Abusive border patrol agents "im pretty sure you are a terrorist" {video}

Isn't Aly's example is out of context? I am assuming that referenced incident is a face to face encounter. I am under the impression that a vehicle is "private property" and it therefore is not subject to automatic searches without probable cause.

After seeing the guys bloddy face in the 2nd video, I am totally infuriated of this occurance. I hope he gets at least 15 million. 5 for each taze, and 5 for the head slam.


For reference, I record "without the cop knowing" my encounters with officers nowadays. 2 button hotkey on the cellphone for voice or video.

1/15/09- I was stopped for running a YELLOW light. The cop came to my window and said, "You ran a red light". I immediately responded, no the light was yellow, she then said, "well, what do you do when you face a yellow light" I responded that I had to make a judgement at 45 MPH and I knew I would make it before it turned red. We argued for a few seconds, then she said "I'll be right back with your ticket".

Long story short, given ticket for a red light, was thrown out of court due to my audio evidence that she admitted with me "THE LIGHT WAS YELLOW"

Carry a video/voice recorder everywhere!

[edit on 19-4-2009 by sticky]

[edit on 19-4-2009 by sticky]

reply to post by 3DPrisoner


Well your log in name may say it all. I always enjoy a good discussion
You know I've been through a few border patrol checkpoints myself. Sometimes in my personal vehicle and once in a moving truck. I've been waved through each time. I may be wrong but I believe that there are signs at these checkpoints that say "Your Vehicle May Be Subject To Search". I know that at the border checkpoints the agents run K-9's randomly around vehicles entering the states while they're waiting in line. K-9 alerts on the car, guess what, VEHICLE SEARCH! The streets and highways of this great nation of ours are considered public. The Supreme Court has ruled that when a person is out in the public eye, there is no expectation of privacy. All a cop needs to detain someone, as also ruled by the Supreme Court, is reason to believe that the person is about to commit a crime, is commiting a crime, or has commited a crime, read Terry v. Ohio Supreme Court Ruling, and it doesn't matter if the person in question is walking on foot or in a vehicle. Supreme Court also ruled that all the air around a vehicle is free air. So that means that law enforcement can run a K-9 around the outside of any vehicle that they wish to. I'm all for protecting the rights of citizens, but sometimes these fanatics get a little rediculous. I truly believe that the reason the border patrol agents let this guy through is because they didn't want the bad publicity of the media and to have the command come down on them for doing their jobs. And I do know for a fact that law enforcement agencies will bend because of public perception.

reply to post by bringthelight


he has another video were he dose get the # beat out of him and bad he is a pastor to for some church to my thing is what are we going to have to do to stop this bull# i no this you lay your hand on me and i will fight back .i dont give a # what badge you have on i have one to and mine says AMERICAN BADASS do on to others as they do on to you .i dont like conflict at all but i also only show respect to those that show me the same .this and so many other things i see going on .i no i will end up in jail .if we start fight back then maybe they will think twice before doing # like this screw all law enforcement to protect and serve thats as bad as saying all men are equal .how many people die every year or are framed or a family destroyed because of them i could go on and on but we all no.so again how much more has to happen before we stand up and put them in check really how much more or you dont care unless it happens to you give it time it will

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

look another person that has no ideal what America is all about just another brain washed slave good for you

OK there are two basic viewpoints on this thread

1. The driver was rude and provoked the officers. If he just complied with them and answered his questions they would have let him be on his way.

2. The driver was just stating his constitutional rights. The officers had no basis for suspicion and should have let him pass regardless of his attitude.

It just a simple case of 2 different egos or viewpoints butting heads here.

The driver was sick of being held up in traffic everyday for a check point he felt was against the constitution. Many people, possibly some of his family members, have fought and died to protect the constitution and what it stands for. Sitting in traffic and being stopped on your drive to work everyday for something you believe is infringing upon your basic human rights to be free, is very frustrating im sure. So I can see where his anger comes from.

The ICE officers feel they are keeping America safe. Their job is to stop suspicious cars and search them. No here is the problem. There are some legitimate cops and border patrol officers that join the force to keep people safe. There are other types of officers who join the force strictly for the power trip. These guys were all about the power. I saw it in their eyes, in their words, and body language. They were like rabid dogs ready to pounce. They were also trying to escalate the situation, hoping it would lead to the driver out in the open where they could "get" him.

The fact is, if their weren't people like the driver standing up for our basic rights as humans....we wouldn't have them anymore.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by bringthelight]

Originally posted by UFORacer56
Look there is a difference between sticking up for your Constitutional Rights and trying to make a scene of yourself sticking up for your Constitutional Rights.

ummmm....really???
Le me make sure I have this right.
It's ok to stick up for your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS as long as it doesn't make a scene?

Why did he have the camera on when he got there?

Because people lie and the camera is a witness. If he sued in court, would the jury believe him or the 1/2 dozen checkpoint officers who all told the same story how HE assaulted THEM first ????

Why didn't he just answer that he is an American Citizen, maybe showing some credentials?

1. He was already within the US boarders.
2. Ever hear of Kristallnacht?

It is a big difference when you are in your home or on private property and a government agency starts questioning you.

Really? how? Please be specific stating case differences utilizing illegal search and seizure.

But you are driving on a state road, which is a privilege, that just so happens to be frequented by drug dealers, coyotes (human smugglers),

Actually free travel within the boarders of the United States by a United States citizen is a right. Driving is priviledge.

He wants the attention. He wants to be angry. Fine by me, it's your reputation.

Yes he wants to bring attention to our eroding Constitutional Rights.

So why don't we all just start being non-compliant?

To illegal requests??? probably a good idea.
Just because someone has a uniform on doesn't put them above the Constitution or automatically mean they are correct.

I am sure that will decrease the violence that is coming over from Mexico... right?

It's the price of living in a free society.
If you are more worried about being safe then free, this is what would need to happen.
All property would be subject to search without notice or warrant.
All persons would be subject to search without notice or warrant.
All persons would be subject to arrest on suspicion only and without probably cause.
All communications would be monitored at all times without notice or warrant.
All travel would be subject to GPS Surveillance.
All purchases would be subject to inspection.
Any and all data associated with a person would be subject to collection, processing and interpretation.
All personal associations (friends, girlfriends, family, etc..) would subject you personally to suspicion if the association committed any "offense" perceived or real.

And that would be just the start.
How does that sound????

As you say, "you sir have FAILED".


[edit on 19-4-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by Solarskye
I'm sickened to think that just because you get your butt kicked that you deserve a million dollars. This suing crap has got to stop.

I hope he gets 5 million. It will send a message that it's not ok to trample on the Constitution.

Yes the pastor was exercising his rights under the constitution and the 4th amendment but he pretty much gave these border agents " probable cause " by the way he acted. You can defend your rights but being a jerk about it won't help your case.

So you're saying that because the agents didn't like his attitude, it was ok for them to violate the 4th amendment???

Sure he could have been nicer about it but so what?

I've seen this guys videos before and he always has his camera with him.

It's called a WITNESS !!
Awww wait a minute...he didn't really need the camera. What are they going to do, taser him, pull him out of his car and beat him ??? They wouldn't do that... OH WAIT THEY DID !!!

Where's the video of him getting his butt whipped?

I'll give you a hint.
The agents have it. Pretty big hint I know but what the heck.

When did we begin to have to show "öur papers" in Amerirka? The Agent said that he was a sworn peace officer and if this were true, he would also have sworn to uphold the Constitution. George W. Bush said that the Constitution was just an old piece of paper and most Americans have begun to believe it. Fight for every God given right that our forefathers bled and died for. I am a 7th generation Texan and my family has shed blood all over this planet for my right to travel freely and unmolested within the US. Every patriot should refuse to co-operate with these thugs and take part in the new revolution. There should be a 24 hr TV channel that explains the Constitution in an entertaining manner and teach it to the 80% of Americans that have never read it or find it impossible to understand. It was written simply and should be obvious what rights we have lost and how to take them back. Read your Bill of Rights and carry them with you fi you are unable to memorize them.

This kind of authority is bastardized out of the national security authority of the feds in the constitution. What the fed should be in these cases is an advisory service to the states not an army with rights to standardize unconstitutional abuses against the citizens. The fundamental problem here is that the states of been coerced in one way or another into believing in the fed authority to impose it's armies on the states. The states should simply say no to fed armies such as the border patrol, FBI, national park rangers, etc., and only take advise from the feds under consideration.

Originally posted by skyeyes
reply to post by 3DPrisoner

 

I may be wrong but I believe that there are signs at these checkpoints that say "Your Vehicle May Be Subject To Search"...

So? Are you saying a sign is all that is required to circumvent your constitutional rights? How about a sign that says, "All Jews will be sent to a concentration camp"? As a song from my generation stated, "Signs, signs, everywhere there are signs, blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind. Do this, don't do that. Can't you read the sign? And the sign said anyone caught trespassing will be shot on sight!" All good little sheeple follow the signs.

Originally posted by prjct
.now for sure the the patrol dudes were way out of line - at least from what we've all seen, yet the "pastor" seems to be a bit out of line himself.....

Reminds me of a song.

"Step out of line
and the man come
and take you away

Hey it's time we
stop now
what's that sound?
Everybody look
what's going down"

Pathetic.

There is knowing your rights and protecting them, and then there is slapping your rights across the face of authority because you feel you can.

I understand that there are power hungry idiots who wears badges. But I also know that it's becoming a much more dangerous job, it's utterly thankless, but crucial more now than ever.

How many people actually respect those officers that do their jobs properly? Not many. They are ridiculed and called power mad, and scorned... for doing their jobs.

People in the States feel so entitled, it makes me sick sometimes. In some countries, when you go to the airport, every single bag of your is rifled through, and all the guards carry around loaded rifles. We have it so easy it's ridiculous, and yet people still complain. It's my RIGHT to go across the border without a check, I can do anything I want! pfft...

I have to say that as a Canadian we tend to have a little latitude for police officers, however even here there are starting to be a few problems like late teen girls beging stopped and inferred they are a prostitute at 2pm on a Sunday afternoon when they are walking home because they might live in a bad area.

And that is the point right? Either you are free 24 hours a day, or you are not. Either you are free in our country of you are not. Law is black and white, and the only judgement is supposed to be of a Judge who is versed in all sides free of emotion.

These border patrol agents are not known to be free of emotion. They are to work within a system. All they had to do is say that he was detained, and he would comply. Yet they did not do so, and that is most likely because that detainment would be without merit, and there could be civil proceedings.

And that is why you need a black and white rule free of judgement by the individual border patrol agent. It keeps a hidden prejudiced black agent from persecuting say a Spanish man who had a stroke at one time and poor speech, who might flag himself.

So the question is. Do you have a right to live your life without being hassled or not? Does a 19 yo old have the right to walk through a bad neighbourhood at 2pm on a Sunday enjoying the Sun, or does she get to have her rights violated just because the neighbourhood has prostitutes as well.

Does a person get to go out of their home, and wander the desert aimlessly in the USA without purpose and come back home without having to be question about his right to be there where he is, or why he was there.

And in my case do I have the right to go to the local park at 4am and meditate under the stars to Angelic presences and not be hassled, or should I be hassled just because most people are in bed asleep.

I think that these people should be thanked. Just change your constutional law to give these other agencies power over your life. Simple. That is all they are saying. However today it is 100 miles from the border, tomorrow it can be on an intersection in New York. And when you go to the grocery store with your child you could be stopped them, because if they can bend the law and constitution there, they eventually can bend it anywhere.

Originally posted by fleabit
How many people actually respect those officers that do their jobs properly? Not many. They are ridiculed and called power mad, and scorned... for doing their jobs.

No, they are "ridiculed and called power mad, and scorned..." for abusing the trust placed in them by their employers (the American citizen). They are "ridiculed and called power mad, and scorned..." for bullying citizens and in some cases killing and causing serious bodily injury to innocent citizens as a sign of their excessive testosterone persona.

Enough of these cases are coming to the fore now that public awareness of these cases is causing a backlash to evolve amongst victims of the police state. This disdain for cops by the public can be laid at their own feet. They must police themselves or face a well armed and informed public that is loosing patience...their choice.

My final thought on this topic.

I am amazed at the number of people who equate "freedom" with being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want and wherever you want, with impunity. You are either very confused or just want to use any excuse to promote anarchy. That is not what our brave fought and died to protect.

What about my right to be: free from the dangers of potentially violent criminals; free from the theft of my property by dope fiends and other pieces of crap; free to know my family is reasonably safe when they leave home; free to not have my children and grandchildren bombarded with the threat of dangerous drugs; free from the threat of terrorist attacks and smuggling of WMD into my neighborhood; free from the abuses of our system by some illegal immigrants; free to not have my job given to an illegal alien who will do it cheaper. The list is endless.

Do these "freedoms" not mean anything to you? They certainly do to me! I fail to see how a Border Patrol check point is such a horrible transgression into our "freedoms". And, your slippery slope argument falls on deaf ears here, in this circumstance.

The most important thing missing in many of the posts, defending this guy's actions, is common sense. When you demand the "freedom" from being stopped and interviewed at a Border Patrol check point, you are demanding the same "freedom" to those who intend to do you and your family harm.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
I know what this guy was trying to do and i know he was thinking this would prove something. But honestly this guy was wrong! IF he would have just answered the CBP officers questions he would not have been referred to secondary inspection and he would have been on his way.

Just curious but if a law enforcement official stopped you while you were walking down the street and asked to see your license then asked what you were doing there, and question you, what would you do? Would you think this is acceptable ?

Originally posted by skyeyes
O.K.
Here we go again! I only had to watch this video for about two minutes to come to the conclusion that his guy is a MOORON!!! He obvioulsy was testing the agents and had his own agenda. He was RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL, and an IDIOT!

Was he rude? of course. Could he have been nicer about it? of course.
What makes him a moron? The fact that he stood up for his CONSTITUTIONAL right?

These guys who work on the front lines to protect America are just like you and me. They just want to do their job and go home. Not deal with A**HOLES who are trying to provoke you.

But they must do their jobs within the boundary of the law.

Some of you obviously think this guy is a victim!?

Because he is. Simple really.

Well he made himself one!

I suppose you could say that by standing up for his Constitutional rights, he made himself a victim. I suppose you could say that.

This is not some poor guy who was stopped at a check point on his way to see his wife with gifts for his dying mother.

Irrelevant.

This JERK did this on purpose to agitate the agents.

He didn't do it to agitate anyone. He did it to stand up for his Constitutional rights.

I'll bet that people who meet this person for the first time don't get a very good impression.

Hard to say.

You have to give respect in order to get it!

He should have been nicer admittedly but it's irrelevant whether he was nice or not.

Remember, treat others as you would want to be treated!

So if you don't violate anyone else's Constitutional rights, they won't violate yours?

All he had to do was roll down the window and answer the questions and be on his way. But NOOOOOO! ROCKET SCIENTIST here just wanted to show his butt! Bet ya this guy doesn't have many friends. I would be within a mile of this dude!

Sure, it's easier to go along even if it violates your rights. It's easy to NOT stand up for yourself.

I know this is a different circumstance but I have run into a problem at a building supply center. This particular center posted security guards approximately 10 ft from the registers and when you walked by they would stop you and ask to see your receipt. My response was always, "no thank you". Most of the time they would just look at me as I walked by. One stopped me and said I must show him my receipt. I replied that there is no law that requires this of me and if you attempt to detain me further, I'll call the police. He looked at me for a moment until I grabbed my cellphone and started dialing the police and he stepped aside. I complained to the corporate office about this behavior and about 1 week later all the security guards went away. I was VERY surprised that they got rid of all the stationed security so my only guess is that many others complained about their rights being violated.

I've been raised to respect our law enforcement officials as they have a hard jobs but I also understand that they must do it within the bounds of the law or it will lead to chaos.

Originally posted by WTFover
One other point I'd like to make here. As a law enforcement officer for fifteen years, I was never issued a crystal ball and did not have a psychic partner. The only way to determine if a particular person was involved in a particular crime was to talk to and listen to them. Its called communication. It really is very simple and painless.

For you but if that person says the wrong these, as we all do from time to time, it can become very painful for him/her.

If any of you know how to identify a person who has committed a crime, without asking them a few questions, I'm sure the law enforcement community would be glad to learn. It would, after all, make their job a lot more safe than having to actually come into contact with potentially violent criminals.

The 5th amendment says that person doesn't have to talk to you.

Look, I know police have a horribly hard job but having us giving up our rights to make it easier for them/you, isn't the way to fix things.

You really want to make things safer,
Just have the police do random stops/searches.
Search homes, vehicles, etc. without warrants.
Bug all communications. etc....
etc..
we'll be safer but we'll be prisoners.

Originally posted by skyeyes
reply to post by WTFover

 

I agree with you WTFover,
I've been doing it for ten years and communication is the issue. Don't think that communication worked here. This guy just wanted to be an A**. You can determine many things through dialog. I always tell people who I come into contact with that at least for we street officers, honesty goes a long way. They may have to take the ride for what they did, but they were honest, and good cops can work with that.

Obviously you're looking at it from the officers side.
Being honest may or may not do anything. Saying nothing at all at least insures something you said won't be used against you.
All of the officers I've ran into have been very combative. I wouldn't share my favorite color with them. And before you ask, I'm always nice until someone else is not nice.

And let's be honest, there aren't a lot of good cops so we have to hope we get one of the minority out there who won't abuse their position. I haven't ran into any yet but I'll let you know if I do run into a good one.

Originally posted by skyeyes
Do any of you realize how much contraband is transported in vehicle's throughout our country?

A bunch !

What does a vehicle that is transporting contraband look like?

It could be in any vehicle, anywhere in the country and anyone could be driving the vehicle.

Do any of you realize just what type, and how much crime is occurring in your streets, who is the victim, who is the suspect?!

A victim an be anyone.
A suspect could be anyone also.

Who is sneaking around out there while you're sleeping?

It could be anyone.

Who is the crackhead just looking to steal to get the next hit, who is the dangerous criminal who is going to break into your house while armed?

Again, nobody can tell so it could be anyone. They don't wear tags that say thief, drug addict, killer, etc..

Random vehicle searches have produced a large quantity of contraband seizures around the country that would not have been detected without the search.

I'm sure they have.
So the more vehicles we search, the better then?
The more people we stop, the better?
The more houses we search the better?

I mean if more is better, why should we stop at these checkpoints? Why shouldn't we search everyone? That way we'll find all the drugs, all the weapons, all the bad stuff.