Why do Atheists care about religion?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by 5thElement

 

Easy claim to make. Impossible to prove.

I can think of another claim asserted by many and blindly believed...

Originally posted by Electricneo
I have never met an atheist who can maintain inner calm like various
Buddhist monks I've met

Well, then, go over to RichardDawkins.net and speak with Former Buddhist Monk, who posts over there. He'll help you reach enlightenment.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
[

Atheists are the ones who are doing the thinking in this situation. Religion requires people to stop thinking and blindly accept the dogma of "faith". You know that, this is why you try to deflect and reflect, a very weak tactic if you haven't noticed. Religion is a drug and if you think it gives clarity of mind you need an intervention.

Religion may be a drug, but it is natural one, a natural therapy. Atheism is more akin to chop shop pharmaceuticals that have multiple negative side effects. Which you appear to present.

I think you need some serious intervention there Gawdzilla. You, as an atheist will be more likely to suicide, have substance abuse issues, be aggressive( well we all see that already).

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder.

ajp.psychiatryonline.org... RSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT......oh yeah, sign me up for that one, not.

reply to post by atlasastro


"Religion may be a drug, but it is natural one, a natural therapy. Atheism is more akin to chop shop pharmaceuticals that have multiple negative side effects. Which you appear to present."

You rationalize your addiction to religion. Sorry about that.

The only negative side I have is to people trying to hijack our science classes for their religious agenda. You have no idea how I am in the real world.

reply to post by atlasastro

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

This article was on already depressed patients, meaning it's not representative healthy people.

Now find a study linking Atheism and depression, if you wanna prove your point. I for one have not met any depressed atheists but my experiences are hardly representative either.

Another point to consider is the old adage "Truth hurts." Since there is no such thing as absolute truth, we have to talk about perceived truth. Atheism is a cold uncomfortable and cosmically humbling belief and for those who turn to it who were religious, temporary sadness is common. But to say that if a person is depressed they should get religion - well it's hardly justification for an entire belief system. Wanting a god to exist doesn't justify a belief in the existence of god.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard
This article was on already depressed patients, meaning it's not representative healthy people.

Now find a study linking Atheism and depression, if you wanna prove your point. I for one have not met any depressed atheists but my experiences are hardly representative either.
[edit on 8-5-2009 by Welfhard]

The point of the post was to show that atheists are evil, sick, demented people. It's a way of making them less than "normal" people. It's a way of avoid the fact that atheists are just people who have outgrown religion.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
It's a way of avoid the fact that atheists are just people who have outgrown religion.

I wouldn't necessarily say outgrown. Some aren't. Some are as much zealots as any religious person can be, but it just goes to show that it's not atheism that causes it, but just that loud religious people are loud religious people regardless of their specific belief system.

Originally posted by WelfhardI wouldn't necessarily say outgrown. Some aren't. Some are as much zealots as any religious person can be, but it just goes to show that it's not atheism that causes it, but just that loud religious people are loud religious people regardless of their specific belief system.

As a class, atheists have evolved past superstitions like religion. Some of them are more vocal about it than others, but that's just because their humans.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by WelfhardI wouldn't necessarily say outgrown. Some aren't. Some are as much zealots as any religious person can be, but it just goes to show that it's not atheism that causes it, but just that loud religious people are loud religious people regardless of their specific belief system.

As a class, atheists have evolved past superstitions like religion. Some of them are more vocal about it than others, but that's just because their humans.

But some atheists came be as fervorous about their beliefs and still not have decent justification for them, just like any religious nut.

Originally posted by WelfhardBut some atheists came be as fervorous about their beliefs and still not have decent justification for them, just like any religious nut.

True. We've already seen examples of people who jump from one religion to another, apparently randomly. To them atheism is just one position in a string, and they'll move on to something else after a while. Those are the ones who become obstreperous about atheism, IMNSHO.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


The point is that I'm not trying to assert that Atheism is any better than any religion, because it's not, the only thing to it is a single non falsifiable theory and that is all.

Like I hinted at in the OP, I don't actually care about what people believe, although I do enjoy the intellectual discussion, I just care about what people do in relation to their religion, especially when it comes to decency, justice and equality. I care about what people base their actions on.

The agenda of trying to make America a Christian country is unfair to all other religions and the non-religious. That's the whole point - no one person's beliefs or non beliefs are greater than any other, so to treat them this way is wrong.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


"The agenda of trying to make America a Christian country is unfair to all other religions and the non-religious. That's the whole point - no one person's beliefs or non beliefs are greater than any other, so to treat them this way is wrong."

I wouldn't have any problem with a "Christian" America, they'd act better than they do now one would hope. However, Americans are no more religious than other people, the same lip-service on Sunday and acting like a hairless ape the rest of the week. No different from anybody else I've met.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Welfhard

 

"The agenda of trying to make America a Christian country is unfair to all other religions and the non-religious. That's the whole point - no one person's beliefs or non beliefs are greater than any other, so to treat them this way is wrong."

I wouldn't have any problem with a "Christian" America, they'd act better than they do now one would hope.

Why chance it? Historically it always goes wrong as corruption grows. As fundamentalism goes up, intellectualism goes down. It's a simple yet strong correlation.

Double post.


sorz!

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

You rationalize your addiction to religion. Sorry about that.

Actually, you assume that. I was offering an opinion to counter your accusation that Religion was a drug and that people are addicts. The perception of "addicts" are ones that are inherently negative when looked at from many aspects. Your hypocracy is phenomenal, as in a later post you make the accustaion that I was attempting to say this

The point of the post was to show that atheists are evil, sick, demented people. It's a way of making them less than "normal" people.

Nowhere in my post did I mention any of that. You infer it all.
Its ok for you to paint religious people as "drugged", meaning that they are less "normal" or deviant in nature.

The only negative side I have is to people trying to hijack our science classes for their religious agenda.

Please show me where religion has hijacked anything in secular state funded schools. Please, Your alarmist rhetoric screams of the Evangelical Atheism we see Hichin and Dawkins scream from the Pulpit , There comming for the children, save the children. Come on Gawdzilla, is this the Atheists fire and brimstone routine?

You have no idea how I am in the real world.

Is this not the real world? Are you saying that you are not real here?
Yet, you know it all about "drugged religious people". Don't you. It is ok for you to paint all and sundry under one broad banner, but when I do it to Atheists?

Regarding the article. Given that it was a study of people suffering depresion, is it still not significant to note the role that religion plays as opposed to the effects noted in those where it is absent. As someone who loves to retort with all things science I thought you would have easily noted, as a factor, religion is significant when looked at in sections of our population. For your information, Depression has is extremely significant within society.
The fact is that YOU link Drugs and religion makes this study even more relevant, THIS IS WHY I MENTION THE STUDY.
Depression and religion, a natural drug that may be a factor in the depression, and the possible outcomes likely in individuals. The study shows this as a significant factor. SCIENCE.
It also shows that the abscence is just as significant. Those in this catogory are more likely to be substance abusers or suicides.
I thought you would see the connection, which is why I make the natural drug reference in a previous post. But obviously you would rather infer that I was making snide attacks on your snide attacks, so to speak.
The fact I made personal references to you, is because, quite frankly, you love dishing it out yourself. I am aware that this may have been far too personal for you, this was unintended, but religion is a very personal topic, so any accusations where one may accuse another religious poster of being an addict, or perhaps another may suggest a member is more likely to be a substance abuser or aggressive because thay are atheist is a reasonable exchange, after all Gawdzilla, its not the real world is it. LOL.
It is obvious that I can take it. But.....

It's a way of avoid the fact that atheists are just people who have outgrown religion

Yes, that is why you are here. Because you have moved on. Right.

Religion and Atheism, one and the same. Answer all the questions that people use religion for, and then I woud hazard a guess that the majority of people will listen. Until then, your just another culturally accepted cult. Welcome to rehab.

reply to post by atlasastro


"Please show me where religion has hijacked anything in secular state funded schools."

Really, you haven't been watching the news? The Dover, Del., battle? Evolution Wars I and II? Never heard of them? Never heard of the Wedge Document? You've never heard a preacher saying "The Bible should be the only book we use in any school"? Really? Okay then.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


The fact that it takes seeing for you to believe will be your (21st century) ultimate downfall. These miracles that are coming will even deceive some of the upstanding Christians that are not morally deviated. I assure you as a former atheist that there is indeed a God. Why would he want people to worship him 24/7? He's got the four living creatures by His throne for that. There needs to be unbelief otherwise belief would mean nothing. Even the Bible says that...

reply to post by Welfhard


My reply was not a generalisation of Atheists, but an on topic reply to religions as a drug, and the generalistion that people are "addicts". Addiction is hardly a pleasant picture to paint of anyone.

Gawdzilla, also has expressed an irrational fear that religious people are "hijacking schools and classrooms".
It has been noted in depressed people that irrational fears, and beliefs are present.

Given that Gawdzilla appears to be atheist, may be depressed by irrational fears of school hijackings, perhaps as the study I link has shown, a natural therapy is of use so as to avoid the many negative alternatives atheist seem to be exposed to. These being substance abuse and suicide.

Thank you for your reply.

reply to post by watchtheashes


"Even the Bible says that... "

If you take the Bible as an authority, good luck to you. You're life will be "interesting".

Originally posted by atlasastroMy reply was not a generalisation of Atheists, but an on topic reply to religions as a drug, and the generalistion that people are "addicts". Addiction is hardly a pleasant picture to paint of anyone.

Gawdzilla, also has expressed an irrational fear that religious people are "hijacking schools and classrooms".
It has been noted in depressed people that irrational fears, and beliefs are present.

Given that Gawdzilla appears to be atheist, may be depressed by irrational fears of school hijackings, perhaps as the study I link has shown, a natural therapy is of use so as to avoid the many negative alternatives atheist seem to be exposed to. These being substance abuse and suicide.

Thank you for your reply.

My fear is not "irrational", it's well documented. You really have to get current on this topic before you talk yourself into the ground.

And, I get a complete pysch eval every year. Required to keep my clearances. One shrink said I was saner than most of his staff.