Uk police allowed to kill supposedly.

"The police have well-established powers to use reasonable force if they think there is a threat either to themselves or the public, but these are enhanced during a protest or riot.

The key concept is that of "reasonable force" - i.e. force that is in proportion to the threat faced either by the public, the police or property
Thus "reasonable force" may literally range from putting a hand on someone's elbow, to shooting them dead
The legislation governing police powers during demonstrations (mostly the Public Order Act 1986) must also be seen in context of human rights' legislation
Under European human rights' laws the police are required to actively protect the public's right to peaceful protest
Policing during a protest, therefore, is a negotiation between the rights of police to use reasonable force to protect the public, and their responsibility to allow peaceful protest to take place "

news.bbc.co.uk...

So skipping a few days back to the G20:

I don't really figure this one out. Under European human rights, the police are supposed to protect the public's right to protest, yet in the Ian Tomlinson case, he was a member of the public (who they are supposed to also be protecting) and wasn't even a protestor, yet he was treated as though he was a rioter or criminal and battered with a baton and shoved to the ground violently whereupon he most certainly died of his injuries.

For those who disagree, if say I would without provocation shove a man to the floor and hit him with a baton, and within a few minutes that man should drop dead of heart failure..... would i be responsible? Of course.

So.......... are the police now our judge, jury and executors?

So... by that logic alone... shouldn't the Police have arrested the offending Officer? The guy who was attacking the public totally unprovoked.

God forbid what will happen if the offending officer gets off lightly with this, Jean Charles de Menezes was one step to far, now this is another...





[edit on 8-4-2009 by mr-lizard]

The police totally ruined my life and effectively murdered me, they did everything under the sun to get me to commit suicide. Are they in jail, no, but the people that did thsi to me are walking around free and must think the police are there just for running vendettas against innocent people who never do anything to anyone.

Police are giving these rights and like i said in other threads, if you are interested in being a serial killer do not join the army join the police and you can kill anyone you want, just make it all up.

Pure scum and this thread is so true.

Maybe we should wait until the results of the high profile public independent investigation before drawing conclusions?

And bear in mind that not all police are evil b*stards in the same way that not all ATS emmbers are evil b*stards

I know a few policemen and they are as decent people as you will ever meet.

I have been talking about this with people for days, from what I can see and feel, if this Police Officer isn't arrested and charged with at the very least Manslaughter, then the SWHTF big time, not one person has said anything different, sure the odd one or two has said charge him with murder, but unintentionally killing someone is Manslaughter, but can still hold life in Prison if I remember right.

From what I have seen, all the violence was started by Police, and caught on film, so there cant be any argument at all, if this copper walks away, then I can see big problems and more protests, this time giving as good as they get.

What the Police did in the Video to that poor man, is nothing short of blatant assault on an innocent man, resulting in his death, I hear the coroner has ordered a second Autopsy.

reply to post by azzllin


I wish bookies would take bets on the outcome of the "enquiery" 'cos the favourite bet for all to see would be WHITEWASH .

reply to post by Essan


Couldn't agree more.

MOST police are normal decent people. They are overworked, see the country getting more and more violent and of course, have to face that on the streets every day, which of course doesn't help their demeanor!

There ARE a few sociopaths and power hungry tosspots that have weasled their way in past the screening processes, but such is life, you are going to find these types in every single walk of life.

Most police do a hard and difficult job, and for the most part do it well.

Edit to add: It must feel like a right slap in the face if you are in the Met police.
Last year (or was it the year before?) they were told by the Home secretary, that their pay rise deal, could not be paid to them, as it may ruin the country's finances!
It amounted to about £50 Million, (that's all!)
Then a few months down the road, the Government hands over more that £500 Billion to the banks! That has to piss you off?!

If i hadn't been such a berk in my earlier life, i may have applied to join them.
Especially now, as i have two young kids to worry about.

spikey.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by spikey]

[edit on 8-4-2009 by spikey]

There is something strange about this whole issue going on in Britain. British cops traditionally don't even carry guns unless they work in a high crime area, when did this pattern start?

I absolutely agree with your topic.

Check this out.

Operation Kratos

We might be paranoid, but they are more paranoid...

If you go to the channel4 wesite below, watch the vid. It shows the policeman hit the man with a batton. That shows factually that that policeman caused his death.

www.channel4.com...

this video is prove positive, that the police are murderers.

This video is fact of what was done to this poor man.

reply to post by secretagent woooman


Guns?

What guns? They were carrying batons, not guns.

spikey

Originally posted by Essan
Maybe we should wait until the results of the high profile public independent investigation before drawing conclusions?

And bear in mind that not all police are evil b*stards in the same way that not all ATS emmbers are evil b*stards

I know a few policemen and they are as decent people as you will ever meet.

well that's the crux man. Police men on their own, are fine. But when you get them all pumped up and send them out in attack squads, then they become that mob mentality that the protesters are supposed to have. I know some ok coppers (I live next door to one) But when they hide their badge numbers, and keep DOCTORS in the police kettle, when they need to go start the shift at a hospital. They become criminals, and they are the ones to fear. Not us.

But I'm hearing roumers on political sites about how to protect yourselves against them, and how best to fight back. So it's going to go down. Right diggety down, like a polar bear on a water slide.

Originally posted by andy1033
If you go to the channel4 wesite below, watch the vid. It shows the policeman hit the man with a batton. That shows factually that that policeman caused his death.

www.channel4.com...

this video is prove positive, that the police are murderers.

This video is fact of what was done to this poor man.

Well, if you are going to say anything like that, you should not make sweeping statements mate.

'The police' are not murderers. For the most part, they catch or stop them.

If i had to go out on a limb, looking at the bit of video that was on the TV earlier, i'd say the policeman, that whacked the poor bloke with the baton, for no apparent reason, would be guilty of manslaghter or similar.

And let us be clear here: We are talking about ONE policeman here, NOT 'The Police'.

It's one thing to get angry at the copper who did this, and another to agitate people against the police in general.

Do you get angry and condemn the whole of the British population, when one psycho goes and kills someone? No, of course not, you condemn the psycho. Same thing.

Would you like to live in a country that didn't have a police force? With all the crap that goes on these days? I sure as **** wouldn't mate!

spikey.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Notice how the news announcer says the officer that "seems to push" Ian Tolminson has come forward. He pushed him, he didn't seem to push him.
What is wrong with the media. Are they retarded?

And they went on and on and I was waiting for officer A_Hole's name, and they never gave it out. But if it was you or me? Huh! We would be hung in the media and dried by now.

reply to post by spikey


Whilst, yes, you are right. Only 1 cop is guilty of this mans death. This cop just got "unlucky" (god, did I really just say that!!) That could have been ANY of the hundreds of protesters that took a baton to the head. The police, yes, that's all of them in the kettle and on that protest. Are all potentially murderers in these cases. They have NO idea at all if someone is suffering from a brain condition, or has a weak heart. Yet they still bash people upside the head all day for fun.

There's even a picture of a police medic, arm held back with baton in hand, ready to give an over head strike (drumming up a bit of business.) When the mob mentality sets in, they become one group of complete animals. And it's must end.

Originally posted by Essan
They become criminals, and they are the ones to fear. Not us.

Really?

I don't remember the last time i read about a UK copper mugging an old lady/man for a few quid. Or raping them then beating them to death.

I don't think i've ever heard or read of a UK copper flashing kids in a public park, or raping the same.

I don't even remember the last time a copper burgled a house, to get his or her drugs money.

Knifeing people? Nope. Getting pissed up on a weekend and going all out to put as many people in hospital as posible, cause they looked at his or her bird or bloke? Nope.

Smash and grabs at jewelery shops maybe then? Nope again.

Yeah, there are a few high profile, but isolated cases of brutality and even out and out miscarriages of justice.

But stop and think for a nano second, at the level of not only crime against property (burglary, smash and grab, fraud, etc etc) but of real, bloody, violent crime against innocent people, mostly minding their own business, and it soon puts your comment into perspective..which is the perspective of an brain adled teenager, frankly mate.

Said before, and i'll say it again for you.

YOU are a lot safer with the police with their odd bad apples, than without any of them. Most people would not last a week, if the police suddenly dissapeared, and you know it.

spikey.

Originally posted by spikey
'The police' are not murderers. For the most part, they catch or stop them.

My life has proven beyond any shadow of doubt the polcie are murderers. They did everything under the sun to destroy my life to get me into jail or commit suicide. They are murderers full stop. Even though they know i have never commited a crime, they never stopped there crimes to this day. Murderers to the man and women that work for them.

I can mke general statements like that, and they have effectively ended my life before it started and continued for get this 17 years in there haressment. Thats as long as a life sentence of police haressment trying desparetly to set me up or get me to commit suicide.

This is a fact and the video shows the man assaulting that policeman and he should be in jail for murder, fact.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by andy1033]

reply to post by spikey

I'm referring to reports over the past few months on a variety of sites about British officers carrying guns and stun guns. I used to know a London cop some years back who told me they are not authorized to carry weapons unless it involved a warrant or they were in a high-crime area.
There is definitely something wrong with this picture and I don;t chalk it up to the usual antipolice hysteria on this board.

It took one guy to hit the man and push him to his death. It takes the force to shut up and then we say 'the police' instead of isolating the one guy.

reply to post by Acidtastic


Again, you are not being rational mate.

If i had to guess, i'd say you were deliberately trying to stir it up, agitate it a bit. Got your own agenda have you perhaps?

To be honest, i'd say both the copper and the poor bloke got 'unlucky', although the dead bloke more unlucky than the copper, but i know what you mean.

What do you mean it could have been any of the protestors? It wasn't 'any' of them, it was the poor git that died. ONE poor unfortunate bloke, who was apparently in the wrong place at definately the wrong time.

What would you have the police do generally then? Go in without protection. Walking down the street in two's like dickson of dock green?

A few harsh words to calm the violent element of 'protesters'?

Could've, might've, etc doesn't apply, 'cos it wasn't! I could've been rich and powerfull, if i wasn't poor and powerless eh? Doesn't apply, it is what it is mate. One casualty of a heavy handed copper who should be investigated fully and properly, and if found guilty of manslaughter (NOT murder, as the copper would have had to INTEND to kill him for it to be murder mate) the copper should pay the same price any of us would pay if we were in the same boat.

My argument isn't whether or not this copper is guilty of this or that, it's more of tarring ALL police with the same brush.

Are all poor people scum? No.

Are all rich people scum? No.

Are all doctors murderers (Shipman, Crippin etc)? No.

Are all Nurses baby murderers (Haslett etc)?

And on, and on and on.

You see then, how rediculous blanket, sweeping statements are, but i suspect you're gonna keep on making them eh?

spikey.

reply to post by spikey

You don;t live in Florida do you?

Cops do things like that here a lot. I've lost track of how many have been fired for sex- and drug-related offenses, theft, extortion, assault and other acts in just the past three years, it is common to the point where it is a running joke among some cops over here to turn on the tv and see who is on that night. No, I am not kidding!

A longtime investigator in Daytona Beach with a reputation for threatening alleged suspects and members of the community was finally fired last year for....getting caught on camera forcing a store to provide him with free coffee every day. All it took was sending the tape out to a news station, not his superior. Nice!