Jackie Chan Says 'Chinese Need to Be Controlled'

BOO! Jackie BOO!

Censorship

Well he must know something we don't about this situation.
I think it stinks to high heaven.

First Google now this whats next China?

Surely he means controlled as in stopped from going over the top in doing 'bad' things? As in human rights violations? etc. Why assume the worst of him when there is no reason to? Surely we'd need him to elaborate on his point quite a bit more before we start making presumptions and boycotting him...

Like I said, he doesnt really have a reference point as to what freedom is, his whole life hes been controlled more so than most others from his oppressive country

Originally posted by silo13
I’m shocked and disappointed at J.C.
...

He was programmed to think that way. How is it his fault? You can take a man out of China, but you cannot take the China out of a man. 5,000 years is a long time, a long, long, time (my Obe Wan Kanobie-fade).

though china does need to be controlled,i think the problem specificly is not that china needs to be controlled but that china is controlled by a dictatorship which disallows the spread of freethought,free will and morality,the problems associated with china on the international stage are a result of this.

the only solution then is to to educate the masses and to somehow reform the powerstructures of china as the power strucure is the problem,all international problems related to china are caused by this internal powerstructure...reforming it is the only way forward and only the people can do that.

but what do you do if the people cant change their own powerstructure?,an age old question that has yet to be resolved without resorting to force which is always unwanted and only needed when the power structure is out of control and a threat to many,and only then if the ends overwhelmingly justify the means unlike with iraq and other examples.
as of yet china is not a threat to the many and it most likely wont be thus force is not an option nor is it needed.

therfore the most wanted steps is to limit chinas powr structures/elites ability to threaten the whole by limiting its ability to conduct warfare,there was an arms embargo against them but over the past decade this has been ignored and circumvented by many including the E.U

and the most vital aspect is to limit the power of the chinese dictatorhsip abroad by denying them political and economic power,however the opposite has occured and the dictatorship have been empowered remarkibly.

i think in the end the question is,can the peopel of china reform their own powerstructure?,if yes the people are the solution with education,if not the solution lies in the power elites,somehow changing their beliefs.






[edit on 18-4-2009 by welivefortheson]

[edit on 18-4-2009 by welivefortheson]

It's completely obvious that people need to be controlled.

Governments are to parents as citizens are to children.

Anarchy never works, and control is measured.

ATS itself is controlled very well. The post lengths are controlled. The membership is controlled. The political baiting, cursing, membership interaction, etc... is all controlled.

See?

holy #ing #.

Damn. I was just censored!

I agree with most of the posts here and want to add that it seems that people that are uncomfortable with our kind of freedoms haven't matured past the state of teenagers or some pre-teens.

With children growing up they need to have boundaries. As they get older and loosen the enforcement of the boundaries, they (theoretically) maintain the respect and boundaries that they've learned as youngsters.

As to those boundaries enforced by an oppressive gov't, that's entirely different. I agree there are some people that just cannot function in a free society and require a lock up.

Point being that freedom is learned and earned. It's a wonderful thing (even if some believe that it's an illusion). Visit some 3rd world countries for a really cool shock.

Those in China have been treated like children and so they behave as children ... very needy. Is your spouse needy? It's not very attractive quality in any human being.

Many of the responses in this thread seem to stem from the typical brainwashing:

Democracy, Freedom, Capitalism.

^^^ All "Good" things.

... and everyone knows what happens to good things.

These comments by Chan are kind of contradictory, to say the least.

Here's why, from my perspective.

First, Jacky Chan has grown up with complete freedom. He grew up under the British regime in Hong Kong, and Hong Kong even today is billed as one of the free-est places in the world to do business, and it is. It is certainly not chaotic, far from it. The flip-side to this 'freedom', to do business freely and to be party to one of the lowest tax regimes in the developed world is that every Hong Kong citizen is ALSO under the thumb biometrically from big brother. Each citizen, by law, must carry around chipped, biometrically enhanced I.D. cards. They use their thumbprints to come and go through immigration when travelling in an automated system that is the most advanced of its kind in the world. My point being, while the term freedom might be loosely applied to Hong Kong citizens, the place is far from chaotic. Crime is very very low. He's selling out his birthplace in a bid to curry favour with its new masters.

Second, Chan's parents live/lived in Canberra, Australia. (I think his mother died not too long ago though). The guy no doubt also has a U.S. green-card. And because of his prior Hong Kong/British citizenry, by default he is classified as being closer by birthright as a British subject than anything to do with China mainland.

So, these calls for more 'control' are a bit rich coming from someone who has been free to roam and live where he pleases his whole life. But, like any good capatilist, he's following the money - and right now China is pulling alot of the strings.

China at present is extremely fearful of losing control of its people, as there is a growing underclass in the multiple millions of unemployed, single men who have little chance of getting married, due to China's gender imbalance and the reality that unless a man has some $$ to his name he's behind the 8-ball so to speak in the marriage-stakes. If this underclass gains some cohesion, it can be a very dangerous situation for the government.

Jacky Chan is effectively selling out in one sense to curry favour with China's rich elite. No more, no less.

Hey I've been over to rural china a couple of times. Song Shan-Henan-Deng Feng area. China is not what we think. it's a very complex culture and country. You can find farmers who having never met a white person at all or anybody different be completely friendly and hospitable. you can meet village folk and city folk who have never seen a caucasian and are very racist. Yes I encounter lots of racism there.

In china to survive the govts scrutiny everybody must play this sort of shell game (deliberatly lying to control what others perceptions are about you)

But in china you have to play the PRC (Govt.s) game. You have to say what you think they want to hear. Even somebody like Jacky Chan could easily be thrown in jail for being dismissive of the PRC's ways. Basically you do largely as you are told.

He probably doesn't mean what he said, but is just appeasing the PRC (govt) which is a good idea if you have to travel through out china all the time.

Even the Shaolin Monks have to play this game. You know when you go to you youtube and see video's of shaolin monks performing. Half of them aren't shaolin monks at all but govt. hired actors. The others that are real monks still have to demonstrate stuff thats not shaolin. They aren't allowed since the PRC's takeover to practice real shaolin kung fu because it's buddhist and taoist based, and you know how china is about religion. When tourists go to train there, again they are taught wushu which is more acrobatics and dance than kung fu. THe chinese govt. tried to destroy all of the traditional martial arts (literally imprisoned and killed half the masters of the arts) and have replaced it with their own version of MA and it's all a bunch of political BS. The shaolin monks still do the real thing behind closed doors at the temple in secret or at temples outside china. The head abbot has to appease the govt, and put up this whole facade, showing fake shaolin MA, downplaying the traditions. stressing to the govt that they are simply just monks doing chan buddhism and are just a tourist attraction. But go behind the scenes and they still do the real thing. but if even buddhist monks have to pretend to believe things they don't really beleive in just to not get thrown in jail then you better believe jacky chan will say whatever he needs to to protect his life too.

Also, westerners learning real shaolin is considered a big no no over in china. like I said racist n all. But some (not all) of the monks are open to training westerners on the down low. but even those monks are ostracised by their supposed brothers.

Also, whats with the Li comment. Li is a very,very, very common family name in china.

even bruce lee's real name is Li Jun Fan. and he has no relation to Li lianjie (Jet Li)

In a sense, philosophically he's right. If you give a society 100% freedom with no rules, you'll eventually get chaos like Lord of the Flies. Give people not enough and there will be organized revolution. There is a fine balance.

Of course it seems as if he was influenced by China to say that. I'm just saying philosophically he's right

[edit on 18-4-2009 by dominicus]

Originally posted by silo13
For him to suck up the cash and fame off first and foremost American’s then to turn and kick them in the groin just really makes me see red...(In more ways than one)...

My shock is wearing off, disappointment turning to real anger.

Pluhease to suck cash and fame off the Americans', he makes money becuase he entertains people with his movies and the stupidios are making far more than him. Guess what he is still going to make more money off Americans....why because most americans couldn' give a rats ass about what he says.

I'm still going to see his movies. Also I assume you know nothing of Chinese culture, you may understand his remarks a bit more and it's not about the stupid simplistic view....gee well they're communist. Try living there and seeing what china is really about instead of worshipping a few sound bites.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
BOO! Jackie BOO!

Censorship

Well he must know something we don't about this situation.
I think it stinks to high heaven.

First Google now this whats next

China?

Blah like America doesn't practice censorship. America does have more brainwashing than China though, that's my observation after living in both societies for a few years each.

It shouldn't be too hard to understand the appeal of authoritarianism in China, given its history.

Ever hear of the Opium Wars?

The Boxer Rebellion?

Given the chaos and fall from greatness that have characterized the last couple centuries of Chinese history, the appeal of a "strong hand" ought not to be underestimated.

We are talking about the oldest continuously existing civilization in the history of the human species.

One that after millennia of being ahead of everyone else, suddenly found itself at the mercy (or lack) of technologically superior cultures.

Given their history, the Chinese have a much harsher and less idealistic view of history than we do.

We have to let them find their own way to the wisdom of a system based on individual liberty. If we really believe in the idea, in its inherent correctness, then we have to trust and have faith that others will find their own path to it.

China's fate is not for us to decide.

[edit on 4/18/09 by xmotex]

also, chinese culture is based generally on very different psychology. When I was over in china last time I asked the locals what they thought about the censorship of the internet. they actually don't mind it and sort of like it. sounds weird cause when I was there, you'd see chinese kids throwing up gang signs because it was american culture and having no clue as to what they were doing. but at the same time they very skeptical of american culture too.

Regarding the internet censorship the gist of most of their answers were

" american culture is sorta like a drug addiction. We didn't want you westerners opium, and we don't want your new drug (our general culture) either" even though they do in some ways revere our culture and hate it at the same time.

It's a weird contradiction or paradox they have going on over there.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


You are correct that Chinese do value their culture and don't neccessarily 'look up' to Western culture as being superior...but I should add the whole censorship thing of the Internet is not as bad as it is made out to be.

Just to clear a few things up, which I have recently said on another thread somewhere, full-unrestricted Internet is available in China, you just have to pay for it.

The second thing is, what is censored is relatively unrelated to Western culture. The biggest thing to do with western culture that is censored at the moment is youtube. But this comes on and off the blacklist periodically.

Second thing to do with censorship in terms of western culture is porn. But still, it is widely available on the Internet if you want it, just that all the big paysites are blacklisted. However, porn on dvd is widely available on the streets in China, so this is a bit ironic in one sense.

Other than that, the vast majority of newssites around the world are accessible, as with bulletin boards etc. The censorship thing is mainly aimed at dissidents, or Chinese people who repeatedly speak out against the Chinese regime.

So, besides youtube, porn and some sites on a certain Chinese spiritual group, the 'Western' world as it were is fully accessible online.

edit: Oh and also gambling sites, these are typically blacklisted, but that in itself may not be a harmful thing.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by cloudbreak]

I was able to get ATS in my hotel room in bejing. you are correct. we do try to demonize china a little. and yet it's not what anybody thinks once they go there. I was basically told not to disclose to the general people I came in contact with there that I was learning at the song shan temple or that I was being actively taught there anything other than wushu (sterilized changquan) not supposed to be mentioning chi gong training, real xiao hong, and da hong etc...being a westerner. strike one. learning non govt approved "wushu" strike two. so low profile was the way to go. hang with the tourists go through the fancy gate at the temple, blend in. come back later go to side gate begin real training. don't let on etc... Not kidding. the abbot has enough problems towing the line with the PRC.

Originally posted by TheComte
That's very sad indeed. What's wrong with being able to do what you want? (Without hurting anyone else, of course.)

Scary that in this day and age people still think like this. "Need to be controlled." Sheesh.

There is no such thing as freedom, every thing we do is for a reason. Therefore we are controlled by our surroundings, desires etc. Stop living in a fantasy.

I have talked with many chinese who believe this. I think it is part of the mental training that tells them that they MUST have tyranny.

Originally posted by Aeons
I have talked with many chinese who believe this. I think it is part of the mental training that tells them that they MUST have tyranny.

On the other hand so many Americans are afraid of their own democratically elected government that they have to have guns in case of tyranny. China will be stronger because their people have faith in their country and government, Americans do not.

BTW, the chinese don't think they live in tyranny.