Why do Atheists care about religion?

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

No...no it isn't. Atheism is simply what occurs when you look at life realistically.

According to Webster's an atheist is "one who believes that there is no deity".

It came to England via France at the time of the Reformation with the semantics as above.

And according to etymonline.com ---

from Gk. atheos "to deny the gods, godless," from a- "without" + theos "a god"

To be an agnostic (Gk. a- "without" + gnosis "knowledge") on the other hand means you choose not to believe in things that cannot be proven. But to call one self an agnostic these days is in a rational reality philosophic fallacy. In that the more we know, the greater the unknown seems to become, and the more we know, the more absurd reality is. To me atleast, for i am quite contrary to an agnostic, in that I see no point in trying to prove anything unless I first believe in it.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

You make the naive assertion you know all religions, when clearly you don't.
You are like the narrow-minded person who goes to a John Tesh concert
and because he sucked you say all music is bad.

That's actually relatively flawed logic, but I get the general gist of what's being said.

The way I look at it: If someone went to a John Tesh concert, but were told beforehand that this was all there was to music, and it sucked they might say that all music is bad. Conversely, one might believe blindly that this is all there is to music and refuse to listen to anything else. If there was a song (I know he's instrumental...) that said, "Listening to any other type of music is wrong!" and one blindly believed that, it still doesn't mean that (a) there is no other type of music, and (b) that there is anything wrong with the other music. Just because somebody says it/writes it down it does not necessarily mean it's true.

To remain within the analogy; Atheism is having the flexibility to look at the merits of all types of music, and to choose to listen to what makes sense personally without the constraints of prejudice. Theists are rarely afforded this luxury.

I think that those who become so entrenched in any one belief system that doesn't allow any flexibility are robbing themselves of true enlightenment. Knowledge is the real enlightenment. Denying yourself knowledge because it's outside the sphere/book that purports to be the only truth is quite sad. Projecting those prejudices onto others is even more sad (as in, "God still loves you..even though you're blasphemous." type stuff).

reply to post by Badgered1


To say "Knowledge is the real enlightenment." means you don't understand enlightenment.
You can have knowledge of being in love, or having an orgasm, or deja vu
yet never had the experience.
And once you experienced such phenomena
it would be an enlightening experience.

This knowledge = enlightenment equation is way off the mark
and reminds me of the deluded thinking that has caused many
a potential rock guitarist to go to college thinking they should
get a degree in music-to get knowledge of music.
When the greatest rock guitarists like Jimi Hendrix, and Eric Clapton
never went to college-they just went ahead and did it-experienced it.
Jimi Hendrix was so creative and not limited to just ossified received knowledge
that he played his fender stratocaster upside down.
This is clearly an example of Einstein's statement,
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
This Knowledge =enlightenment approach has caused a lot of mediocrity
in music and has given rise to much uninspired concept oriented schlock.

(By the way you took my quote out of context and twisted it with a bunch
of irrelevant concepts that were never mentioned in the debate continuum. You twist my words like the church twists the words of Jesus.
Chronic ironic of the iconic.)

Inspired-derived from "in spirit"-spirit means spirituality not materialism.

Atheist countries like Russia and Maoist China for some reason haven't
produced any great rock guitarist or international rock songs but when western rock groups go to Russia the kids go crazy. But these atheist countries have repressed the people and left them uninspired for decades. Fortunately this is changing. And look at Atheist prison systems like Maoist China or North Korea-Religious countries almost always have better prisons due to the teachings on compassion that get get subliminally internalized. Jesus and Buddha taught compassion and forgiveness. Atheists are the least flexible and most prejudiced people the world has ever seen.

Atheists believe there are no Deities.
That is a religious belief-like it or not.
Personally I don't believe in God (one Supreme being)-
And I accept my not believing as a religious belief.
Of course it's religious-God is the subject of my nonbelief.
I haven't experienced God.
I have had mystical, inspired experiences.
I believe there are infinite beings in infinite universes
That is my unlimited, flexible and vast spiritual perspective.
This is impossible to prove-yet Enlightened beings like the Buddha
taught this 2500 years ago. People still study the wisdom of Buddha
and Jesus after 2 millenia. True wisdom enlightenment holds up over time.

Fanatical atheists like Chairman Mao and Kim Il Jong suck all the
inspiration out of their countries and give rise to repressed zombies.
As time goes by these fanatical atheist zombies become more despised.

They fail to realize the following Jimi Hendrix wisdom teaching...
"When the power of love
is stronger than the love of power,
then there will be peace in the world."
Jimi Hendrix

Peace, love, creativity from inspiration-this is what brings joy to the world.
Forget churches and isms-if you just listened to the words of Christ or Buddha-
they say the same thing as Hendrix.
Narrow minded, repressed fanatical atheists tend to be the used toilet paper people of the planet.:

I care about religion because religion is what has been used as an answer to questions that humans had no understanding of for thousands of years.

Religion was THE answer to almost EVERY question.

What are those white cloud things floating by over head?

What are those grey cloud things that float by with the giant loud noises and bolts of light shooting out of them when the water falls out?

What is that big bright thing that shoots across the sky and gives off a warm feeling that we call a "Sun"?

What is that big white moon thing that shoots across the sky whenever "Sun" is sleeping?

What are all of those little white dots that appear every night in the sky?

What happens when you die?

What happens when I sleep at night and have VISIONS?

Why did the thing we call a "sun" suddenly disappear in the middle of the day?





I mean really try and put yourself into these peoples position.

They had no vision correction. Half blind people could have been trudging around everywhere back then.

The had very little knowledge of mental illness or hallucinations. How would you separate someone who was suffering from Schizophrenia from someone who just received a vision from a God or a gods representative?

What about someone who had a Multiple Personality Disorder?
Or had a Phobia that was not understood?
What if a Big Wig Religious leader had a Phobia of Pigs in ancient Islam?
Kill all the pigs DO NOT TOUCH A PIG THEY ARE UNCLEAN!

You REALLY have to weigh these facts heavily.

Something like Tourette's Syndrome would make people think suspiciously of demonic infestation or cultism.

So many things we had absolutely NO scientific/reason based answer for were answered with the only thing they had access to.

The imagination. Which lead to tradition and superstition and religion.

There WAS no scientific method. And even once it was invented it was STILL ignored because it would conflict with many HEAVILY held beliefs of religion and superstition.

Mathematics was set back HUNDREDS of years in ancient Iran and Iraq.

Astronomy was set back a THOUSAND years!

Just imagine what an extra thousand years of knowledge of the Universe could have brought us!

If you cannot see these as reasons enough to care about religion then try and think of something that science has found an answer to and put it in the society of ancient man.

How would they have treated something like this?

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by mannapolie

 

Materialism and humanism are both examples of atheist "religions," for lack of a better word.

And yet atheism is simply the rejection of a deity.

And I think the "better word" you are thinking of is 'philosophies'.

I have to quote myself because everyone else seems to have missed this post, in which I clearly explain that I know what atheism is, and have jumped on my more poetic description in a subsequent post.

Well done, nit-pickers, you missed this and the point.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Um. No. You're confusing agnosticism with atheism. Or do you truly think mankind has completely figured out the universe and what is possible and impossible beyond any shadow of a doubt?

I'm confusing nothing. Read above. And I don't think mankind has anything figured out, especially monotheism.

Christian beliefs *or monotheism as it is currently embodied* are not integal to believing in a "higher power".

But they are just as ridiculous.

Neither does a "higher power" have to really care about us or even pay all that much us.

Then why worship or be religious in any way at all?

Anything can be a religion.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Are you suggesting people might actually worship the non-deistic "humanism" or something?

And while we are at it you really should provide a link back to the information cited as opposed to just saying it's from wikipedia. And funny, I found this there as well, I underlined the pertinent line: *aka you're not being honest, tsk tsk, which is why you didn't cite your source, right?*

1. I supposed just the logical search for "humanism" on Wikipedia might be a simple enough task for anyone who wanted to read the entire article.

2. Don't call me a liar. I didn't cite my source because I didn't think you were a pedantic jackass who has an axe to grind, not with the arguments, but the people putting those arguments across. If that is the kind of debate you want, look elsewhere.

3. Simply being "equivilent" to a religion in legal respects doesn't make it one. Nice reach, though.

Enthusiasm for your answers does not replace factuality, true zealots forget that.

Pot, kettle, black. Your enthusiasm doesn't replace factuality, true...oh you know what I'm going to say now.

Oh, and maybe I should put some 's in just too, to somehow lend credence and validity to my arguments? Does that help?

reply to post by Electricneo


I think you missed my point. I'll let the ad hominims and snide remarks slide because I really am not in this for the sake of argument.

Twisting words? You say that atheism is a belief that there is no god/s, and consequently a religious belief. If I were to twist those words, and say that it's a non-belief I'd be wrong? Simple semantics does not change my thinking. If it makes you feel better to think that my non-belief in deities is a 'religious belief' that's great. It doesn't change me, or my thinking.

The guitarist analogy is also a little flat, as there are so many GIT graduates that are extremely successful. Sure there are the "naturals" who have set the world alight, but they certainly didn't all just appear from nowhere. Many either served some kind of apprenticeship playing in smaller venues, and/or had some formal training. That would be knowledge.

I do understand enlightenment, thank you. You can experience many things, but unless you have some knowledge of what you have experienced, it is never going to be useful to just experience anything. Orgasm? Sure you can have one, but isn't the next one better if you know what you're doing?

The point I was making was that those in religion have a tendency towards blind faith, and exclusion of all other factors and data. Once they've taken the plunge/drank the cool-aid they rarely will listen to logical argument against the stance they have taken - no matter how flawed their logic may be. I was, in a sense, using your analogy and just extending it. I wasn't arguing with you, rather agreeing with the basic priciple of what you were saying.

Good luck to you. I would ask that you do not project your 'belief' of my understanding of anything.

I have studied Buddhism quite extensively. I actually like it, as it is not deity based. There's no magic, no contradiction, no dogma.

Atheism is a non-belief in deities.

oh man ignore all live a free life in my family no one baptized me my mom says: its your call you decide it when u grow up. im still unbaptized because i don't know what to believe, in a way i believe there's god but in another i still ain't sure.
i accept gays and etc because its their call not mine! and no one should tell me what to believe in thats nonsense

reply to post by lastxdance


I hope you are joking, but I sense you truly believe the garbage you wrote down. Please, enlighten me...how does "science validate the bible". In what ways exactly? That the universe supposedly formed in 7 exact days That the earth is around 6000 years old. That a special individuals back then consistently lived to over 900 years old. Do I need to go on. I believe this is only the first 4 or 5 pages of the bible if that. Ofcourse, without actually having knowledge or examples to back up your statement, religious naive thinkers like yourself continue to expound such unfounded claims.

Ya know the truth of it is this, Christianity and Atheists will never get along simply because they are deliberately set in opposition to one another and will not, cannot build a bridge. Christians believe that there is one way and only one way period. Anything outside of that is wrong but lets not forget that all religions are this way if not they would not have a following and would probobly fail without that following. How would it be if i made up a religion that said to believe in someone elses religion they are probobly right also. Nope my religion is right and thats what you need to follow is what your going to always hear from people who are of any faith. Noone can claim to have found the great truth to life and existence in any form no matter what you believe if your willing to concede that someone elses truth might be right, cause that somehow means you might be wrong. My favorite is people who amalgamate aspects from every religion and piecemail it into something called a "belief" with no real basis in anything other than it just feels good or feels right so it has to be.

I liked this thread and the original post and i wanted to say hey i am a christian who completely respects and understands your views about atheists being treated wrongly. There are unfortunately alot of christians who forget several key things about their own faith or maybe they just never paid any attention to them. Those being that Jesus said And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Mathew 10:14
The second of which is “And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will” (Second Timothy 2:24-26).
I really do not like to see things like that bench sign attacking people because they dont believe. You cannot bring people to God if you attack them. When will these types of christians learn. The type who tries to do whats right works silently and passively so they go unnoticed and the loud mouth arrogant christian who is full of rightous indignation is the face most people see.

So why do atheists get treated so badly? Why do atheists attack christians? Why did Madeline Ohare work so hard to get prayer out of schools. Christians felt attacked and their way of life attacked. People do the things they do because they are compelled to for whatever reason. Both sides of this coin has had its good guys and bad guys. Rememeber history is written by the victors. I would love to see a world where my kind and your kind can just get along and forget politics and religion and just be friends. I am a christian but i am not christ. Too many people who call themselves christians forget that. They walk and talk with a superiority to others and forget to humble themselves. I have a ex wife who is pagan. She is wiccan. Took some time for me to come to terms with this. It was her who helped me see my own folly at my stubborn, unyielding almost fundametalist attitude with regards to christianity. She made me realize what i had always known and forgot and that is christ came in love and peace and taught those things yet here i was acting towards her like most christians acted towards anyone non christian. How wrong i was. So on behalf of one who loves god and believes, i am sorry you or any atheist has to endure mistreatment simply because you choose not to believe my way.

May truth light the way.............

you posted "why do atheists care about religion"?
and then you go on over 4 posts saying you dont want to discuss about religion or quotes or whatever.

Who cares? believe what you wish to believe. be happy and sure in what you believe for yourself. cause really NO ONE cares. got it? get it? gooodddddd...

I have been watching and reading a lot this last week about athiests bashing catholics, religion etc etc. Why DO YOU care about what other people think?

Did you post this thread just to see what religious zealots would show up, so you could try to belittle them? what is the use of that?
IF you believe and have the self confidence in what you believe then great.. go for it.. live your life with those thoughts and beliefs.

My spirituality has NOTHING to do with what the catholics, islam, and all between believe in. My beliefs are very simple: treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. Dont steal other peoples energy, and keep those that wish to take your energy away from yourself. I believe in reincarnation and our being having a soul that continues on and on. and I believe that "heaven" is on this planet, just another dimension.
Do I have proof? do i really care if you believe me? no.. i really dont. but it is what gets me thru my day, week and life. and that is all you need. think and believe whatever you wish. but PLEASE stop trying to start arguements that neither side can "win" cause there is NO proof for anything, just theories. unless of course you know of someone that has lived to be a billion years old and can tell you all that has happened. NOT just guessing and theories.

reply to post by zeineguy48

I have been watching and reading a lot this last week about athiests bashing catholics, religion etc etc. Why DO YOU care about what other people think?

Because we have an invested interest in the future of humanity. And it's not so much what they think as it is what they do.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/91639a6d7188.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 18-6-2009 by Welfhard]

in answer to your op question,

i think its because at one point in our lives we had to deal with religion and its pros and cons

at least thats why i care.

Agnostics don't know if there is a God.

Atheist don't believe there is a God and don't care.

Infidels don't believe in God and doesn't want anyone else to either.

Most outspoken Atheist are Infidels, they just won't admit it. The basic definition of an atheist is there isn't a God, no debate needed.

reply to post by truth_seeker3

I find your post to be pretentious and upperty to tell the truth.
If you honestly believe the American government was made JUST for Christians and Atheists should abandon their disbelief just to fit into this supposed society then I think you really need to look at yourself and decide whether you should ever voice your opinions again.
It disgusts me to think that this is your basis for arguement.

As for the main question, I believe Atheists like myself care about religion because personally I struggle to believe how others cannot see the flaws in EVERY religion (not just Christian) and follow reason as opposed to blind faith... However I do understand that for God to be whom he is considered to be within the Bible, blind faith is a necessity.

Overall I often just find myself baffeld by the fact that the evidence leans more towards his none existance and yet people continue to believe scriptures that they have never actually read in their true form.


[edit on 6-7-2009 by ScarletteEmily]

reply to post by Welfhard


Um, remember what else was happening in that period in history? Particularly Rome's descent than crash? It's all well and good to blame that stretch by just one factor but it's something more to look at the bigger picture.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Anti-intellectualism, like seen in that graph, is the enemy of science. When science becomes identified with blasphemy and heresy, our advancement becomes all but halted. You could say that there are more factors involved in our dark age decent, and you would be right but the main cause is clearly identified and without Christianity, there is no telling how far ahead we would be or how many of our stellar brethren we would have met by now.

When people bow down to mysticism and cannon, the peoples minds become very constricted. Things like solar-centric models of the solar system, the non-flat earth, the idea that the other planets are planets instead of some eye of a god even rudimentary ideas of biological evolution, these things were discovered and debated in the library of Alexandria. When the library was burned down, in some cases, it took more than a millennium to rediscover things we once knew.



[edit on 7-7-2009 by Welfhard]

You atheists are being persecuted? Diddums! You wish...
Leave America, you won't have a problem.
(Stop mistaking America for Christianity, would be a good start.)

reply to post by Vicky32


Why the hell are you bumping a thread that was dead over a year before you joined?

Oh, to ridicule atheists...by saying they're not persecuted...even though you're bumping a thread that's been dead for a year and a half to ridicule them.

Yeah, makes sense.

Originally posted by Vicky32
You atheists are being persecuted? Diddums! You wish...

We are, in many places and in many ways. And no, I don't wish. I wish I could freely be an atheist. I wish I didn't have to care about the clear harms that religion has on my and other societies. I wish that religion didn't harm people and nations, I wish it simply existed and people who were religious didn't persecute atheists.

Leave America, you won't have a problem.

Really? I'm not in America, I can get sentenced to up to 6 months in prison for disagreeing with the Roman Catholic Church in a way that would vilify it.

(Stop mistaking America for Christianity, would be a good start.)

Well, it is the nation that is through and through most populated by practicing Christians. Of course, I'd say that Christians from all nations aren't exactly the best neighbors to atheists. Try 'coming out' as an atheist in a religious family. There are still nations with blasphemy laws, which in many ways force atheists to walk on egg shells when speaking about religion.

..and I don't need to bother bringing up the Muslim world. Atheists, definitely persecuted there. Some people follow the apostasy = death thing..