Did a Military Plane, Drop Airplane Parts Over Shanksville?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Still waiting on that answer.

edit on 6-9-2011 by DragonriderGal because: (no reason given)

At the time of impact the port engine was at 60% power, that would be around 22,000 pounds of static thrust. Of course the plane was very dynamic at the time so the thrust would be greatly reduced, but it still should be more than enough thrust to move the engine 900 ft. I thought the answer was obvious that's why I didn't answer it.

Did you know that at the speed it was traveling, the engine would only need to remain airborne for just a little over 1 second to make it to the pond.

60% power you say? And you have the source for that, right? And if that was the case, then the airplane wouldn't have been going at max speed as it rammed into the ground.. only 60%. Plus the OS said it rolled. Are you saying it bounced? Or that it broke off before impact? And it was only the fan of the engine... where is the rest of the engine? That area by the pond wasn't fill dirt, eh?

And so you think this is just a tapered piece of wood with a flange on each side and two access holes, and this wood is bent at each of these access holes? Interesting.

Interesting that you can make out so much detail when I can't. Looks like a piece of somewhat splintered wood that had holes in it from where it was secured to the garage door. And really. Do you think the OS wouldn't include this piece of 'evidence' (since they very much seem to be scrabbling for anything that might seem even vaguely like a piece of the 'crash') if in fact it was such an 'obvious' air frame part?? Huh. Stretching here I think.

Did you notice the passenger seat cushion to the left of the logo?

My my, aren't you getting desperate? IF in fact it were something that could have been used as 'evidence', we'd all be seeing pictures of it as 'proof' as noted before. Looks more like a burnt piece of cardboard to me, or maybe just a scorched spot on the ground.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

After much thought about motive, I am believing the whole Shanksville thing was faked and staged to manipulate us into feeling the 'nobility' of the Lets Roll group and how it was better to 'fight and even die'

Does your motive thinking have any theory on what happened to the passengers aboard the 'real' aircraft?

wait, I thought flight 93 was full of passengers from the other flights ?

you guys need to get your story straight

Originally posted by DragonriderGal


60% power you say? And you have the source for that, right? And if that was the case, then the airplane wouldn't have been going at max speed as it rammed into the ground.. only 60%. Plus the OS said it rolled. Are you saying it bounced? Or that it broke off before impact? And it was only the fan of the engine... where is the rest of the engine? That area by the pond wasn't fill dirt, eh?

Port engine 60%, starboard engine 40%, Velocity 580 mph, From FDR read out.

The engine rolled quote came from:

"It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996.

He was not directly involved in the investigation of flt93.

The rest of the engine was found above ground in the woods near the pond.

Trooper John F. Marshall "The biggest part I found was one of the plane's engines. It was about 600 yards from the crash site itself. I think they took it out with a winch on a bulldozer."

Interesting that you can make out so much detail when I can't. Looks like a piece of somewhat splintered wood that had holes in it from where it was secured to the garage door. And really. Do you think the OS wouldn't include this piece of 'evidence' (since they very much seem to be scrabbling for anything that might seem even vaguely like a piece of the 'crash') if in fact it was such an 'obvious' air frame part?? Huh. Stretching here I think.

My my, aren't you getting desperate? IF in fact it were something that could have been used as 'evidence', we'd all be seeing pictures of it as 'proof' as noted before. Looks more like a burnt piece of cardboard to me, or maybe just a scorched spot on the ground.

The NTSB filed a report and turned it over to the FBI. The FBI has not released this report to the general public, But I'm sure they've got plenty of pictures, they always do.

Did you ever see that interview with Wally Miller. He alone has a stack of pictures 3" thick.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

After much thought about motive, I am believing the whole Shanksville thing was faked and staged to manipulate us into feeling the 'nobility' of the Lets Roll group and how it was better to 'fight and even die'

Does your motive thinking have any theory on what happened to the passengers aboard the 'real' aircraft?

Well, according to the Mayor of Cleveland, the real UA 93 landed at their airport because of a bomb threat, and evacuated all of it's passengers. Some even refer to an operation called Operation Northwood that had a nearly identical scenario (take a commercial flight, land it somewhere, take the passengers off, have a armed drone take off in it's place using the same call sign and then have them crash and explode in cuba saying the cubans did it and all those poor lost people blah blah) planned as a reason to attack Cuba. If TPTB would consider that then, why not now?? Especially if they already had a plan to work from?

Here's an interesting article I found about the UA93 'passengers'...

www.docstoc.com...

Originally posted by waypastvne


Port engine 60%, starboard engine 40%, Velocity 580 mph, From FDR read out.

You mean the black box they 'found'? From what I've read that was never actually verified as being from UA93. And well, since none of us have anything to read it with, they can pretty much say what they want, can't they? Not that they'd let us read it anyway.

The engine rolled quote came from:

"It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996.

He was not directly involved in the investigation of flt93.

So the OS uses a quote from an incident that isn't even the one in question????? Wow. Smooth Work! So you are saying the engine bounced over the trees? Off that soft ground, eh? Even though the much lighter aluminum burrowed in and totally disappeared like a mole. Without the mound of dirt behind it, of course. There's that magic fill dirt again. Gee, I wish I had some.

The rest of the engine was found above ground in the woods near the pond.

Trooper John F. Marshall "The biggest part I found was one of the plane's engines. It was about 600 yards from the crash site itself. I think they took it out with a winch on a bulldozer."

From what I've read, the bulldozer pulled the engine fan out of the drained pond with the winch. And you know, would a trooper really know the difference between an engine and an engine fan? If you don't work with airplanes, you may not even realize what the whole engine looks like because all you typically see is the fan part, eh? And he obviously didn't see the removal... he said he thinks "they took it out..."

And from my research, it appears that there are two different versions of this 'engine/engine part' thing. One version says it was a fan in the pond 300 yds away; one says it was an engine in the bushes 600 yds away, but neither versions seem to mention the other from what I am seeing, at least not in the same article.

And did I miss photos of this engine/engine fan? Again, with what few and pathetic pieces of evidence they've put forth as proof of UA93's crashed carcass, you think they'd have rushed to post pictures of that engine or engine piece as more definite 'proof', just like they did the one (so oddly small enough to fit into that backhoe right next to it) they've tried to fob off on us as the other engine.

The NTSB filed a report and turned it over to the FBI. The FBI has not released this report to the general public, But I'm sure they've got plenty of pictures, they always do.

Did you ever see that interview with Wally Miller. He alone has a stack of pictures 3" thick.

Yah, funny how none of those NTSB pics ever got released by the FBI. I'm sure they just haven't had time to go thru them... it's only been 10 years. Heck, who'd want to see those boring old pictures anyway?

And gee.. we don't see Wally's pictures either; at least *I* haven't encountered them during my searches for images of 9-11. Maybe he was just too amateur a photographer? Maybe he kept cutting off people's heads or something... oh wait.. there weren't any heads. Never mind!

Or maybe he doesn't know how to use a scanner. Or maybe YOU have a link for a site with his 3" of pictures on it? That would be swell!

Originally posted by waypastvne
Hey ATH here is a new piece of debris. Wadaya think ?
Vertical Stabiliser Main Spar maybe ?
It is the right size. It is the right shape.
Flange on each side just like a vertical stabiliser main spar would have.
It's the strongest part of the tail. It's aluminium not carbon so it won't shatter on impact like the rest of the tail. You've been looking for the tail for years surely you would recognise a part of it when you see it.

So what do you think have we found the tail ?

I agree with DragonriderGal, looks like a piece of wood.

I don't understand how that could be a tail piece when supposedly the black boxes located in the tail section were buried 15ft & 25ft and the only part of the plane to have remained above ground was the cockpit section when it supposedly snapped off during the wingtip/cartwheel impact.

reply to post by DragonriderGal

So your theory is that the passengers were taken off in Cleveland and a drone aircraft was sent along to crash. Do you think that the airline has filed off serial numbers and has an extra airplane? Not likely, because that would require cooperation of too many people. What did they do with the airplane? How about the passengers?
I attended a memorial service for one of them and that sure didn't look like a fake.

In general, when one plans a military operation, it is considered good form to keep it simple. The less moving parts, the better, and the more chance that it might actually work.
The easiest and safest thing to do, for the plotters, is to set the stage and let things play out. There is no need for complex plans, demolitions, parts drops, etc. What is gained by the Shanksville event? You seem to think it is hero production but heroes can be ginned up as needed without Shanksville.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

You mean the black box they 'found'? From what I've read that was never actually verified as being from UA93. And well, since none of us have anything to read it with, they can pretty much say what they want, can't they? Not that they'd let us read it anyway.

The FDR data has been released for years. You can look at it in graph, video simulation, Or binary code if you want.

From what I've read, the bulldozer pulled the engine fan out of the drained pond with the winch. And you know, would a trooper really know the difference between an engine and an engine fan? If you don't work with airplanes, you may not even realize what the whole engine looks like because all you typically see is the fan part, eh? And he obviously didn't see the removal... he said he thinks "they took it out..."

And from my research, it appears that there are two different versions of this 'engine/engine part' thing. One version says it was a fan in the pond 300 yds away; one says it was an engine in the bushes 600 yds away, but neither versions seem to mention the other from what I am seeing, at least not in the same article.

And did I miss photos of this engine/engine fan? Again, with what few and pathetic pieces of evidence they've put forth as proof of UA93's crashed carcass, you think they'd have rushed to post pictures of that engine or engine piece as more definite 'proof', just like they did the one (so oddly small enough to fit into that backhoe right next to it) they've tried to fob off on us as the other engine.

Engine core removed from woods with bulldozer. Portion of main fan lifted from pond with crane. Look at the dates of the articles you'r reading.

Yah, funny how none of those NTSB pics ever got released by the FBI. I'm sure they just haven't had time to go thru them... it's only been 10 years. Heck, who'd want to see those boring old pictures anyway?

And gee.. we don't see Wally's pictures either; at least *I* haven't encountered them during my searches for images of 9-11. Maybe he was just too amateur a photographer? Maybe he kept cutting off people's heads or something... oh wait.. there weren't any heads. Never mind!

Or maybe he doesn't know how to use a scanner. Or maybe YOU have a link for a site with his 3" of pictures on it? That would be swell!

The 3" stack of pictures appeared in a truther video where 3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.
Wally let them look through the pictures but wouldn't let them film them. Wally unlike truthers has a sense of morals and felt it would not be right them post pictures of body parts on the web. I agree.

If you want to know what was on those pictures, go ask the truthers that made the video. They post regularly on the CIT forum. I don't need to ask them. I have no doubts Flt 93 crashed in Shanksville.

Originally posted by waypastvne
The rest of the engine was found above ground in the woods near the pond.

Trooper John F. Marshall "The biggest part I found was one of the plane's engines. It was about 600 yards from the crash site itself. I think they took it out with a winch on a bulldozer."

Why did Popular Mechanics make it seem like that story was incorrect and it was an engine fan in the pond instead?

Don't you think we would have seen a pic of that "engine in the woods"? That would have been the heaviest piece that "survived."

Originally posted by pteridine
What is gained by the Shanksville event?

What kind of answers would satisfy you?

Originally posted by waypastvne
3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.

Looked like Wally was a very willing participant for that interview, so you need to take back that slanderous lie you just told.

Wally let them look through the pictures but wouldn't let them film them. Wally unlike truthers has a sense of morals and felt it would not be right them post pictures of body parts on the web. I agree.

Unlike the Moussaoui trial website with the dead Pentagon bodies?

If you want to know what was on those pictures, go ask the truthers that made the video. They post regularly on the CIT forum. I don't need to ask them. I have no doubts Flt 93 crashed in Shanksville.

I asked and Dominick said one photo showed a severed arm that Wally said wasn't found until 9/12. Dom said it looked like from the closeup shot that it was in the middle of a dirt road and he said there NO WAY they missed it the first day, leading him to believe either it was planted for 9/12, or it was a staged photo taken somewhere else. He also said that Wally said all the body parts were brought to him by the FBI. Hmmm.

Originally posted by ATH911

I agree with DragonriderGal, looks like a piece of wood.

I don't understand how that could be a tail piece when supposedly the black boxes located in the tail section were buried 15ft & 25ft and the only part of the plane to have remained above ground was the cockpit section when it supposedly snapped off during the wingtip/cartwheel impact.

WOW all those years you spent looking for the tail, and you never even bothered to find out what it was made of, or what the parts look like.

The red arrow is pointing to the Vertical Stabiliser Main Spar.
The green arrow is pointing to the general location of the FDR CVR.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by waypastvne
3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.

Looked like Wally was a very willing participant for that interview, so you need to take back that slanderous lie you just told.

3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.

Originally posted by waypastvne

WOW all those years you spent looking for the tail, and you never even bothered to find out what it was made of, or what the parts look like.

So only that main spar landed above ground and the rest of the tail buried with the black boxes? Don't you think that "tail scar" was a tail scar?

Originally posted by waypastvne
3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.

So Wally Miller is dumb enough to allowed to be pestered by 3 truthers? Is that what you are basically saying?

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by waypastvne

WOW all those years you spent looking for the tail, and you never even bothered to find out what it was made of, or what the parts look like.

So only that main spar landed above ground and the rest of the tail buried with the black boxes? Don't you think that "tail scar" was a tail scar?

You do what the major material used in the construction of the tail fins was don't you ? You do don't you ? Why would you spend years looking for the tail, without finding out what it was made of ?

Here's a hint.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by ATH911
So only that main spar landed above ground and the rest of the tail buried with the black boxes? Don't you think that "tail scar" was a tail scar?

You do...

Weird answer to my questions. Try answering my questions before asking your own.

So now you're saying parts of the tail section landed near Indian Lake?

Originally posted by ATH911

3 thruthers went and pestered Wally Miller.

So Wally Miller is dumb enough to allowed to be pestered by 3 truthers? Is that what you are basically saying?

The truthers went through the mayor is my understanding. Wally is sick of talking to truthers and it really shows in that video. In fact he says it many many many times during that video.

Originally posted by ATH



So Wally Miller is dumb enough to allowed to be pestered by 3 truthers? Is that what you are basically saying?

The truthers went through the mayor is my understanding. Wally is sick of talking to truthers and it really shows in that video. In fact he says it many many many times during that video.