And I don't mind if you "hold my feet to the fire" about the things I say. If you understand me, then great. If you do not understand me, then you are better off not listening to me.

Also, I'm not really interested in being in a denomination or Church for that point. I simply do what Jesus said to do. To interpret His words for myself and talk and discuss it with others. I follow the teachings of Jesus, and religion is definitely a way for Satan to divide people sure.

Then we are in agreement here. I do not know "Jesus", but I know the father who spoke through him. And when I read Jesus, I recognize the father in his words. What Jesus says to do is everything the father taught me to do, and to follow that is the point.

Christians today are taught lies by the Church and they take what they say for granted instead of speaking up if they find a contradiction.

Again to Matthew 7, I think the church can expect to hear the bottom part of it.

He said what He did was break His body for us (represented in bread) and his blood represented by the wine at the last supper. So the sacrifice is indeed important. Don't twist the words if there are verses that support the sacrifice. He put an end to sacrificing animals for sin, and did it Himself. No he didn't have to, but if He didn't we wouldn't be in His grace would we? Even if he did say to be born through him does Christ and Yahweh not speak through them?

He dies to bring you the truth, and to show you the truth. To show you that truth required him to die, because he had to show that it is better to die than to take up the physical sword and fight back. So he is breaking his body in order to show people this. The blood is his life.

The sacrificing of animals was simply a misunderstanding of the time in the religion. A manipulation of what was meant, just as the church does today. Jesus does not change anything, and that is important to remember. What he does is fulfill the laws in his life, including his death to show people the proper understanding, which obviously had nothing to do with sacrificing animals.

I don't find too much wrong in the way you see it really, it's those who think he died so they don't have to actually walk the path that I draw big disagreements with.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
I think you might be into channeling or something. Those are deceptive demons. I wouldn't fall for that trick. Why is it so hard to believe some one or some ones has figured something out? Even if there weren't two raptures I believe in the pre-Day of The Lord rapture or post Great Tribulation. I'm not trying to feel safe, and the Bible does not contradict. So the escape all these things is very important.

No, I don't channel or do anything like that. I had a vision of the father, and then received a bunch of knowledge etc.

The problem with the "rapture" as an event is what makes one generation more special than another? Has torture and all these bad things not always been there? So now 1 man who was tortured 1 day before this time is made to suffer, while others after that day are not?

It would be better than nothing if all suddenly ruptured one day etc, but it doesn't make sense to me why 1 person is made to suffer while another is not.

What does make more sense are these things on a personal level. Then it applies to everyone all the time.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by badmedia

 

I get it man. I mean, it's true that 99% of christians don't follow the true doctrine of God. I for one, do believe the Holy Bible being the "INSPIRED" Word of God passed down from Him to the writers. It's true, these writings have dealt with corruption in translation throughout the years, but the foundational message never changes. The 2 billion christians you refer to, happens to be Catholics and Protestants, neither of which I follow. I was raised up a Baptist which is Protestant. They all follow false teachings started by Catholics and adopted by Paganism. I consider myself a Judeo-Christian..... one who believes that christianity and Judaism were never meant to be separated by religious labels. Christianity was simply a sect of Judaism until the Roman Catholics corrupted the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to fit with their vast population of Pagans in the Roman Empire. As for your argument with the word "church"..... it simply means "gathering" or "assembly" which is not a building, just as you said. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered" the Christ shall be with them. You mention the Gospels and Revelation, yet also absent from the writings of Paul are Acts, James, 1,2 & 3 John, 1 & 2 Peter, and Jude. That is 8 other NT books that you seem to not follow yet are written by some of the other Apostles and Acts was written by Luke, the writer of the 3rd Gospel, which mentions the missionary works of Paul. Paul even called himself "least among the apostles" because he use to persecute christians. Just my thoughts.

I just don't know the other books all that well, and it is mostly the words of Jesus that I recognize the father in. I'm far from a biblical scholar, and many of the things I know others have pointed out for me. There are things I agree with all over the place, even Paul says things which sound good from time to time.

Jesus speaks in parables and other ways of giving understanding, and I don't really see that too much in the other books.



[edit on 2-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


The thing you have to remember about the other books of the NT is that they are mostly letters to other churches from an Apostle or Disciple. Because of this, they had no need to write in parables. Jesus spoke in parables to the multitude because He knew most of them would not understand. This is why He spoke, "He who has an ear, listen." And if you read past the parables, He actually reveals the meaning of them to the Apostles. John, James, and Peter all wrote letters that follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am in agreement with you on the fact that Jesus didn't do away with the Laws or teachings of God. What Jews never understood was the symbolism of the animal sacrifices. If anything was done away with at the death of Christ, it was the sacrificial system and High Priesthood of the tribe of Levi due to the fact, Jesus stands as our permanent High Priest. We talk to the Father through Jesus. We accept the sacrifice of Jesus for the remission of our sins, though we must keep on the straight and narrow path. A christian who doesn't think you have to work to be part of God's Kingdom is not a true christian. Jesus even answered a man about how to enter the Kingdom and He replied by telling the man to "Follow the commandments of God." For a christian, commandments are much more than not killing or not committing adultry. We must not hate or lust as they are killing and fornicating in our hearts. I'm basically saying, I understand your place and it's better than where most "self-proclaimed" christians are in their walk in faith. I follow an untraditional way of being a christain too. Like the Jehovah witnesses, I don't celebrate the pagan holidays of easter or christmas. I follow God's 7 holy day feasts commanded in Leviticus 23. They have a more defined meaning for christians now. I don't believe heaven is meant for mankind. John 3:13 is my basis for this argument though some speculate He was referring to people before His death. I don't believe in eternal punishment in fire for those going to "hell". Hell is a mistranslation in the bible meaning death or grave in most cases. The lake of fire is known in revelation as the "second death". I don't believe in the separation of body and spirit when you die. When you die, you're dead until God resurrects you in the first or second resurrections (not raptures). Just thought I'd share my beliefs with you. God bless you and good night.

Originally posted by Locoman8
The thing you have to remember about the other books of the NT is that they are mostly letters to other churches from an Apostle or Disciple. Because of this, they had no need to write in parables. Jesus spoke in parables to the multitude because He knew most of them would not understand. This is why He spoke, "He who has an ear, listen." And if you read past the parables, He actually reveals the meaning of them to the Apostles. John, James, and Peter all wrote letters that follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

When it comes to the other disciples I just honestly don't know. I'm not bible expert, and I mostly just use it as a way of better communicating with other people. The gnostic texts I can understand very well, but the others I'm just not all the familiar with. The only reason I mostly know about Paul is because he is most often quoted against me, and in contradiction to what Jesus said, and what I've learned.

The big problem for me is that people push the idol up above the message itself. This I believe Jesus talks about in reference to the altar and the gold that sanctifies it, which is more important. People defend the name and idol of Jesus in the manner they should be defending the message. It's not a big deal if you say bad things about Jesus the idol, but it is a big deal to do so with the message/truth.

It is my understanding that at best, the most anyone can do is point someone in the right direction to gain understanding, as there is only 1 true teacher. And so I would look at the disciples texts/letters in this kind of a context. But Jesus is the one that gives the real understanding IMO.

I am in agreement with you on the fact that Jesus didn't do away with the Laws or teachings of God. What Jews never understood was the symbolism of the animal sacrifices. If anything was done away with at the death of Christ, it was the sacrificial system and High Priesthood of the tribe of Levi due to the fact, Jesus stands as our permanent High Priest. We talk to the Father through Jesus. We accept the sacrifice of Jesus for the remission of our sins, though we must keep on the straight and narrow path. A christian who doesn't think you have to work to be part of God's Kingdom is not a true christian. Jesus even answered a man about how to enter the Kingdom and He replied by telling the man to "Follow the commandments of God." For a christian, commandments are much more than not killing or not committing adultry. We must not hate or lust as they are killing and fornicating in our hearts. I'm basically saying, I understand your place and it's better than where most "self-proclaimed" christians are in their walk in faith. I follow an untraditional way of being a christain too. Like the Jehovah witnesses, I don't celebrate the pagan holidays of easter or christmas. I follow God's 7 holy day feasts commanded in Leviticus 23. They have a more defined meaning for christians now. I don't believe heaven is meant for mankind. John 3:13 is my basis for this argument though some speculate He was referring to people before His death. I don't believe in eternal punishment in fire for those going to "hell". Hell is a mistranslation in the bible meaning death or grave in most cases. The lake of fire is known in revelation as the "second death". I don't believe in the separation of body and spirit when you die. When you die, you're dead until God resurrects you in the first or second resurrections (not raptures). Just thought I'd share my beliefs with you. God bless you and good night.

Not to much I can disagree with here, I don't really follow the Leviticus or any of that(not on purpose anyway, I find that many things I end up following just by default).

Everyone has their own way of understanding things, so how you express that understanding isn't too important to me, but it seems like you get the point it's too be followed and done etc. And that is what is important. I don't think of Jesus as a sacrifice in the same way, but it could just be a matter of semantics.



[edit on 4-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


What makes the Raptures special? We live in the End Times. That's what makes them special because the 21st century will be full of signs, wonders, destruction, the return of Christ, Anti-Christ, there was a prophecy of it, then a later prophecy of a faithful church who is not luke-warm(FIRST RAPTURE) then the Tribulation. After the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and after that the Day of The Lord. Before the Day of the Lord, but after the Great Tribulation is the second one. All who are left are the wicked and we rebuild afterward and Christ comes with His Kingdom.