Abusive border patrol agents "im pretty sure you are a terrorist" {video}

reply to post by jfj123


Please forgive me for not having taken the time to learn to use the 'quote' functions yet.

I notice you have your mood as "Support Troops" . Remember your law enforcement officers are your first line of defense against the ills of society.

You said "all of the officers" you've run into have been "combative". As a civilian, I come into contact with an average of one officer every couple of years. What exactly are you doing to invite your contacts with so many?
Also, were you assaulted? Your use of the word "combative" would indicate that.

Your last comment:
"And let's be honest, there aren't a lot of good cops so we have to hope we get one of the minority out there who won't abuse their position. I haven't ran into any yet but I'll let you know if I do run into a good one."

In 2004 there were over 800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S. I would be absolutely humbled if you have met the "majority" of them. Remember, generalizations work both ways.


[edit on 19-4-2009 by WTFover]

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by jfj123

 

Please forgive me for not having taken the time to learn to use the 'guote' funtions yet.

I notice you have your mood as "Support Troops" . Remember your law enforcement officers are your first line of defense against the ills of society.

I most certainly understand that and I understand they have a VERY difficult job. That difficulty doesn't give them or anyone else the right to disregard the law.

You said "all of the officers" you've run into have been "combative". As a civilian, I come into contact with an average of one officer every couple of years. What exactly are you doing to invite your contacts with so many?

I stop at a donut shop every morning for coffee. Seriously...
Also, I've ran into police at other places.
The latest incident was a cop coming up to my truck while I was in park, sitting in my truck, with it running while I was in front of a UPS store while my business partner ran in to check our mailbox. The cop came up behind my truck all pissed off wondering why I'm in a no parking zone. Shouting at me, "can't you read" ? "What does that sign say right in front of your truck?"
The sign said, no skate boarding, roller blading or roller skating which is what I read to him.
I called me lazy and told me I couldn't have my truck there. I asked him why not. I mentioned that I didn't see any signs and it wasn't a designated fire zone on the curb either. I asked him again where the sign was but he just walked off and called me lazy again.

Another time, a cop yelled at me at a 4 way stop. He claimed I went right through without stopping however I had to stop as a car was traveling in the other direction which he was waving through at the time.

Another time I was pulled over for speeding and not wearing a seat belt. I wasn't speeding and was wearing a seat belt. I had to go to court over this which I won.

Also, were you assaulted? Your use of the word "combative" would indicate that.

Maybe poor word choice on my part. Instead of combative, I'd call them SNOTTY, OBNOXIOUS, etc...

Your last comment:
"And let's be honest, there aren't a lot of good cops so we have to hope we get one of the minority out there who won't abuse their position. I haven't ran into any yet but I'll let you know if I do run into a good one."

In 2004 there were over 800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S. I would be absolutely humbled if you have met the "majority" of them. Remember, generalizations work both ways.

I wasn't very clear about that statement. I should have mentioned something about, at least the ones I've ran into or my friends have ran into. Nobody I know has had positive interaction with a cop that I'm aware of.
Just to be very clear, I am 100% certain there are good cops out there but like I've said, I haven't ran in to any and neither have my friends. We all do our absolute best to be law abiding citizens.

reply to post by skyeyes
skyeyes

Random vehicle searches have produced a large quantity of contraband seizures around the country that would not have been detected without the search.

Are you a cop? This is the kind of attitude that turns this country into a police state. That kind of attitude is the reason my dad left the force.

The Supreme Court has held that random vehicle stops are unreasonable seizures under the Fourth Amendment. Police officers must have probable cause to stop vehicles or a reasonable suspicion that a driver is violating some law or traffic code. Police therefore cannot randomly stop vehicles simply to make checks of drivers licenses or to view drivers and passengers unless there is a reason to suspect them of some kind of wrongdoing. If a police officer does make a random stop of a vehicle, any evidence found in the car or on the passengers can be suppressed.

LeaglmatchLawLibrary
I agree that a "log name may say it all" yours being somewhat ominous itself.

Back on point, the above isn't the same as a roadblock, I know. Roadblocks are upheld if they are completley random i.e. every fifth car or in this case every single car. They still do not have the power to search without probable cause, and as I said earlier refusing consent cannot in and of itself be considered probable cause. This is continually upheld even in the lower courts.

Do any of you cops realize how much contraband is in people's houses? Shouldn't we just let you all randomly search our houses too just to be on the safe side?

Thank you 3DPrisoner, saved me some time. This is what it will eventually come to, along with sidewalk checkpoints, and DNA samplings. Why wast time searching, how about neighborhood UAs?

What it really boils down to is are we, the citizens of the United States

GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT or INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?????

All of these encroachments are forcing us to prove we have done nothing wrong! Used to be we were afforded the benefit of the doubt. now we are doubted first. When we refuse to play along it becomes cause for further action. This is the concept of what a police state is guilty until proven innocent.

reply to post by jfj123


Generally speaking, LEO see people at their worst. So, are they to assume this is the condition of all civilians? No. And neither should they be subjected to this kind of ridiculous generalization.

I will cede the fact that there are some horrible cops out there. The fault for that lies solely on the administration for allowing them to remain on the job. There are some who are racist, some who are chauvinistic, some who are homo-phobic, some who are stupid, some are domineering, some are criminals and some who are just worthless human beings. I've worked with some and recommended some for termination.

Overall, the people in law enforcement are a cross section of society. The bad ones, though in the minority, always stick out in our minds.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by jfj123

 

Generally speaking, LEO see people at their worst. So, are they to assume this is the condition of all civilians? No. And neither should they be subjected to this kind of ridiculous generalization.

I only spoke of my encounters and my friends encounters with police.

Overall, the people in law enforcement are a cross section of society. The bad ones, though in the minority, always stick out in our minds.

That may be true. Unfortunately I've ONLY run into the bad ones so I can't say they are a minority. Again, this is just my experience.



But let's ask everyone else here.
Has ANYONE here had a positive experience with a law enforcement official????
Are my experiences outside the norm?????

Originally posted by treemanx
Are you kidding me??? Where is your back bone? Do you know how many people have fought and died for your freedom that you so willingly give up? You can keep your common sense, because it is definately not my sense.

My back bone is below my brain. I use my brain first, and save my back bone for when the time is truly needed. Cooperating with peace officers is actually "supporting freedom", because they are protecting all of us, so that we can be free.

Originally posted by treemanx
You want to just hide in a corner and hope the gov dosent take away any more of your freedoms if you dare to stand up for what rights are yours? THAT is the problem with this country today, spineless whiners who are afraid to stand up and call BS if theyre rights are being infringed upon.

Hide in the corner? Spineless whiners?

The real problem with this country is that common sense is not common anymore. Actually the other problem is the average I.Q. of each American.

Listen closely, I already know my rights. I know I can pull up to a border patrol and do exactly what the pastor did (whine with a spine). That doesn't mean I am going to do it just to prove a point, because I have a high enough I.Q. to understand that their job is based around walking on that very thin line called the freedom border. They have to decide which side of the line they are going to walk, with each person they encounter.

If you cooperate, they will gladly walk on the freedom side of the line. Freedom to do their job correctly, and freedom for you to pass through to enjoy more freedom.

If you don't cooperate, and you take away their freedom to do their job correctly, guess what, they are going to walk with you on the not so free side of the freedom border until they feel safe, and are assured that you are capable of handling freedom along side with them.

"Terrorist", or anyone who wants to harm anyone inside the U.S. are not capable of handling freedom. They abuse it, and take advantage of it, to do illegal things, and harm people (taking away their freedom from terror).

Being "free" does not include "freedom to do illegal things", and the peace officers are enforcing that.

Originally posted by treemanx
I dont know this guy at all, but I appreciate what he did in the video, and MAYBE that will bring some CHANGE.

The only thing this pastor will change by making this video, is the laws. I certainly don't want some terrorist doing what the pastor did. Actually, this video most probably will give potential terrorists ideas on how to get past the border patrol.

Using some not-so-common common sense, all this pastor was successful at doing is showing the world that the peace officers, and their higher ups, gave in, caved in, folded, and failed at their job. It shows them their weakness, and it shows them their mistake of letting him go through without being fully checked.

Originally posted by treemanx
You need to wake up bud, and smell the coffee. Im glad there are people like him out there, becasue if we all had your opinion, we'd be living in Russia right now.

If we all had your opinion, and the opinion of the pastor, we would be forcing them to create laws that make their job easier. It might be too late already.

You are asleep and talking in your dreams, and you can not wake up those whose eyes have been open watching you sleep.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by 0nce 0nce]

reply to post by jfj123

But let's ask everyone else here.
Has ANYONE here had a positive experience with a law enforcement official????
Are my experiences outside the norm?????

NO.

In fairness though how can one really have a positive experience with law enforcement?

In the '50s when beat cops knew the people in their area by name, and everybody knew them. Those cops were there To Protect and To Serve and people knew it. Kids wanted to become cops because they were liked and respected. It was an honerable profession with a good cause. Stopping to say hi and have a chat with your local officer was something that you did just as you would when running in to a neighbor at the Kwik-E-Mart, they were a welcome part of the community.

Today cops have a different outlook. They are there to bust you, everyone is a potential criminal. If you are not that cops known and trusted accuantence, when he talks to you he is looking for a bust. Todays cops have a level of suspiscion that rivals that of an occupying force. Kids don't like cops and would cross the street to avoid passing one. The few kids that want to join want to do it for the power associated with the badge. This also perpetuates the type of people who are enrolling, snowballing the effect and widening the gap between Us and Them.

I have had tolerable experiences with law enforcement and I have had inexcusable and flagrant violations of my rights at their hands, but I cannot say that I have had a positive experience.

Originally posted by 0nce 0nce

Cooperating with peace officers is actually "supporting freedom", because they are protecting all of us, so that we can be free.

Cooperating with officers in their lawful commission of their duty supports freedom. Cooperating with those who violates the law is not.
When jews were rounded up in nazi germany, they were "cooperating" with officers too. By your logic, you must also be in support of that. Right?

The real problem with this country is that common sense is not common anymore. Actually the other problem is the average I.Q. of each American.

I agree. You may want to read the Constitution of the United States before making further posts on this subject.

Listen closely, I already know my rights.

You may, you may not. What is clear is that you don't care about them.

I know I can pull up to a border patrol and do exactly what the pastor did (whine with a spine). That doesn't mean I am going to do it just to prove a point, because I have a high enough I.Q. to understand that their job is based around walking on that very thin line called the freedom border. They have to decide which side of the line they are going to walk, with each person they encounter.

Up to this point, you've brought up your high IQ 2 times yet you're missing the entire point.

If you cooperate, they will gladly walk on the freedom side of the line.

Big assumption.

Freedom to do their job correctly, and freedom for you to pass through to enjoy more freedom.

So you're saying we must give up freedom to have freedom ? ? ? ?

If you don't cooperate, and you take away their freedom to do their job correctly, guess what, they are going to walk with you on the not so free side of the freedom border until they feel safe, and are assured that you are capable of handling freedom along side with them.

So if you don't cooperate, it'll just get even worse for you?

"Terrorist", or anyone who wants to harm anyone inside the U.S. are not capable of handling freedom.

Including but not limited to those officers.

They abuse it, and take advantage of it, to do illegal things, and harm people (taking away their freedom from terror).

Being "free" does not include "freedom to do illegal things", and the peace officers are enforcing that.

You can't stop crimes by committing them and claim it was done for the greater good. If you think this way, I'd like to take this opportunity to refer you to nazi germany.

The only thing this pastor will change by making this video, is the laws. I certainly don't want some terrorist doing what the pastor did. Actually, this video most probably will give potential terrorists ideas on how to get past the border patrol.

If you're more worried about terrorists then your freedom, might I suggest you move to a country where there are NO rights.

Using some not-so-common common sense, all this pastor was successful at doing is showing the world that the peace officers, and their higher ups, gave in, caved in, folded, and failed at their job.

By letting him pass, they DID their job. They upheld the Constitution.....Can't believe you're still not getting this concept.

""Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety""

reply to post by jfj123



I can't believe YOU don't get it yet. Let me make it more clear.

People are very similar, and there is always multiple people with similar thoughts. For every thought YOU have, there is thousands of people who will have similar thoughts. For every thought that pastor has, there will be thousands with similar thoughts. For every thought I have there will be thousands who have similar thoughts...

Now let me tell you my thought;

The border patrol has 3 main things to do in their job.
1: Look for suspicious acting persons, and out of the ordinary reactions.
2: Look for hidden persons trying to sneak past the border.
3: Look for weapons, drugs, and anything illegal that may be hidden.

THEY FAILED ALL THREE IN THE VIDEO! I don't feel safe now...

Do you get it?

not sure if this was addressed or not, but he should have told them that be him refusing to allow an illegal search is NOT reason for suspicion.

Originally posted by jfj123
""Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety""

We wouldn't have to be "giving up essential liberty" to purchase "a little temporary safety" if you did your job as a real American citizen...

By this I mean...

Originally posted by jfj123

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

- pastor Martin Niemoller -

[edit on 18-4-2009 by jfj123]

Now's your chance to speak up before it's too late. Speak up by speaking OUT against illegal immigration as well as speaking OUT against the paper-pushers in Washington in regards to their sub-par performance in upholding appropriate border security policy measures.

Commit to your obligations as a US Citizen and uphold and protect your fellow citizens against malevolent foreigners who threaten the very profound ideologies that the Constitution Of The United States (illegal immigrants, drug-runners, drug smugglers, human-traffickers, terrorists, etc) represents. The same constitution you are so vehemently adamant about emphasizing that a law-enforcement/federal agent should abide by. You must do the same as well. Because if you don't? Then you're perpetuating a double-standard. And by doing that you are no different than the people who 'sacrifice freedom in exchange for added temporary security' because by creating that double standard you are accessory to enabling the men and women sitting behind desks in Washington DC to enact the very laws that "sacrifice of freedom in exchange for added security" because they also hide behind similar double-standards which powers their system of putting politics first above all else.

Act now by being an active participant in preserving your freedom!

[edit on 4/19/09 by Marked One]

this guy is an asshat. He was doing this and video taping it in the hopes of this happening. ive seen two other videos of the same guy. its a wonder that the other videos ive seen didnt end in this way.

It amazes me the level of responders here:

"Just turn over and take it and they will let you go. Your ass might hurt, but you'll still be free to go."

Again: Pathetic IMO.

I have heard that if an applicant for law enforcement is tested with an IQ above a certain, and fairly low result, they are determined unqualified.

I wonder if this applies to the border patrol as well.

If this is the case, I would not qualify.

Just one more reason I would never apply for such a position.

Originally posted by imd12c4funn
I have heard that if an applicant for law enforcement is tested with an IQ above a certain, and fairly low result, they are determined unqualified.

I wonder if this applies to the border patrol as well.

If this is the case, I would not qualify.

Just one more reason I would never apply for such a position.

Now thats just a little ridiculous, don't you think?

Originally posted by 0nce 0nce
reply to post by jfj123

 

Now let me tell you my thought;

The border patrol has 3 main things to do in their job.
1: Look for suspicious acting persons, and out of the ordinary reactions.
2: Look for hidden persons trying to sneak past the border.
3: Look for weapons, drugs, and anything illegal that may be hidden.

THEY FAILED ALL THREE IN THE VIDEO! I don't feel safe now...

Do you get it?

They must do those things within the confines of the law.
Since you don't feel safe, you must want the border patrol to do things outside the existing laws.

If you want to feel more safe, you must want the police to:
1. Perform stops and searches of people and their vehicles EVERYWHERE within the boarders of the United States. The more people they stop, the more of the 3 things they'll find so you'll feel more safe.
2. Enter any and all homes without warrants within the boarders of the United States, to find those 3 things so you'll feel even more safe.

Let's give up all our rights so we can FEEL more safe.

do YOU get it?????

Originally posted by Griff
It amazes me the level of responders here:

"Just turn over and take it and they will let you go. Your ass might hurt, but you'll still be free to go."

Again: Pathetic IMO.

I completely agree and I give you a star sir

Too many people would rather lose their rights then be inconvenienced.

I simply don't get it

Has anybody asked yet,
If these agents are so willing to violate the highest law in the land-The Constitution, as a matter of policy, what else would they do as a matter of policy?

They're willing to violate the Constitution so is it really that far a reach that they might plant evidence or assault a preacher?

reply to post by ChaosComplex

Originally posted by imd12c4funn
I have heard that if an applicant for law enforcement is tested with an IQ above a certain, and fairly low result, they are determined unqualified.

I wonder if this applies to the border patrol as well.

If this is the case, I would not qualify.

Just one more reason I would never apply for such a position.

Now thats just a little ridiculous, don't you think?

Yes I do! In fact I think it's more than rediculous. I think it is a very telling indication that the governments only goals are to stay in power and to seize even more power, wouldn't want anyone to "think" or question the actions taken to acheive such goals, would they?

In a ruling made public on Tuesday, Judge Peter C. Dorsey of the United States District Court in New Haven agreed that the plaintiff, Robert Jordan, was denied an opportunity to interview for a police job because of his high test scores. But he said that that did not mean Mr. Jordan was a victim of discrimination.

Judge Dorsey ruled that Mr. Jordan was not denied equal protection because the city of New London applied the same standard to everyone: anyone who scored too high was rejected.
The New York Times

This guy was just looking for trouble..in my opinion, he did this on purpose, he goes through there often i take it.. (work) so knew what to expect..and had his camera ready to record the whole thing. I'd HATE to go anywhere with him.
local pub? a meal? the mall? he'd probably cause a scene anywhere.

OK someone made an excellent point about the 100 mile checkpoint. extra little checkpoints inside America.
Why cant they take those extra officers from all the inside checkpoints, put them on the actual border?

IF PEOPLE ARE CLIMBING OVER YOUR WALL..YOU DON'T BUILD ANOTHER SMALL ONE FURTHER IN...YOU ADD TO THE ONE YOU HAVE!

sorry i love similies....