Saudi Court Approves Pedophilia

reply to post by greeneyedleo

topics.law.cornell.edu...

California and Mississippi do not have a minimum age for marriage with parental consent.

Hundreds of years ago, marrying at ten or twelve was very normal. Just how even a few decades ago, marrying at eighteen or twenty was very normal, and in some places it still is.

marriage.about.com...

With consent, many countries allow the same.

www.childinfo.org...

Some more information on common child marriage practices.

womenofhistory.blogspot.com...

Some historical information about early teen marriages.

I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying it happens. And hundreds of years ago, it happened a lot more. In many places where traditional practices are still being done, that's how it is. That's how it's been.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]

[edit on 4/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by Rob37n
This is sick, the "husband" such as he is should be made to stand in front of a small guillotine, and then the women of the world could hold a lottery for the right to pull the lever. This is one monstrous sick f***** who deserves to have his testicles chopped off and displayed as a warning to others with such sick ideas.

To me that's just as sick as pedophilia sorry.

child molestation is horrible but god people act like it's worse than genocide! it's not an excuse to be bloodthirsty and cruel.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donnie Darko]

I don't approve of child brides, even in western nations.

Though, in this case the girl will live with her mother until she's 18 and only then may she have carnal relations with her husband.

Also, Saudi Arabia is thinking of instituting a minimum age of 14 for girls to marry.

www.saudigazette.com.sa...

That said, I'm also going to repeat what I've said about this subject in another thread from last year:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Marriage has, historically/traditionally speaking, been about money, land, joining families, producing heirs, children to work the land and whatnot. It's a business transaction. Only in relatively recent times has marriage been about affairs of the heart. While western culture has been, for the most part, progressive, there are still a great many cultures that remain true to ancient, conservative values.

It's my one complaint against Islam. I believe that most women suffer under archaic practices. While there are many people who practice less conservative flavors of Islam, Wahabism isn't such a thing.

So the real issue here is the lack of rights for women, for both the girl and her mother.

While there are many arguments to be made against child marriage, it's common around the world. Nearly 80% of girls are married before they are age 18.

There's a lot here about marriage customs, including the ages of brides. Most cultures want the bride to be of the age of puberty, but often marriages take place by the age of ten, twelve or so.

The Hindu laws of Manu claim that a husband must be 3 times the age of the bride and that most girls must be married by age ten.

books.google.com...

The greeks thought men should marry around 25-30 years of age, but that their brides should be mid teens.

The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24.

Yemen Jewish brides were "...usually married at age 10–12"

Anyways, it's not that the culture is 'sick' as someone said. Child brides have been common in ALL CULTURES and still are in many.

The difference is, 'western/european' culture has left these social norms behind.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying it happens. And hundreds of years ago, it happened a lot more. In many places where traditional practices are still being done, that's how it is. That's how it's been.

But just because it happened in our past that should never be justification of allowing it to happen in our present and future. There is so much in our history that was allowed back then -- and we devloped as humans and learned those things were not good. Look at how the Romans lived way back then -- Im sure most of their culutre and ways would never go over anywhere today. Murder as revenge was justified and seems to be justified still in some cultures (honor killings). So where is the line drawn then? Do we allow ALL practices of all cultures regardless of what it may be?

And really, do people just not care about the children? (not you, just those who are not outraged at this practice).

Just saying that the past is not always a good representation of what our present and future should be or was is acceptable.

And just because some cultures OK it, does not make it acceptable.

All just my opinion of course And I think I met the character count...woohoo

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Yeah, pretty much. Especially if it's generally okay in one culture, it doesn't make it okay to think those things just because you're used to something different. Yes, right here we know it's wrong. But we can't just go to another culture and say "HEY that's DISGUSTING don't marry her she's EIGHT." Because they'll say "So? We've been doing this for thousands of years."

And then we look dumb.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Well right but what I just posted, I mean, it's like if we went to some places in the world and said "You can't eat that, you'll get a food borne illness, you can't drink that water, you'll get a disease. You can't have sex without a condom because there's an HIV epidemic going on. You can't marry her because she's eight years old and doesn't have a say and doesn't understand and it's unhealthy and wrong."

They'll basically be like "This is how it's always been done and this is how we do it and who are you to tell us to live otherwise?"

[edit on 4/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Yeah, pretty much. Especially if it's generally okay in one culture, it doesn't make it okay to think those things just because you're used to something different. Yes, right here we know it's wrong. But we can't just go to another culture and say "HEY that's DISGUSTING don't marry her she's EIGHT." Because they'll say "So? We've been doing this for thousands of years."

And then we look dumb.

I think it's awful and don't approve of it at all, but it upsets me when people use "The Children" as an excuse to bring back torture.

Originally posted by Byrd
Using a news story to do a "shock cultural value" and whip up anger against Muslims/Islam without mentioning those other societies isn't fair.

I appreciate your ALL SEEING on this issue. Excellent point(s), in part why i was drawn to this article and O'Reilly's choice in having Brigitte Gabriel (wants us to attack Iran btw) on his show. A key purpose to the pro-israel pro-military media is to feed a smear campaign on muslim/islamic nations. What i find particularly interesting is how they go about framing the whole topic. Very one-sided, narrow and often exaggerated... common character assassination tactic, but no matter how refined/intelligent they come across, i can't help but think of a caveman/woman saying in a very deliberate slow paced tarzan way;

"Christains/America/Jews/Israel Gooooood... Arabs/Middle-East Baaaaaad"

(except of course all countries we are beholden to or beholden to us)

[edit on 12-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by ravenshadow13

With consent, many countries allow the same.

www.childinfo.org...

Well even one of your links says that it is a violation of human rights.

End harmful traditional or customary practices, such as early and forced marriage (...), which violate the rights of children and women

www.childinfo.org...
In actuality, child marriage is a violation of human rights

At least a well recognized organization is claiming this is wrong. Maybe there is hope for these poor little girls

reply to post by Donnie Darko


I think it's an eye-for-an-eye sort of feeling that people have about that. And rape, too. I don't really have a say in the matter of punishment, and I don't really have a say in the death penalty either except that it's expensive to keep people in jail and expensive and risky to execute them. But I think that people who molest children are sometimes treated worse than people who murder children.

But again I don't think that we could just go to Saudi Arabia and throw this guy in jail. *shrug*

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

I think it's an eye-for-an-eye sort of feeling that people have about that. And rape, too. I don't really have a say in the matter of punishment, and I don't really have a say in the death penalty either except that it's expensive to keep people in jail and expensive and risky to execute them. But I think that people who molest children are sometimes treated worse than people who murder children.

But again I don't think that we could just go to Saudi Arabia and throw this guy in jail. *shrug*

It's strange how criminals seem to hate pedophiles as much or more than law-abiding people ... i wonder why?

reply to post by greeneyedleo


It's wrong to us, yes. We know it's against human rights. But that doesn't necessarily give people a reason to stop if they believe it's okay and if it's always been okay in their culture. It's sad but that's how it is. And even if it becomes illegal, it could still happen, and probably in a worse black-market sort of way.

I mean, what next? No more arranged marriages because they are against human rights? I'm fairly sure that in many countries that wouldn't go over very well.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Maybe because pedophiles don't usually get really harsh punishment even though maybe they should? Other criminals, like those who commit tax fraud or whatever, end up in jail for life but pedophiles just have to be put on a public registry with their address and sometimes are on probation and stuff? Or simply because society is very sympathetic and protective of children.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


... and some of those criminals may be in jail for killing children... how ironic is that: condemning sex with underage children to the point where they take action and beat, or sometimes kill the sex offender, but killing underage children is okay? These are the same people operating under the mentality that it's only illegal if you get caught.

Yet another example of hipocracy in society, even if it is the criminal society and not society as a whole.

And if the culture allows it, no one other than those in the culture have the power to change it.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
It's really not pedophilia. I mean, it is, but if they're married it's a little strange for our culture but very normal for many others.

Bolding is my emphasis

I have to disagree with you, in my opinion there is NO grey area about this. It is pedophilia. This girl is EIGHT, she is a child. She has not hit puberty yet.

I'm sorry, but my opinion on the matter does not change. She is a child, and as a HUMAN she has the right to have her innocence preserved until she is ready. Even if her Countries laws don't reflect this...

- Carrot



[edit on 4/12/2009 by CA_Orot]

my grandmother (she was christian) married her husband when she was 11. we have no idea how old her husband was but he was over 18. this was in kentucky, about 80 years ago

Originally posted by fatdad
i wonder why all the pedophiles in the world don't goto Saudi Arabia and convert to the Muslim faith\way of living..a country where you can openly rape children or bugger baby's with the laws blessing... don't the mothers of these children ever say or do anything to stop this repulsive sicking behavior?..

Paedophilia and homosexual buggery is forbidden in the Islamic faith. Whatever this horrific story is about, I condemn it.

I also invite you to condemn the teachings below;

The Paedophilia Verses against 3-year old girls:

Paedophilia verses are Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40. Below, you will see specific verses from the Talmud detailing the paedophile acts against the 3-year old slave girls under the direct command of Moses.

While Christians do not regard the Old Testament the stories that exist in the Talmud in verses Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40 details the active justification of paedophilia.

More recently the late Rabbi Joseph regaled his congregation with biblical stories, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse....."

While these excesses in any religion is unacceptable today, those who engage in a literal expression of faith as practised thousands of years ago are missing the central message of being faithful and the path to the truth.

There are too many literalists in the Jewish and Muslim religion, however, one side has a habit of propagandising oddities that emerge out of Saudi while accusing anyone of anti-Semitism for pointing at the extraordinary levels of paedophilia in their closed communities in the US.

Originally posted by dooper
Of course the Saudi court system approved pedophilia. They already have a country full of pedophiles, and it's been going on in Saudi Arabia for centuries.

Their Muslim prophet was a pedophile. And encouraged pedoplilia. And rape. And looting. And everything else counter to Judeo/Christian teaching one wishes to compare.

It's hard to condemn something your prophet taught and practiced.

The pervert.

That is what sucks so much. This is nothing new by any stretch of the imagination.

This is the kind of screwed up stuff that can happen when your law is based on religion and not realistic morals etc... But that is another story.

Every now and then I hear similar stories on the news. Children essentially being forced to marry grown adults to settle debts, or what have you.

I am trying to think of culture. Obviously here in the west, something like this is sick, disgusting and just plain wrong. If some one tried to essentially sell their child they get in BIG trouble.

Over there, it seems to be almost normal and perfectly acceptable. Women have essentially no rights over there so often times you hear stories of women and girls being traded like a piece of money to settle debts.

I find it disheartening and disgusting that this happens in this day and age, but it does.

Everyday life over there is just so completley different than it is over here. It is a highly religious place, and they hold onto their religious ideals as if it were a priceless diamond. The problem with that is, what was acceptable as law 2000 plus years ago, is not neccasarily appropriate for society as a whole, the way it is today.

I dont know, I have alot of friends who are muslim/islam, and I know they would not support such a thing, but then again, their families have been here for generatiosn and by all means they are Americans. Perhaps it really is just a cultural difference.

That is a problem I take with religion in general. It is the year 2009. How in the world does it make sense to live by a set of rules that was written for a society, that was around 2000 years ago and lived a completley different life style?

I dont know, I don't mean to ramble, or make this into a religon debate, I am just trying to understand what possible rationale they could be using to justify such a disturbing thing.

After all that I have written, I must say, I still don't get it, and I am not sure that I wan't to either.

reply to post by masonwatcher


i think assuming a virgin is going to be a 3 year old child is stretching it. when i married at the age of 20, i was a virgin still. i'm not seeing what you're saying, in other words. i read those passages in numbers, and all they say is women who haven't slept with men, which i'm guessing means they were still unmarried "virgins."

To say the origins are cultural versus religious is an attempt to get religion off the hook. Religion is the most popular tool used to justify these crimes... how else can you rationalize/sell this twisted union? ...you need to make these irrational visceral impulses approved by no other then god "himself" (note gender).

Where one sees cultural differences, i see a difference in liberal versus literal interpretation of "holy" scripture. Who in their right mind follows every word as if it came directly from god's lips? Some pretty deranged people that's who. Mark my words, the fundamentalist fanatics will be the ruin of us all.