USA vs. the World

Originally posted by skippytjc
I must admit the US is very adept at destroying things.

U know it. The annihilation of Iraq's military during the Persian Gulf War was definitely something to see.. firsthand.

Take people from China and let the Germans train them, take tanks, airplanes and naval force from the Russians and upgrade it with Japan technology, than get an idiot like G. W. Bush (Hitler reborn) and the US has no chance to survive.
Simple as that. But in the end, why create such a superpower? Just wait a few more years and US will fall becouse of their economy. WW2 thing? You came to Europe when most of the axis forces were already destroyed... ah why should I even bother. After all, only America is stupid enough to create meanningless wars.

Originally posted by Danger99
Take people from China and let the Germans train them, take tanks, airplanes and naval force from the Russians and upgrade it with Japan technology, than get an idiot like G. W. Bush (Hitler reborn) and the US has no chance to survive.
Simple as that. But in the end, why create such a superpower? Just wait a few more years and US will fall becouse of their economy. WW2 thing? You came to Europe when most of the axis forces were already destroyed... ah why should I even bother. After all, only America is stupid enough to create meanningless wars.

Um...You forget Japan? The US was fighting on many fronts. The US was key in WWII. The only country to survive by themselves over there from the Axis was Russia. And even then it had more to do with geography and seasonality than anything else. Hey, say what you want about the US today, but back then the USA basically saved the world. The USA filled the gap.

And as far as Russia and China today, they would destroy each other long before any alliance would form.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Um...You forget Japan?

Japan, that country FDR so brilliantly manipulated into attacking us (so as to involve us in the greater war).

The only country to survive by themselves over there from the Axis was Russia.

The only country to survive.. all of the western powers pretty much kicked the shyte outta each other by the time we were into the European/African theaters. It's not that difficult for a large, well prepared force to kick the azz of one that's already partially destroyed (Germany) and led by a complete maroon.

Hitler was a total idiot for going to Stalingrad. His hunger for power was his undoing.

And as far as Russia and China today, they would destroy each other long before any alliance would form.

Russia and China are allying themselves. You might wanna look in to that if you don't believe me. The foreign press is a great place to start. They actually talk about stuff our media wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Like how adversely this administration's policies are actually affecting relations across the globe. Russia and China are being pushed towards one another b/c of it. For anyone who follows end-time prophecy as described in the New Testament, the reality of their alliance is as clear as the nose on your face.

I found this excellent article. Thot I'd share. It explains the USA's growing weaknesses. I wish we had a real president who actually loved his/her country. Maybe then we could turn things around.

Financial Times, 25 January 2005

How the U.S. Became the World's Dispensable Nation

by Michael Lind

In a second inaugural address tinged with evangelical zeal, George W. Bush declared: "Today, America speaks anew to the peoples of the world." The peoples of the world, however, do not seem to be listening. A new world order is indeed emerging - but its architecture is being drafted in Asia and Europe, at meetings to which Americans have not been invited.
fairuse.1accesshost.com...

Um...You forget Japan? The US was fighting on many fronts. The US was key in WWII.

All countries allied with the US were fighting on many fronts, and every one of those countries was key to the war, not just the US.

Tahlen

[edit on 5-2-2005 by Tahlen]

Um...You forget Japan? The US was fighting on many fronts. The US was key in WWII.

On D-Day the western allies landed 8 divisions onto the beaches of Normany. The Russians had 128 divisions in the field. The US didn't defeat Germany the Russians did!

You should also check out the history of the British, Chinese and Austrailians fighting in the Pacific. The US were far from alone in that theatre.

Originally posted by paperplane_uk


On D-Day the western allies landed 8 divisions onto the beaches of Normany. The Russians had 128 divisions in the field. The US didn't defeat Germany the Russians did!

And the Russians would have likely lost all 128 divisions if the US and UK were not bombing Germany each and every single day.

Heh, I wouldn't get started on the whole 'who REALLY won WWII debate'. Without Russia, the bulk of the German forces would have been meeting the other Allies head on, and vice versa. Without each other, they may very well have failed. But that's not important.



So, the whole world against the United States. Plausible. I won't say that it won't happen. I don't, however, expect the rest of the world to trigger it. It'd be difficult to take on the US, sure, but it we Yanks aren't gods. We can be defeated.

The US controls half a continent. We're not the greatest nation ever, people. You wanna look at the greatest nation/government ever, I'd have to give that to Rome. They had most of the settled world under their power, after all.

But, let's look at Rome, or any empire for that matter. Rome, dominating most of the world. A force that should never be reckoned with unless you wanted a shiny pike up your arse. Legions that couldn't be stopped by conventional armies. They thought themselves to be the most powerful empire, and one that could never be defeated. Rome... where'd it go? Definately not the undefeatable empire, was it? No, the mightiest force crumbled from poor leadership and crappy morale. ....Topped off with eleventy billion European tribes rushing in to give them the ass whooping of their lives. Those crazy European hordes. Bye-bye Rome. Same with any other ancient power. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and so on.

I'm sure every world power that's been in domination over other nations thought itself to be invincible. But, as we should all know, that's simply not true. It's ignorant to think that you're invincible. America could get beaten by the rest of the world. Sure, I'd expect a nuclear holocaust to take place in the process, but I can see America going down before the final end.


Like I said before, I don't really think the Europeans would start it. I would see America going into civil war before Europe got involved. Like that Titor stuff, if you believe it (I don't, but he has some good points). I'd see a bunch of American rebels fighting, and then the powers moving in when they saw the chance. Russia, China, etc. teaming up to bring down the government. Britain is, of course, the wildcard. Britain itself might be torn when it comes down to it (I know a bunch of you guys are anti-America, correct?). Bloody, bloody, that's for sure.

Russia's got great technology and a lot of manpower. Same with China. Sweden has some nice planes and a lot of money. France and Germany would put a major dent in US forces. Britain, if against the US, are a mighty force despite being crammed onto a couple of tiny islands. Plus, if you cut the US off from oil supplies, things could go awful.

So don't think you're invincible. That's how you'll lose.

[edit on 6-2-2005 by Selena]

[edit on 6-2-2005 by Selena]

the UK is part of Europe! get over yourselves!

If it was the U.S. against the world, the world would win,
if it was the U.S. against the EU the EU would win but just by the skin of their teeth,
I fit was the US against East asia (China, Japan Korea[s]), East asia would win,
If it was the US against russia, neither would win.
If it was the US against great Britain, I really dont know which would win.

One of the variables that could change these outcomes or strengthen them in some cases is the development of new technology.

Originally posted by iori_komei
If it was the U.S. against the world, the world would win,
if it was the U.S. against the EU the EU would win but just by the skin of their teeth,
I fit was the US against East asia (China, Japan Korea[s]), East asia would win,
If it was the US against russia, neither would win.
If it was the US against great Britain, I really dont know which would win.

One of the variables that could change these outcomes or strengthen them in some cases is the development of new technology.

Are you trying to imply that EU and Britain are comparable in military might??!!

And except for the USA vs. the world matchup I don't quite agree with all the other results you've predicted..

Originally posted by Starwars51

Originally posted by paperplane_uk


On D-Day the western allies landed 8 divisions onto the beaches of Normany. The Russians had 128 divisions in the field. The US didn't defeat Germany the Russians did!

And the Russians would have likely lost all 128 divisions if the US and UK were not bombing Germany each and every single day.

Too right. Not to mention the 400 000 Studebaker trucks the US supplied allowing the Soviet Army to become somewhat mobile. Without these trucks the Soviets would not have been able to sustain any offensive for very long allowing the Germans to regroup and do what they do best counter attack.
This is just one example of the aid the US supplied through lend lease. Do a search on Google for lend lease aid and you'll see just how much material was supplied to the Soviets. Without which they would have been defeated.

Originally posted by rogue1
the 400 000 Studebaker trucks the US supplied allowing the Soviet Army to become somewhat mobile. Without these trucks the Soviets would not have been able to sustain any offensive for very long allowing the Germans to regroup and do what they do best counter attack.

Without which they would have been defeated.

- Naa, totally disagree.

Germany could never have defeated Russia. It was too big, their industry already waaaaay out of the German reach and the German forces were waaaaay too small - and the idea that they were totally mechanised themselves is a myth too.

Without the lend-lease aid the war would have dragged on longer, that is all.
Russia stopped the Germans by themselves, the Germans shattered their own forces in attempting the impossible themselves and there were simply no reserves for the Germans to call upon whilst Russia had reserves coming out of their rear areas like there was no tomorrow.

The conclusion is exactly the same. Germany lost and would have lost regardless.

(and no amount of their air or ground tech that was on the drawing boards until 1945 would have made a blind bit of difference to that either)

Oh and by the way Britain, the UK, was the European power that successfully resisted the German advance and then took the war to them with the most ruinous massed heavy bombing raids every night

[edit on 6-2-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Simple, we would unleash Mike Ditka on you.

Originally posted by necro99
France eeh? FRANCE HAS THE BEST ARMY IN EUROPE!

Best at what, cowardess or surendering

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Oh and by the way Britain, the UK, was the European power that successfully resisted the German advance and then took the war to them with the most ruinous massed heavy bombing raids every night

[edit on 6-2-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Did you not read the post? I said that Russia would have lost all 128 divisions (perhaps an overstatement, but they would have suffered much heaver losses) had the US and UK were not bombing Germany. The US bombed during the day, the UK at night. Both had a signifigant impact (although the US fielded more planes). This bombing undoubtedly caused many of the supply problems that the Germans faced in Russia.

Given that Germany's goal was to conquer each of these countries - it never could have suceeded. It could certainly not have occupied Russia, the UK would have been a horrific fight and would eventually free itself, and the US obviously was not at risk (due to it's distance and resources). However each party helped the other and reduced the length of the war.

All of this talk about one country or another winning the war, or Germany being able to win the war against any of the allies is proposterous.

And, y'know, not really the main topic of the thread anyway. What happened happened, and there's no use going into the whole 'we saved your ass' 'no, we saved YOUR ass' 'stupid commie' 'stupid capitalist pig' argument.



And the French are cowards? Stereotype. What happened to that deny ignorance thing?

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by iori_komei
If it was the U.S. against the world, the world would win,
if it was the U.S. against the EU the EU would win but just by the skin of their teeth,
I fit was the US against East asia (China, Japan Korea[s]), East asia would win,
If it was the US against russia, neither would win.
If it was the US against great Britain, I really dont know which would win.

One of the variables that could change these outcomes or strengthen them in some cases is the development of new technology.

Are you trying to imply that EU and Britain are comparable in military might??!!

And except for the USA vs. the world matchup I don't quite agree with all the other results you've predicted..

No, I think the EU is stronger than Britain.
I just dont know the statistics for Britains military and weapons, so I'm not sure if it would win or not.

I agree with you on the self-destruction part. If the US falls, it will be from within....as most of the large empires have fallen.

How exactlly does the USA resemble an empire. This statement is asnine. You know what I have learned especialy from mainland euro's is that you people are insanely jealous of this country. The real fact is this nation is/was built by people you either have oppressed or deemed below you. In WWI German Officers could not understand how Americans from all different nationalities could opperate like they did. Italians and Irish fighting side by side while back in America they would have never been seen together. You hate that we work and offer anyone a chance to go as far as they can. Bottom line is when you hate us you hate your selfs because we are you. What a bunch of dopes you euro's are. By the way enjoy the last 60 years of peace paid for by dunb Americans. The only reason europe hasn't had WWIII yet is due to 100000+ Americans keeping you from killing one another. It has been far cheaper for us to spend the money rather then loose another 300000+ young men fighting to save you jackass's. Euro's love to accuse us of crimes against humanity. I guess it sucks that your last attempt in Bosnia was thwarted by us. Just remeber this the day the Americans leave europe is the day the EU comes apart and WWIII starts. Next time we should just let you kill one another off. It will save us trillions.