F-16s Tracking Stolen Cessna

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


No, because in a plane you have a lot more to keep track of. You have to watch your flight instruments, watch for AAA/SAMs, watch your wingman, watch your fuel level, watch to make sure that you're within limits for weapons release, etc. Under mortar and 7.62 fire you only have a few things to watch out for. In a plane you lose track of your altitude, or don't watch for ground fire, you die. You misidentify your target flying at 400+ knots, you hit the wrong target. You've got about 10 more things to watch out for in a plane than you do on the ground under fire from the ground.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.



I never served in Iraq, btw.
But I do know what it is like. Albeit a little less intense, most likely.

PS - Tell all that to the point man and team leader of a building sweep and clear team.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

Since I helped take the thread a little off topic, I'd like to reiterate that I believe this was a false flag event.

This is further evidenced by the fact that the "perp" was a Turkish naturalized Canadian. Next we'll hear he was associated with Al Qaeda.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


And I'm not saying being on the ground is "easy". But they don't have as much to keep track of to keep alive. The biggest killer of pilots in combat is information overload and target fixation. How many ground casualties do you think there are from information overload? Yes ground infantry has to keep track of alot, but it doesn't come as fast and furious as it does to a combat pilot all the time.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Oh, come on dude. The majority of airflight troop casualties come because of the simple fact that they can't think quickly enough. No different than an infantry soldier.

Only difference is that when a pilot doesn't think quickly, he dies.

With a ground pounder, he only dies if the enemy can capitalize on his lack of IQ.

It isn't as if our Air Force is being shot down...

As an aside though, I would almost take your point as a concession that this is a military event considering your willingness to discuss it.

ok, not sure what all that has to do with this guy that stole the plane.
i'd like to hear more about him and his motives

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


I love that logic. I concede this is a military event because I want to show how wrong you are and how little you know about how the Air Force works? No, I don't. I don't concede anything of the sort.

And you just proved my point when you said a pilot doesn't pay attention he dies faster. Our air force isn't being shot down NOW, but they are still losing planes in Iraq. There was one at the end of 2007 where the pilot flew into the ground trying to fly a close air support mission.

Originally posted by aboxoftrix
ok, not sure what all that has to do with this guy that stole the plane.
i'd like to hear more about him and his motives

Yes, me too. I'd like to get an update on this guy and possible motives.

I'd also like one of those drinks that the cute girl is drinking in your avatar

There's something about this that really stanks.

First we hear that an assassination attempt on Obama was foiled in Turkey today (or last night). And now we hear about this guy from Turkey who became a Canadian and "tested" the USA air defense.

In all due respect, no real Canadian is going to steal a plane and go to the States with it unless he wants to end up in Gitmo. What a real Canadian would do if he stole the plane would be to fly to Calgary to watch the Flames game.

If they caught him in Calgary, they'd let him watch the game and after the game was over they'd kick his ass and say "get outta here ya crazy little bastard". Then they'd give him a rental car to get back to Ontario with, and a 24 of beer for the trip.

No.... something's very strange about this event. A real Canadian knows better than to pull a prank like this. The Turkey thing is just way too much co-incidence methinks.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Well, I was going to throw into the mix the percentages of Army Troop casualties pre 9-11 as an example. The vast majority were helicopter pilots.


However, and this is the point I'm trying to make here, that has changed. Now the majority of Army troop casualties comes way of roadside IEDs.
No different. It is a completely new element in regards to our casualties.

Like I said before, it all depends on intellictual quotient. How quickly can you either A) Identify a threat and neutralize it or B) How quickly can you F-UP and overlook something.

"We don't want to suppose the motive of the individual," Kucharek told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" after the landing. "But it certainly made a day for the professional pilots that were flying these missions and a very serious situation from a NORAD perspective."

Officials allowed the pilot "to play his hand" because they "[didn't] want to provoke the situation," Kucharek said.

A federal law enforcement official told CNN the pilot is a naturalized Canadian citizen, but declined to give his name or country of origin. The source said the pilot was a flight school student for a "brief" period and only clocked a few hours of flight time.

Canadian officials have received some information that the pilot is "not a happy individual," the official said.

www.cnn.com...

And you are damned right that the Infantry Soldiers of the US Army do not have it easy. They are Jacks of All Trades.
Forward observation.
First Aid.
Intimate Knowledge of Enemy Troop Strength, INCLUDING nomenclanture and specifics of enemy weapons systems.
React to Contact.
Initiate Contact.
Improvisational Combat Engineering.

And the list goes on.
They are ground pounders, they MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Mission Statemtent: "To close within and destroy the enemy. No matter the circumstances."

I know that the "in thing" is to instantly call everything is a false flag.
However, the fact that there are people in other countries that hate us
kind of tells me that just maybe this guy might have had some sinister motives. Hopefully we will get the full story soon.

Until then, I'll try not to automatically assume he is a Muslim extremists and
maybe others will try not to automatically assume this is a false flag.

Originally posted by Night Watchman

Originally posted by aboxoftrix
ok, not sure what all that has to do with this guy that stole the plane.
i'd like to hear more about him and his motives

Yes, me too. I'd like to get an update on this guy and possible motives.

I'd also like one of those drinks that the cute girl is drinking in your avatar

It was made in Brasil. I can't remember the name but I do remember it tasted very good.

anymore news on this guy yet?

reply to post by Zaydie


Sorry, but I called this as a false flag BEFORE they announced he was from Turkey.

1 for me... 0 for the other guys.
Not to toot my own horn, or anything.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

Originally posted by aboxoftrix

It was made in Brasil. I can't remember the name but I do remember it tasted very good.

anymore news on this guy yet?

Nothing yet but then again, we are closing in on midnight on the East Coast and all of the news networks go to reruns of the shows aired earlier this evening so we won't be getting anything more from them until the morning.

I'm scanning the radio talk shows to see if I can find additional details. I'll let you know if I hear anything more...

I come home from work, turn on CNN... theres my school right on the headlines... LMAO

Wow, I live in thunder bay, thats the funniest thing ever, I dont blame the guy like everyones unemployed in this city, big drunks, going nowhere, he probably just snapped cuz he couldnt find a job and just punked a plane... supposidly the keys are left in the ignition at the flight school... I donno I never walked down there, I just attend the actual college... never heard of the kid either, lol

reply to post by Spock Shock


The keys are just left in the ignition?

Where in the hell is this place again?
That aside, like has been mentioned by the very person who wishes to detract against me here, there is something awfully fishy about a pilot with 2 flight hours under his belt commadeering a plane with external fuel tanks and taking it for a 1800 NM cruise and landing it, without trouble, on a highway in Middle America...

I think some authorities need to be notified that the folks running that flight school are a bunch of idiots.

reply to post by Night Watchman


Thanks!
I'm still curious about his motive.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Yeah, s-dog.....me too.

A C-172 cruises at about 120K.

Fully dirtied up, I have no idea how slow an F-16 can fly without stalling.

Anyway....as Zaphod mentioned....UNLESS this airplane was equipped for a ferry-flight to deliver to another country, it certainly would NOT have seven hour's range! Especially when you consider the 'useful load' of a Cessna 172. A 'trainer' airplane? From a Flight School? (Note....when 'ferrying' with extra tanks it is requlated by a special 'permit' to exceed certain parameters, including max gross weight).

It's been, admittedly, a few decades....but as I recall the max gross T/O weight of a (normal) C-172 was 2,500 lbs. Newer models with fuel-injected engines, and more horsepower, may have had the GTW increased.

Empty weight of about 1600 lbs. Gives a useful load of not more than 900 lbs. Subtract people (200 lbs) and leaves 700lbs for fuel. The tanks held no more than 100 gallons when topped off....so that's 600 lbs of fuel.

With judicious leaning of the mixture, and at a high altitude (13,500 is advertised as the airplanes service ceiling....it says 12,000 at 55% power is most efficient) you might get aq 10g/p/h, or nearly 5+ hours until fuel exhaustion (more burn to climb to altitude....)

Side note to EVERY pilot nowadays....ALWAYS monitor VHF 121.5...because if you are intercepted, they will try to call you on that freq.

Also, you should check the AIM or your Jeppesen to review the hand signals, and the aircraft signals, for an intercept.