You are being lied to about pirates

Originally posted by News And History


During the same time-period, many European crews have invaded Somalia by pushing through their territory with huge ships and looting Somalia’s seas of "their greatest resource": seafood.

Reportedly, more than $300 million worth of lobster, shrimp, tuna, and other sea life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia’s unprotected seas.

www.SFBayView.com

The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: “If nothing is done, there soon won’t be much fish left in our coastal waters.”

This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia - and it’s not hard to see why.

In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.” William Scott would understand those words.

www.sfbayview.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Have you been arrested yet? I've heard that they were going to round up all their supporters.

Talk about your apples and oranges!

The Somali pirates are not displaced farmers and fishermen. They are pirates who have chosen to take what is not theirs at the point of a gun. I have no simpathy for them.

The enironmental issues off of Somalias coasts are tragic and if the Somalis could get their act together and establish a stable government, then they could take legitimate steps to end the dumping and restore their coastlines.

The Somalis had their chance back in the early 90's to end the reign of the warlords. All they had to do was support the UN action that tried to stabilize the country. Instead they sided with the warlords. Too bad but actions have consequences. I doubt that America or the UN are going to take any steps to change Somalia within the next 20 years or so.

Originally posted by lunarminer

The Somali pirates are not displaced farmers and fishermen. They are pirates who have chosen to take what is not theirs at the point of a gun. I have no simpathy for them.

Im still wating on all the news articles over the years includeing before 1991 that has them being pirates ... Ohh wait researching is not allowed when dealing with TV

reply to post by Bldrvgr


Give me a break! Somalia was a Soviet benefactor state and when the USSR collapsed they lost their financing. Shortly after that Somalia deteriorated into a failed state. It's all history, and can be found in countless articles on the internet.

reply to post by Bldrvgr


By the way, I am sure you are dying to hear my definition of a pirate.

A pirate is anyone who seizes a ship on the high seas and either steals the ship and its cargo or holds it for ransom. That is the very same definition that has been recognized by international law for over 300 years.

The only exceptions are for warships flying the flag of a sovereign nation or a ships captain holding a letter of Marque. I saw the video and the pirates were not in a naval vessel nor were they flying the Somali colors. Are you suggesting that they hold letters of Marque?

Originally posted by lunarminer
A pirate is anyone who seizes a ship on the high seas and either steals the ship and its cargo or holds it for ransom. That is the very same definition that has been recognized by international law for over 300 years.

Your referencing this definition?

According to the definition found in the Convention on the High Seas and UNCLOS, “piracy” consists of (1) illegal acts committed on the high seas (2) for private ends (3) by the crew or passengers of one ship against the crew, passengers, or property onboard another ship.

"Casting A Wider Net: Addressing the Maritime Piracy Problem in Southeast Asia"

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Seekerof]

I still have not seen any evidence presented by the defenders of the Somali pirates to show us what is being done with the substantial amount of money they have already made in ransom.

If one is to justify the conduct of the pirates based on the hardships their people have endured then it SHOULD follow that the proceeds made from their activities would go to help the very people they are supposed to be supporting.

Wouldn't that make sense?

So, why is it that any article I've read about this mentions that the pirates are building huge complexes for themselves, purchasing weaponry and patronizing local gambling operations rather than supplying their people with food, medicine and other humanitarian concerns.

Unfortunately those of us in the US or in Europe don't have a concept of what money means. We don't have an understanding of how many poverty stricken Somalians could be fed and be given medical treatment with the Millions of dollars the pirates have received in ransom.

So how come none of it is helping them? How come the pirates are not leading the charge of saving Somalia with their newfound wealth?

The answer, very simply, is that these people are criminals who are interested solely in hijacking unarmed vessels with valuable cargo and use the gains for their own personal goals, which primarily revolve around becoming important warlords.

To defend them as people fighting for their fellow citizens would be a wonderful argument if they actually did something to support that argument. But they have not, and they will not.

The portrayal of these cowardly thugs as some sort of heroes is absolutely ridiculous.

Does Somalia need help? Oh yeah they do. Have they been wronged in the past? Most would say yes. Are these cowards their saviors?

Not even close.

reply to post by Seekerof


Oh well, now you got me!

Your definition is totally different than mine!

It may surprise you to learn that there were pirates centuries before the UN.

For those who would like a web source, here is a more contemporary definition of piracy. I found this on....where else....Wikipedia.

Piracy is a war-like act committed by a nonstate actor, especially robbery or criminal violence committed at sea, on a river, or sometimes on shore, either from a vessel flying no national flag, or one flying a national flag but without authorization from a national authority.

Wow! That's almost exactly the same definition that I gave, except that I excluded acts commited on shore.

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by Bldrvgr

 

Give me a break! Somalia was a Soviet benefactor state and when the USSR collapsed they lost their financing. Shortly after that Somalia deteriorated into a failed state. It's all history, and can be found in countless articles on the internet.

ahh you mean these :

www.benadir-watch.com...

www1.american.edu...

english.aljazeera.net... ml

man the money would go towards cleaning up the waste .... gee

www.somalitalk.com...

this is getting tireing...

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
I want to believe there's a "Robin Hood" aspect of the piracy, and I lean toward believing that's the case (at least overall). After the tsunami, when the toxic barrells supposedly were pushed on shore, did anyone think to save at least one as evidence? And is there any corroberation about the foreign fishing boats taking over? And the obvious (again): Who's going to fish in higher-than-average toxicity of water?

Hey you're right! ... I wonder why those starving Somalians didn't think of hauling one of those toxic barrels all the way back to the village where the people are. >,<

Originally posted by Bldrvgr

Originally posted by lunarminer

The Somali pirates are not displaced farmers and fishermen. They are pirates who have chosen to take what is not theirs at the point of a gun. I have no simpathy for them.

Im still wating on all the news articles over the years includeing before 1991 that has them being pirates ... Ohh wait researching is not allowed when dealing with TV

EH!?!?! Huge assumption there that pirates have been operating in that area since before 1991, just to make your point, sorry only a fool would fall for that one. There probably has been the odd one , like there is anywhere in the world, but not to the level at present.

I think you'll find that the problem is the politics of Somalia which has exacerbated an increase in anarchy. In order to be a pirate you have to land at some point to spend your money. Right now Somalia is akin to the Carribean from a few hundred years ago!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This whole thread is ridiculous. Are all the email scams coming from this same area also in protest of fishing their waters or contaminating their waters?

Just the fact that this thread discusses these people being upset with their waters being over fished and at the same time being contaminated makes the whole idea of this thread stink.

These pirates are pirates. Not everything is a conspiracy. These thugs should all be shot. Any boat that has to travel these waters should be well armed and prepared to deal with these pirates with deadly force.

These thugs just want money. That is the same reason why we all get tons of spam emails from this same area from people saying they have millions of dollars that they need help bringing into the US. "Just give us your bank account information and we will wire it to you and you can keep 10%....blah blah blah."

I understand this is a third world area and a poor area but it gives no one there the right to hold people hostage and kill for money. Or the right to scam people via the internet.

Get a grip and a dose of reality. Next you'll be telling us that this is in protest of peanut butter laced with salmonella and black people are protesting this because peanut butter was invented by a black man. Is that ridiculous? Yes it is. Just like this thread.

Haha.. yeah dude - the starving Somalians without a government have broadband and are spamming us with spoofed emails they're sending out through an open relay server so they can transfer millions to our bank accounts. Do you even know anything about Africa? - they more than likely dont even have phone lines, I know in South Africa(which is much more developed) the phone cables actually get stolen JUST so they can sell the wire for cash. Entire grids fall off whilst the repair work is done.

You actually believe the Somalians are capable of that ? I'm not particularly for or against this theory but I do think it's funny how crafty and internet savvy you think these Africans are. Which bank exactly would you assume the funds are being transferred into for these pirates ? Assuming there's a Somalian bank let alone a Somalian Bank thats willing to happily hold these funds for the pirates to withdraw at their leisure.

O.o


- Forgot to mention, those email spoofs ASKING for money are scams for people to con you into getting money, the ones asking for your details so they can transfer cash to you are cons to get your bank details. And they say they're from Ghana, Somalia doens't even have food - do you believe they have a good ISP ???


[edit on 4/14/09 by mortalengine]

YES!!! way to go navy seals three shots and all head shots job well done. The fourth needs to be turned into chum or sent out on a raft for target practice. It's time we put some of these weapons we pay for to use.

Put it together....

Don't you remember Russian tanks and small arms being sent to Kenya on a commercial-looking ship? It was in the news a while back. Somehow some ragtag pirates snatched it.

Kenya shares a border with Somalia. Probably easy to truck some containers over the border.

Is there some interest in that area? Islam? Communism? Anti-Christian and Anti-Capatilism? Hmmm?

Our President has some Kenyan background. Do you think the Powers That Be simply make up these conspiracies a few weeks in advance? Not hardly. Try decades.

Do you think scroungy thugs just happen to stumble upon some Russian tanks and small arms? Not hardly. Try special agents looking like pirates moving on intel reports and drawing attention to the threat in the world media.

Do you think superpowers just swoop in and bomb the heck out of everybody with no explanation? Nope. Try setting up a tasty threat that needs immediate action from a Kenyan-linked President.

Who wants the US out of that area? Ha ha ha ha. I'll not say this time.....

reply to post by Djarums



They are just criminals, extortionists.
Bred in an atmosphere of corruption, civil war, hopelessness.
The pirates are a product of the environment.

The climate there is dog eat dog, there's no humanitarianism, no leadership.
They are choosing to survive the only way they know how.
If the rest of the world is using one of their main sources of food and money as a giant trash bin, why show the world any respect?
They see those ships as giant floating piggy banks.

I doubt their intentions are to clean up the place.

For what it's worth I think the pirates are doing a superb job. They've stopped arms being shipped and at the same time they're getting international attention to the issue. Good going

Originally posted by malcr

Originally posted by Bldrvgr

Originally posted by lunarminer

The Somali pirates are not displaced farmers and fishermen. They are pirates who have chosen to take what is not theirs at the point of a gun. I have no simpathy for them.

Im still wating on all the news articles over the years includeing before 1991 that has them being pirates ... Ohh wait researching is not allowed when dealing with TV

EH!?!?! Huge assumption there that pirates have been operating in that area since before 1991, just to make your point, sorry only a fool would fall for that one. There probably has been the odd one , like there is anywhere in the world, but not to the level at present.

I think you'll find that the problem is the politics of Somalia which has exacerbated an increase in anarchy. In order to be a pirate you have to land at some point to spend your money. Right now Somalia is akin to the Carribean from a few hundred years ago!

So let me guess random guy at news channel is your base of information to say this could be an assumption ? your so die hard that you are correct that you must of shook the guys hand that told the info am i right ? and def know the name in which told the information...

please stop comeing up with junk information that you cant even begin to dig up, thanks.

Originally posted by Alora
There was an independent news story about this (www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com...) and it opened my eyes. The news program didn't mention the barrels, but to talk with these people and see where they live....I start to feel sorry for the pirates, rather than the ships and crew.

Starred and flagged, friend. Great post!

so when these pirates take over a CONTAINER SHIP AND DEMAND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, this is supposed to protect their homeland of somalia??? and where is all the ransom money going, to help the millions of poor people buy food? medical supplies? build water wells? develope farms? build shelter for the poor? c'mon, these are criminal operations that hire poor young kids for a few bucks, to bankroll the lavish lifestyle of a few brutal ganglords.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by jimmyx]

Originally posted by spacedoubt
reply to post by Djarums

 

They are just criminals, extortionists.
Bred in an atmosphere of corruption, civil war, hopelessness.
The pirates are a product of the environment.

The climate there is dog eat dog, there's no humanitarianism, no leadership.
They are choosing to survive the only way they know how.
If the rest of the world is using one of their main sources of food and money as a giant trash bin, why show the world any respect?
They see those ships as giant floating piggy banks.

I doubt their intentions are to clean up the place.

I would be inclined to believe most of this, but im still finding footage and proof of it to go along saying that it actually is dog eat dog... Personally something without a goverment would mean all you would need to do is step in there to see oppression by force ...

Then again we have plenty videos of (insert random name here) saying how things are to a video tape a bunch of people working together or random areas that have no violence. the fool is the person who actually takes the words of the person talking as truth and gospel but then again 80% of the people believe in randomless news everday spouted on the TV =D .... Then you wonder why people jump when it says so.