USA vs. the World

With all due respect, arguing over possible scenarios from WW2 really doesn't have anything to do with our current situation. What do you guys think about the new alliances forming against the US as we speak?

What do you guys think about the new alliances forming against the US as we speak?

I know I'm porobably being naive, but what alliances?

Originally posted by Ruled By Secrecy

What do you guys think about the new alliances forming against the US as we speak?

I know I'm porobably being naive, but what alliances?

Various alliances are forming, or moving towards closer ties, I should say. China and Russia's militaries have been doing joint training exercises, for example. Venezuela has been working with nations (like Cuba) trading oil and doctors, giving OPEC ideas. Those are just a few examples.

The European Union is on the ascent, too. In the not-so-distant future, when the Euro replaces the dollar as the world's reserve currency (petrodollars), the EU will be in a much more powerful position. If our economy collapsed (which it would if OPEC switched), the USA would become subservient to what I think the prophecies in the bible refer to as the revived Roman Empire. I know a lot of you will scoff at that - but that's just my belief.

China is also on the ascent. People always discount the importance of that and of their potential as a rival power. I've been saying for years we better get ready for that. All one needs to do is look at the numbers with regard to China's exploding oil demand and industry. They are second only to the USA and will only consume more and more in the future. We will soon find ourselves at odds with them over reserves. If the dollar tanks, we're screwed. You cannot fight wars without oil. And you cannot buy oil without DENERO.

We are closer to an economic catastrophe than most realize. Once it crashes, life as we know it will never be the same.

I've always maintained one of the biggest reasons for invading and occupying Iraq was to literally keep our boot on the neck of OPEC - from keeping them from changing their reserve currency to the Euro. Of course the media doesn't discuss that. It's too complex for Peter Jennings to explain to the sheep in 30 seconds.

I think you are a bit over-obsessed on this subject than you yourself realize as well. It isn't all that simple.

[edit on 29-3-2005 by Broadsword20068]

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
I think you are a bit over-obsessed on this subject than you yourself realize as well. It isn't all that simple.

Obsessed? Its my job to consider these things.

Err guys - please don't make me laugh - I've got a very weak heart!

The UK's economy is the strongest economy in the world. Just look at your own stats and stock exchanges. We Brits own more of your defence contractors than your citizens do - US DOD notwithstanding - and we are still expanding! Hot tip for 'insider' trading - watch BAe inside the U.S!

Here is my personal view:

Oil is running out in Saudi and the homeland, so Bush Jnr decides to capture the world's second biggest oilfield with reserves estimated to last for a long, long time. At the same time, Bush Jnr decides to topple a sovereign government but this time, he decides to go it alone, without UN approval - apart from some very gullable allies.

Whilst all this is going on, Bush Jnr decides to rattle a few more cages (Iran - who he suspects of having weapon grade uranium, N Korea - who has nuclear weapons, Syria who he thinks is just a rag tag state like Iraq and now he sends Rice to China - just to stir up the Far East. (Bit like sending coal to Newcastle!)

What a thoroughly pleasant guy Bush Jnr is and what a superbly skilled diplomat he's turned out to be.

Well I've got a couple of things to say to you, our cousins across the big pond:

1. The rest of the world does not want to be 'made' in your own image. Whatever faults we may (or may not have) we'd like the chance to correct them ourselves.

2. The rest of the world - for all it's faults, does not want to told what to do by somebody who's out for all it can get and sod the consequences.

3. We - the rest of the world - would feel safer if you (Americans) would stop poking your noses into things that did not concern you.

4. We Brits would love it if you yanks played fair with terrorists. For example some of you fund the IRA but where your foreign policy dictates, other freedom fighters are terrorists? Get real!

5. When you invade a country - try to tell the truth. Never, ever, try to bluff a bluffer. If you tell lies, remember them 'cause some day, they'll leap up and bite you in the bottom. WMD - what a laugh?

6. When you destroy a sovereign country, play fair. Try to get the locals to rebuild or dish a few contracts out to your allies - you know. The ones who helped you achieve your aim. Better yet, have a sensible strategy in place for running the country after the war.

7. Stop arming despots and tinpot dictators around the world and please above all. stop your whingeing and moaning when your former friends turn against you!

In conclusion, I am English and proud of it! I come from Great Britain and am proud of it. We Brits used to own most of the known world. But that was in the days of gunboat diplomacy when our Navy turned up on board a slow steam and paddle powered armed tug, showed the Flag and put down rebellions without a shot being fired.

You yanks have the same power but, being a young and inexperienced country, you are trying to throw your weight around without weighing up the consequences.

First of all the U.S. economy is growing at 4% annually that is more than the French, Germans, Italians, and I think its the same as the British. The U.S. economy will collapse, yeah right. And these "alliances" are nothing more than trade partnerships.

Hmm US vs. the world. If it's conventional warfare, US will lose because outnumbered way too much plus European weaponry isn't too far behind the US in technology.

If it's nuclear, then everybody loses. The world has enough nukes to blow up the whole US and the US has enough nukes to blow up the whole world. Same with Russia.

Ireland huh? Maybe only the North would fall in with the EU. The southern resistance still resists Britain and the EU, although they will probably fall into it due simply to the odds. However, they still remain (for the most part) pro-U.S.

-wD

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Ireland huh? Maybe only the North would fall in with the EU. The southern resistance still resists Britain and the EU, although they will probably fall into it due simply to the odds. However, they still remain (for the most part) pro-U.S.

-wD

...Yeah we actually said "hey you want a new country go ahead have it" I dont see them "resisting" us in any way...

Anti-EU?
So if thats so why are they part of it....?
They wont fall, ireland is a strong country, despite being small they are good.
Also how are they "pro-US"? Because they didnt accuse you of being liars after GW2?

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by devilwasp
just cause usa hepled fund it doesnt mean that thier the world power frankly they are just the largest consumer nothing more nothing less
oh and also america didnt fund it it was an allied force!

umm ok..but our gdp 10 trillion per year, we earn 2 trillion in revenues per year, we are the biggest importer and exporter of everything, our air force is the largest most advanced force on the planet, our army is the 2nd largest with training as good as any if not the best, our navy again is the largest on earth with the best ships there are and we have bases and troops in over 100 countries and most technology has come from us, that all doesnt just happen by luck or for no reason, it happens because the US is a world power.

money = power and advancement in the world, the US has the most so its only logical....

(numbers of 2003)
World (USA included):
36,356 billion dollar

European Union GDP combined:
12,575 Billion Dollar (now of course a bit more, as it has 10 more members)

United States GDP:
10,882 Billion Dollar

the biggest Exporteuer is germany, not the USA, but you are right with highest Imports, germany also has the highest export excess, while the usa has the highest import excess.

the know how of EU and USA is not really different, the difference is, that the EU combined has just 60% of US military spendings

"most technology has come from us" Like nuclear technology, the car, the TV, the rocket, the fire.... (american megalomanism....)

Britain did far more than anyone else to win the war... for it's size. The US made it sell all of it's overseas assets and after the war it was worse off than even the defeated nations like Japan and Germany because of this.

cant beleave that, yeah, USA had two nukes on its soil, and towns that were bombed down by over 90% (like my home town Würzburg)

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Ireland huh? Maybe only the North would fall in with the EU. The southern resistance still resists Britain and the EU, although they will probably fall into it due simply to the odds. However, they still remain (for the most part) pro-U.S.

-wD

Actually the south of Ireland is a big supporter of the EU and also the UK... I have no idea where you Americans get the idea that there is bad blood between British and Irish.

Actually the Irish use the Euro currency an are probably far more likely to go for anything European than the UK countries (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) at the moment.

Originally posted by fritz
Err guys - please don't make me laugh - I've got a very weak heart!

The UK's economy is the strongest economy in the world. Just look at your own stats and stock exchanges. We Brits own more of your defence contractors than your citizens do - US DOD notwithstanding - and we are still expanding! Hot tip for 'insider' trading - watch BAe inside the U.S!

Here is my personal view:

Oil is running out in Saudi and the homeland, so Bush Jnr decides to capture the world's second biggest oilfield with reserves estimated to last for a long, long time. At the same time, Bush Jnr decides to topple a sovereign government but this time, he decides to go it alone, without UN approval - apart from some very gullable allies.

Whilst all this is going on, Bush Jnr decides to rattle a few more cages (Iran - who he suspects of having weapon grade uranium, N Korea - who has nuclear weapons, Syria who he thinks is just a rag tag state like Iraq and now he sends Rice to China - just to stir up the Far East. (Bit like sending coal to Newcastle!)

What a thoroughly pleasant guy Bush Jnr is and what a superbly skilled diplomat he's turned out to be.

Well I've got a couple of things to say to you, our cousins across the big pond:

1. The rest of the world does not want to be 'made' in your own image. Whatever faults we may (or may not have) we'd like the chance to correct them ourselves.

2. The rest of the world - for all it's faults, does not want to told what to do by somebody who's out for all it can get and sod the consequences.

3. We - the rest of the world - would feel safer if you (Americans) would stop poking your noses into things that did not concern you.

4. We Brits would love it if you yanks played fair with terrorists. For example some of you fund the IRA but where your foreign policy dictates, other freedom fighters are terrorists? Get real!

5. When you invade a country - try to tell the truth. Never, ever, try to bluff a bluffer. If you tell lies, remember them 'cause some day, they'll leap up and bite you in the bottom. WMD - what a laugh?

6. When you destroy a sovereign country, play fair. Try to get the locals to rebuild or dish a few contracts out to your allies - you know. The ones who helped you achieve your aim. Better yet, have a sensible strategy in place for running the country after the war.

7. Stop arming despots and tinpot dictators around the world and please above all. stop your whingeing and moaning when your former friends turn against you!

In conclusion, I am English and proud of it! I come from Great Britain and am proud of it. We Brits used to own most of the known world. But that was in the days of gunboat diplomacy when our Navy turned up on board a slow steam and paddle powered armed tug, showed the Flag and put down rebellions without a shot being fired.

You yanks have the same power but, being a young and inexperienced country, you are trying to throw your weight around without weighing up the consequences.

Seriously man, we Americans do not try to "make the world in our own image." The world just copies us. It's what happens when a nation has so much cultural influence that their culture starts to be picked up by other nations.

And what the he** are you talking about, "...without a shot being fired"!?! One of Britain's main policies for some of the rebellions was to go in and simply open fire. Rebellion ended, case closed, everyone can go home. Even with Afghanistan, the Brits would go in and shoot to put down rebellions.

As for WMD, the entire U.N. and the U.S. all went by the same information. It was the U.N. (British included) who told Saddam to disarm. The ONLY reason France and Germany didn't want the U.S. to topple Saddam was because they'd lose a crapload of money, which they did.

And America may be young and inexperienced, but America has been more successful militarily, economically, culturally, and politically then all of Europe combined (which I am sure is why Europe hates us).

Europe taught America two things: one, don't fight wars with each other, unite (as in America's early days, there was talk of having a bunch of independent states, united, like an American E.U.). And two, DON'T DO THINGS THE EUROPEAN WAY. Don't conquer other nations and tax them, don't be a war mongerer for the sake of pure power, etc... Europe hates America because America accomplished so quickly what took them so long. And America did it without literally conquering innocent peoples the world over.

And to all you "America's economy will fall," types, that will not happen, because if you topple the American economy, you topple the world economy. In the 1930s, when the American economy went into the depression, the entire world went into depression. What do you think would happen NOWADAYS if that happened? It was because of world-wide depression that communism and fascism gained favor in Europe and Asia at those times.

If the American economy collapsed these days, the entire world would be in probably the worst economic depression in history. And that goes vice-versa to some extent as well. When Japan's economy went into a recession, it had effects here too.

It is a global economy these days. It's like a body. You can have one leg stronger than the other, one arm stronger than the other, but you put a bullet hole in any body part and the whole body feels repercussions.

And finally, what's with you Brits disliking America anyhow? We are allies. Britain is the motherland of the U.S. The U.S. may be made up of people from all different cultural and ethnic backgrounds these days, but the original 13 colonies that broke away were British. And America has always pretty much stuck by Britain. Even if both countries disagree severely, both are there in times of need for each other, as far as history has showed.

For example, if Prime Minister Tony Blaire hadn't been in power during the Iraq War, considering everyone in the British gov't seemed severely opposed to the war, Britain probably would not have supported America in that endeavor. If America was being attacked and needed help from whoever though (like invasion-attacked), I am sure the Brits would send aid. Now the French on the other hand, and the Germans........me thinks me would worry. And vice-versa.

That has always been my view of it.

And also, stop with calling us "Yanks." We don't use any derogatory terms to the Brits.

Never happen first of all, 12 active carriers with battle groups to each carrier and subs, more then likely 6 battle groups on each side of US "some would have to be repostiond from other missions around the globe" protecting any oncoming enemy naval fleets for EU or china or Russia, that would pretty much put a stop to any D-day type landing and any forces that did get onto US soil would blown to bits, then the US isnt stupid to let China build a force in Mexico they would do bomb raids and be blowing up any chinese landing in mexico, and china doesnt have the means to transport wave after wave of humans to do an invasion, I think i heard a report that said that right now there are like 1 mill troops still in the US.

And it would take alot of time to prepare this, the US would catch on and put a stop to any signifanct trasports, it would take everything china Russia and EU got to get onto US soil and if they actually survived to make onto US soil then they face US troops already in the US and alot of Pissed off americans with Guns, Almost all americans own guns and we use em,

Then once all opposing forces are obliterated trying to get onto US soil then all those troops and Bombers and Fighters that are stationed overseas start rasing hell on enemy bases, and then Russia and China and EU are like F^%K that was stupid lets go home and then everyone is happy or China gets in a pissy mood cause they cant get onto our land and they launch nuke then we launch one back and then then isreal nukes Germany and then NK nukes japan then UK nukes Korea then Russia Nukes Great Britain and then pretty soon were all dead or dying from radiation, which wont happen cuz the bible says God will not let man Bring himself to his own destruction so Nuclear war is Not gonna happen and it would be very Foolish for anyone to try and invade US

Troops are stationed through the world Cuz it is best not to have all your strength in one spot so therefore US can respond quicker to any immediate threat.

In the same sense i do not think the US could conaquer the world, but you wanna see US get pissed off Try and invade this country.

[edit on 29-3-2005 by zakattack]

Listen in WWII the U.S. people understood that they ether had to join the military and work in factories or this country would looses. In WWII we had 16 million men in our military and back then our population was less than lf of what it is today. If the U.S. was in another win or die situation things will get interesting.

I have no idea where you Americans get the idea that there is bad blood between British and Irish.

More of the propaganda machine, eh? I have been to South Ireland, in fact, I have family members IN the IRA. I have family members that have DIED fighting the British, and have family members that keep me constantly informed about the situation in Ireland.

Ireland in general (about 95%) is Catholic, and pro-free Ireland. The other 5%, the Protestants, want British control. Although there is a cease-fire for the time-being, the situation is still fragile.

And yes, I have been to Ireland to see this for myself.

-wD

^^ Agreed. In WW2 the U.S. military shot up due to necessity, just as it would in any future conflict. Do not forget that if necessary, the U.S. has about 220 of the 290 million citizens at her disposal for the military.

So, don't count out the U.S. just because of overwhelming odds. Let's look at the Nazi regime, they were militarily stronger, but we defeated them, eh?

Look at the British - the most powerful nation in the world. Who beat 'em? The U.S. - TWICE.

The American fighting spirit is a great tool in war. =]

-wD

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
More of the propaganda machine, eh? I have been to South Ireland, in fact, I have family members IN the IRA. I have family members that have DIED fighting the British, and have family members that keep me constantly informed about the situation in Ireland.

If you have family members and you suport what they do then you must be a terrorist....isnt that what the US is against...."your ethier with us or with the terrorists".....
The IRA is just a political party..the PIRA is a terror group..

Ireland in general (about 95%) is Catholic, and pro-free Ireland. The other 5%, the Protestants, want British control. Although there is a cease-fire for the time-being, the situation is still fragile.

Yeah thier pro free ireland....does that mean they are pro america?
No...

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
^^ Agreed. In WW2 the U.S. military shot up due to necessity, just as it would in any future conflict. Do not forget that if necessary, the U.S. has about 220 of the 290 million citizens at her disposal for the military.

So, don't count out the U.S. just because of overwhelming odds. Let's look at the Nazi regime, they were militarily stronger, but we defeated them, eh?

No, technologically stronger they were much more militarily weaker thanks to the russians also this "we" included most of the common wealth and several other nations...

Look at the British - the most powerful nation in the world. Who beat 'em? The U.S. - TWICE.

Huh twice?
Did we have a rerun after the war of independance?

The American fighting spirit is a great tool in war.

Same with every fighting spirit of EVERY country on the planet....


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Look at the British - the most powerful nation in the world. Who beat 'em? The U.S. - TWICE.

didnt you have help from the french?

And also, stop with calling us "Yanks." We don't use any derogatory terms to the Brits.

It's not derogatory, sorry if you see it that way