Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

No, no, no and NO!!!

Why adopt communism, when you can get them to let the banks fail!!!

Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Catholicism without hell - it just won't work!!!

[edit on 3/4/2009 by TailoredVagabond]

Communism is a fabrication of the Jesuits like Socialism, Democracy or whateverism. It's about a few controlling the many. Communism was promoted specifically to devastate basically healthy countries and facilitate their take over including the United States. People caught up in the communist ideals are exactly what has lead to the devastation of the USA. Joseph McCarthy was trying to stop that. Whether there is an "ideal" communism that sounds good, the bottom line is that over and over and over and over again it has been used to inspire people to self destruction.

Good points seem to exist in any approach but a Republic with minimum laws is the best. The problem has always been the leeches that infect a government and arrange for public works, social programs, legal systems, etc. that basically pay them for doing as little as possible. Taking away the "law" making power and putting everything on a donation basis without interest seems like a better direction to go. Get rid of the concept of being "governed" and limit the power and influence of banks. Get ride of most of what passed for laws which is really just tribute payments to the leeches. The Illuminati/NWO are really nothing but a pack of low bread leeches that get suckered generation after generation into believing in their righteous superiority and entitlement.

A kind of hibrid Republic is the way to go. Something that abolishes "governing" in general but also limits excess. The "Federal Government", for example, shouldn't really exists. The "Fed" relationship to states should be one of recommendation not authority. It should have zero dictatorial authority. The FBI might be some kind of overseer service but they should only recommend action to the state. They should have no authority to enter a state and abduct a person living there. The National Forest service shouldn't exists. The Feds should suggest to a state areas to be preserved and even facilitate pooling of national income to support national treasures. But it should be up to the state to agree to allocate public trust lands as a preserve under the states authority. There is no need for a federal authority. We will always be fighting the leeches. The goal is to figure how to most completely neuter them.

I think debt slavery makes it difficult for most of us to grasp what it would be like to have sufficiency. To have real choices to spend our time thinking or inventing or composing or creating or serving. We need to view the world from high ideals of moderation and virtue not me, me, me selfish indulgence. Minimum laws won't mean minimum virtue. It means fully respecting natural laws of not harming others, their property or misleading them in agreements. Today, these virtues of law are completely violated by every aspect of the "System" down to local government. In particular misleading people in agreements is violated by practically every "Law" on the books.

OMG, seriously people do some research. Count66 makes the most sense here, yet people are calling him lazy, not innovative etc.

Capitalism isn't working at all, its an illusion. Become mindful and knowledgeable before acting as if you know anything. I am not an advocate for communism, but in its true form it will sort out many of the problems we have today and limit the power of the elite. Yes the New World Order Conspiracies, not that many of you will believe them despite being on this site.

In Capitalism, you become rich by taking advantage of others. Not that often by being highly motivated and innovative. Human Nature, I heard someone say it was Human Nature that caused us to be like we are... I'd love someone to find some proof on that statement, our minds are completely controlled and forced to be within a tiny sphere of perception. That's conditioning and propaganda, not human nature. We have something over animals, that is freedom of the mind. 97% of people do not use it at all, they don't even know there not using it due to the perception they are restricted too. Mindlessness has been conditioned and most people don't even know.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Yes, you have outed me as the anarchist that I am.

The school - media systems teach that communism is way on the left and fascism is way on the right, but the reality is that communism & fascism are exactly the same form of left (oligarchy) government. The far right is no government(anarchy) The creamy middle is a republic(govern by consensual law)

I think a republic with a strong set of ideals is the most trust worth form of government.

although I am partial to a government that would work by bottom up governance ...like Ebay, where there is central administration but the power lies with the end users

It is the concept of a central controlled government with out an opt out
for the participants that I distrust.

Its like you are forced to play a game which you do not like or understand the rules and a special group gets to decide who wins

Why not have a christian country instead wuth Jesus as head of the state!

The biggest mistake of communism was that it not renounce "money".



Look at China.
China if they want to they can produce tvs or washing machines for every person on the planet. If they "want" to they could build houses for 6 billion people. But that strength - to produce stuff is dependant on the money creators. It's useless. Only if the money creators lend money to some slaves that will buy that stuff, only then it will be produced.

I hope they get smart and use what they produce for themselves, and for free. Just give it to the people who produce the goods, no money involved. Leave the rest of the world trapped by the money creators to produce their own if they want to. Or go hungry and homeless because they lack green pieces of paper.

Imagine a war starting. Then money would not matter. See how Russia behaved in WW2. When money did not matter anymore, only survival, they started producing at a rate they would have never achieved in a money and "profit" system. If money (and the Sith lords) are out of the equation, each person on the planet could have a shelter, clean water, food and so on.

Also I opened a thread about a society with no "money" here
www.abovetopsecret.com...












[edit on 3-4-2009 by pai mei]

Communism?

Do you like being free?

Communism does NOT and WILL NEVER WORK! I thought all you people who voted for Obama-nation would of realized this.

Communism seeks to create a two class society 1. The elite 2. and the poor. you think the so called elite are in control now? if you had communism the situation would be worse!

Communism economies almost always collaose unless they hybridize like china. as you oppress and diminish the working class, the economy starts to tank as everyone is supported by the gov. but no one supports the gov.

Do not mistake capitalism with democracy or communism with dictatorship.

Real communism never existed. Just a bunch of totalitarian regimes. See my above post.

Originally posted by Deimos760

Capitalism isn't working at all, its an illusion.

In Capitalism, you become rich by taking advantage of others... our minds are completely controlled and forced to be within a tiny sphere of perception. That's conditioning and propaganda, not human nature. We have something over animals, that is freedom of the mind. 97% of people do not use it at all, they don't even know there not using it due to the perception they are restricted too. Mindlessness has been conditioned and most people don't even know.

This is an excellent point !

I would agree that capitalism is an illusion or simply a theory of applied principles....but it is working.

Capitalism works from an ego based reality not a conscious(ethical) based reality

The capitalist benefits from capitalism without creating any goods or services
RED FLAG !!! This is a system of domination.

The goal of a capitalist is to create capital(wealth), then to use that wealth to create more wealth.

Capitalism is usury by design. Capital or currency is created by interest from the creation of credit. The Capitalist makes profit from the extra work that the debtor needs to perform to pay the interest on the credit

The interest creates inflation which devalues the currency and forces the debtor to perform more work to equate the lost value of the currency created by the inflation

Then the currency is manipulated by the capitalist money makers(central banks) to either encourage(boom) or discourage(recession) more credit creation.

The cure for capitalism is not socialism.

Socialism replaces a debt usury system with a human resource usury system. Each participant is obligated to perform a job created by the people (state) to serve the people (state).

Socialism is the same forced servitude(domination) with out the capitalistic illusion of independence and wealth and no alternative to the system

How about a free market illusion where we can participate by trading our ideas and labor for what ever we as individuals agree is a fair trade

This market could use a system of exchange(like money) but the money would have a fixed rate and no usury interest would be permitted

You could lend money but only for the purpose of progress not to foment a domination culture

I agree that what is proposed in Marx's manifesto is not the communism that was put in place in Soviet Russia nor China nor any other country that has been labeled "communist."

I think the fatal flaw in the system, as it is in a capitalist system, is that man is basically a corrupt individual. It is so easy, when high position is attained, to enrich oneself at the expense of others. I believe it is inherent in any present socio-economic system. Mix in a little totalitarianism and that is a recipe for oppression.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Thats socialism not communism.

My thread is debating communism - under communism - there are no taxes, the wealth you generate in your factory is distributed to the workers in that factory - think of a co-op that runs on a multinational level. At the moment the shareholders get all that wealth that you generate - my question to you is - why should that be the case - why can't you get that share which is what communism says.

You still have to work to receive that distribution of wealth from your factory or your company - only those who cannot work for legitimate reasons such as disability or retired workers would be maintained by the rest of us - but the difference is - is that they would be maintained at the same level as the rest of us and not forced to live in sub standard conditions through no fault of their own making

Socialism is the road to communism, Karl Marx himself said as such.

Groupthink, the individual being cast out and absorbed into some commune to be brainwashed into this would be my idea of hell on earth. Just ask the POWs who were captured by the Koreans.

Your ideal is like a capitalism fused together with communism, but dressed up to make it sound sexy and appealing.

Look, you can never physically have a system where everyone puts in and takes out equally, humankind has too many parasites and free-loaders along with corruption to do that.
It is also very important to note that there are too many people on this earth for one communal system.

Person A puts in 3 objects to the big pot, and person parasite comes along and takes 10 objects out of the pot.

There's a reason the capitalist system is in place, IT WORKS!
It's been going on since the year dot and you traded with someone for something else.
There are people out there who are inherently attuned to being socialist, it's in their nature.

Just as there those (like myself) who are inherently attuned to libertarian ideals and conservancy. These are just as capable and effective in defeating or at least impacting the PTB if everyone started acting responsibly and not being so wasteful.

The reason all this palaver about the negative capitalism is buzzing around is because the fat cats and PTB have dropped a bollock and now we're all suffering from it.
However, that does not mean capitalism is inherently evil or bad, just that the resources have been mis-managed and balance messed with.

Responsibility is where the success of capitalism comes in, if you're responsible and careful with cash and what you do with it, then you don't have all this problem with lack of cash and so on.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


Actually I would be considered quite successful in my career field so wrong assumption my friend on so many levels.

I just realise that the current system is unfair - wealth cannot be really generated by any individual when 10% of the world already control 85% of the assets and therefore the playing pitch is unfair from the get go.

Communism is not about laziness - only people who work get fruit from their labour - those vunerable in society are not penalised for not being able to work though, e.g. the disabled and the aged. The more you work the more you earn as all the profits from your company or factory are distributed among the workers rather then the shareholders - therefore communism gives true reward for your hard work rather then a lazy shareholder gaining the profits as occurs under capitalism.

Secondly communism doesn't advocate the centralisation of power for any length of time - power should be sourced at the worker level, e.g. each company votes to elect a leader who then votes to elect a senator who then votes to elect a president. Each member of that governmental system can be subject to immediate recall by another vote demanding same at any time and therefore it is true democracy in action rather then the current centralisation of power for five years in the hands of a few people which cannot be made to answer for their policies until the next election.

Thirdly many people mistakenly confuse communism with autocratic socialist states like North Korea and China - this mistake is akin to me confusing democracy with Nazi Germany

We already have the basic premise for the system.

Under the Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx advocates the centralisation of wealth and the creation of a national bank (commonly known: central bank)

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


People would still become doctors, lawyers etc - the only difference is we wouldn't pay them €1 million dollars a year to do it.

Why should someone own 5 cars, 4 houses and earn piles of money because they were gifted with slightly more intelligence then someone else.

Of course they should get paid slightly better but not to the extent where they amass resources that they don't need while other people go hungry and homeless.

Anyways any doctor who believes that another should go homeless so he can have a holiday home in the hamptons is not worthy of the name doctor.

reply to post by NWRHINO


Communism is a societal model which contains elements of economics and the localisation of government.

Capitalism is an economic system which has become a governmental system.

reply to post by MattMulder


Communism removes the right of people to own far more then they ever need.

The private property you say you worked so hard and fought for has ended up in the control of 10% of the worlds population - so you are living in an illusion.

Secondly, when you talk about big brother, are you talking about a system which can spy on your phone calls, read your emails and texts, forces you to carry Biometric ID when you travel - thats not communism - thats capitalism.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Exactly, then everyone gets lazy and nobody works, everyone gets a car even if they don't work, then the Islamists take over and its not very good. I also don't want to wear a helmut of any kind, research shows that if you wear a helmut you get even lazier and your brain gets stupider by the resultings. NO thank you socialistisms! I prefer my job at walmart and my other job at mcdonalds thank you much!

Socialistisms? Resultings? I think someone really needs to take their "helmut" off...or their McDonalds cap...

I don't think people would "get lazy". A lot of people (not me, admittedly) love their jobs and see them as a 'calling'. Those of us in crappy jobs may actually be less disenchanted and actually more productive...

better wages = better standard of living = happier existence!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Communism, like many 'isms', are ideals and regrettably ideals and reality seldom mix. A communist world would be beneficial to everyone (well, except the very rich) but as has been said, for communism to work it would take a massive united effort from everyone in every country on Earth. Unfortunately that's never going to be allowed to happen, as the PTB will just engineer strife to ensure their capitalist 'war economies' continue to flourish. I used to hope that one day we'd all be enjoying a 'Star Trek' utopian existence, but then I read "The Report From Iron Mountain"...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_ironmountain0.htm

which (hoax or not) crushed my dreams

reply to post by Northern Raider


Firstly I'm European and as such lived very near the old Iron curtain and again you seem to be confusing autocratic socialism with communism. Please remember that Stalin and Mao sponsored most of the so called communist revolutions and therefore only supported people who were like minded and wanted to establish the socialist autocracies that Stalin and Mao had done.

Secondly nearly all of the countries you speak off now have voted the old socialist parties back into power as they are much worse off under capitalism then they were under autocratic socialism.

Thirdly, there was a true communist country for the first 10 years of the Soviet Union before it was crushed by the powers that be with their vicious war - look at the huge strides that were made under Lenin and Trotsky before the war allowed Stalin to come to power - even Lenin before his death tried to prevent the ascent of Stalin as he knew it was the end of the revolution.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

He wants to tax the rich and upper middle class to pay the poor (lazy) - SOCIALISM.

Do you happen to be rich or upper middle class? Or just plain ignorant, because that statement is frankly offensive! Most poor people are poor because of circumstances like poor education in their area, they can only get the most demeaning crappy jobs, working long hours for low pay, yet they still manage (for the most part) to do them to a reasonably high standard. Not everyone is able to go to university and get a job sitting on their ass all day in an office doing not much for too much!