The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

reply to post by JoshNorton


That's not good. It should have been removed.
That's weird, whenever I alert something like that it's always removed.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Your right people take on a subject they believe in it as fact,And anyone challenging there belief they see it as a personal attack. The other problem is in todays society people honestly believe they have the right not to be offended. However in order to give an individual this right we have to take it away from someone else. No one has the right not to be offended people have different views and will you will all ways find something that offends you.

Some how along the way society has started a politically correct culture and all this leads to is problems being buried and not discussed i would hate to see that happen here.

[edit on 3/29/09 by dragonridr]

I think you need to make youre mind up.

Either you want us to complain threw the right channels or you dont?

I once said in a thread to the OP that had stated it "why didnt you just stay in bed today?"

They had made a thread that was obversely made with the intent to course offense, and was just a pointless waste of time baiting thread.

But instead of running to the mods and saying "Boo hoo the bad man is saying nastsy things". I made the above coment " Why didnt you just stay in bed today"

By the way there whole thread was trashed and i was punished with a points deduction for my comment.

For people like myself youre are making it harder and harder for us to post.

Its like you can do this, you can do that ,you cant do this,you cant do that, and good forbid if you tell someone there being a jerk, when they are being a jerk and there whole intention is to be a jerk and disrupt.

In any disscusion ive ever had in real life at some point someone has said "dont be such a jerk or words to that affect."

I guess ill stick to reading threads/posts and forget about posting or contributing,because quite frankly im scared to open my mouth of late for fear of reprisals and punishment.


"Keep up the good work"

most of the frustration i come across is in the political posts. i for one have tried to be less critical. it is only when out and out lies are posted and nobody refutes them, that i become..well...for a better term "type happy". i'm starting to stay away from the political posts, simply from the fact that they are largely about members saying anything to get a response, for their own self-serving satisfaction. it turns into a diatribe about people, rather than a discussion about ideas.

Yeah, I am still a little burnt about my "Circles Of Light" thread being moved over the Skunk Works, I still have no idea why the mods were involved in that one.

I mean, I believe they are created by UFO like crop circles, and I said nothing in there that indicated that were hoaxed, and someone actually filed a complaint it was in the UFO, and to move it to Skunk Works, that was very mean of that complaint giver.

And everytime I love in, and I see that in Skunk Works, and I think, if I make a post, will someone else over react and just get me put in there again without even being contacted first, and asked for details. It just seems that some of the older members here complain and it just gets done, and I never really got an explanation why.

So OP, I am glad you admins are looking at this, cause this is a terrific board, but when such a innocuous post was moved to Skunk Works for no reason, and with no recourse, I almost left the board, I just felt that people were way to reactionary, if that makes sense.

Project Camelot got an issue like that on the go over there. New net users who have no idea of the tickle up approach of the Internet as admins, how out of the rubble there is a process of boiling up the truth, or a greater truth, and you need the rubble as a foundation. They are looking for an authority, and really the Internet it is self policed through flaming to a degree, preferably in a nice way.

However with so many new people on the net without taking the time to find out the history, they have some very strange ideas, like, who is responsible for the web anyway. Well, you are, and everyone on it.

I tend to agree with what you're saying, but I would like to point out one particular, irritating point: religion. I'm an atheist, but regardless, I don't mind discussing religion with open-minded people. But what really annoys me and, as I've noticed, a lot of people, it the zealots who incorporate the bible into everything.

Things like the photo of a UFO becomes a sign from god as predicted in revelations (guess what? No UFOs in revelations). Someone scratched his cat's back and the cat saw a ghost; it's something from Mathew, etc. etc.

It's completely ridiculous and has been popping up lateley all over the place (maybe the economic crisis has a lot of people running to religion and, as they don't understand most of it, they think it's everywhere). It's one of the reasons I rarely post anymore and don't spend half the time on this site as I used to.

Again, I'm not against a religious debate, but it has it's place and shouldn't be all over the place. I'm sure there are religious sites with forums just for these kind of people.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Why do people spend all their free time on conspiracy sites if they don't believe in conspiracies?

Believe it or not, there are indeed people who are deeply interested in conspiracies, but do not believe everything is a conspiracy. Additionally, there are conspiracy theorists who, at times, appear to come across as dedicated debunkers from time to time in an effort to whittle the huge tree of information down to the sliver of truth.

Fair enough, but there are several "debunkers" in the 9/11 forum who've never posted anywhere on ATS except the 9/11 forum -- every single day. As much as I'm interested in the truth about 9/11, I can go months without posting anything about it. I truly wonder how anyone could spend that much time and effort defending what has literally become indefensible. I think Scientology is a fraud, but I'm sure not gonna spend my life on LRonHubbard.com trying to convert the faithful.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I assume you think Im one of them too, and its think its frowned upon because there is no logic behind your assumption. Just because someone debates strongly against a conspiracy, and/ or disagrees with you, does not mean that they are a shrill.

And just because someone's post is beneath yours doesn't mean they're referring to you. In any case, I don't think you're a 'shrill.'

Assuming you're a real weatherman, why would you be any different than the local weathermen where I live -- the nation's second sunniest city -- telling local residents that the next five days will be "partially cloudy?"

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

And just because someone's post is beneath yours doesn't mean they're referring to you. In any case, I don't think you're a 'shrill.'

Ah the smell of lying in the afternoon... or was that typo deliberate? Because you DO think he is a shill! (minus the r)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OZWeatherman strenuously insists he's not a government shill, but threads like this make me think otherwise.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Chadwickus]

ATS is the first discussion board I ever participated on... and I loved it from the start, and still do.

Growing up with no computers, most "discussions" became fist-fights!!! (insert black-eyed icon here)!

Since that's not an option here, words are the fists, and only the spineless seem to get bruised. But I find myself unwilling to engage a fellow member who starts down the road of angry, emotionally-charged attacks, or heated challenges; so typically I don't respond.

Which makes me a spineless blogger, doesn't it?

reply to post by Chadwickus

How nice -- my own cyber-stalker!

Thank you as there is much here that needed to be said.

Challenging someone with a differing viewpoint isn't an ad hominem attack and never will be.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


No stalking here.

It's just us "shills" have gotta watch each others back is all.

OR, I'm calling you out for calling anyone who disagrees with you a shill.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by doctordoom
Chadwick? Is there any conspiracy in the world you believe in, or is EVERYTHING the government does legit and awesome.

What a shill.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure Chadwick still believes the JFK Magic Bullet Theory. Mega-shill.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by GoldenFleece You sound like that tiresome shill Chadwickus who thinks governments couldn't be this evil.

Seeing a theme here... Oh and I never bothered to report these incidents.

In fact I think the OP title should be changed to "It takes a spine to question 'truthers' because they will cry disinfo agent or shill all the time"








[edit on 30-3-2009 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Let's separate the men from the boys around here baby.
I would have you all in tears and I am female,

So am I. We could form a two woman tag team. OMG .. fun!
Like I said ... I know it can't be done ... but it would be such fun!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

No stalking here.

It's just us "shills" have gotta watch each others back is all.

You're doing a fine job.

Thanks for this SO. I don't know what it is, but I am also guilty of running to the mods and crying foul on a few occasions. Only in the last year or so. There was a time when I enjoyed a bit of rough and tumble on the ol' ATS. In the past year or so, I think I've become a bit of a wimp. That alert button, it's just so tempting.

I'd see a post that I found disagreeable and go: "Nyeh, I don't find that appropriate." Bang, I hit that alert button and go on my merry way reading threads. Rather than actually engage.

So thanks for the wake-up call and forcing us all to take a good look at ourselves and suggesting that we, as we say in OZ, "Harden the **** up!"

I'll bet you guys had no idea what you were getting yourselves into when you decided to start up this board!
Working with "the public" on an everyday basis is one of the most difficult things to have to do, and that is essentially what you have here.

While I believe most people are well intentioned, many simply are not and get their kicks from hurting or insulting others. Even the well intentioned ones mess up on a fairly regular basis and say or do things they soon regret.

We come svelt and fat, smart and ignorant, helpful and destructive, and all variations in between.
People are potentially the source of the greatest fascination and pleasure, or the absolute worst horror.

This board is all of that. You have your job cut out for you here, trying to keep it all civil. I'll give you credit for trying.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
...but there are several "debunkers" in the 9/11 forum who've never posted anywhere on ATS except the 9/11 forum -- every single day.

Just as some conspiracy theorists are obsessed with one particular topic, so are groups of "debunkers." No matter the topic or apparent agenda, those who challenge our concepts and theories are important to us.

SO,

This is the best ATS-related thread I've seen since becoming a member.

Bravo for taking the bull by the horns--or perhaps it's a bull without horns?--and calling upon members to defend their positions and not their vanity.

Thanks for a refreshing, clear-headed, and sensible post.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Just as some conspiracy theorists are obsessed with one particular topic, so are groups of "debunkers." No matter the topic or apparent agenda, those who challenge our concepts and theories are important to us.

Indeed.

Sir, I second the motion Certain parts of the board have been hijacked by cult-like mentality, who will not accept criticism or another point of view (9/11 truth movement.)

The churlish behaviour of Alex Jones, in my opinion, has spread across the conspiracy field - that is, you are with us or against us. Fear of "the other" is turning a once elegant, enlightened and intelligent community into a paranoid hate group.

It is not the conspiracy theory, per say, that is the problem - it's the individuals who defend or countermand the positions.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

I saw a post that said "I think all ____ should be killed". I hit the alert button because I consider any such blanket statement about a group, be it race, religion, creed, sexual orientation or other association, to be hate speech.

I would have guessed that as hate speech too. I wouldnt necessarily hit the alert button, it would totally depend on the rest of the thread. (if they were saying all serial killers should be killed, or all pedophiles, I would have a hard time reporting that, even though I am not for the death penalty) But I am surprised that wasnt removed as a hate speech violation.

I think for me the line on groups and "all" speech, is did the member of said group choose to be in that group or was it beyond their control? If it is a group you are born into, an ethnic group, a gender, a disability, etc., and it generally offends me when people do the whole "all x are y" type statements. But if it is a group you choose to be in, (ie; Nazis, serial killers, peace activists, a religion, etc.) I cut more slack. I dont often report the former, I usually argue against it myself, but I might if it were bad enough.

I think thats one thing people could realize, it isnt always the person frothing at the mouth that makes hate speech really uncomfortable. What bothers me the most is all the reasonable people in the thread who do not condemn it. I have been in women bashing threads where some pretty outrageous things are said, like "when the SHTF I will be happy knowing women will be the first to die" or something very close, and what I found most disturbing was that no one condemned it.

I think we forget sometimes that just adding our voice against an -ism, be is racism, sexism, whatever, is our own responsibility. Sometimes those who are just spewing hate do so because they assume that if no one protests, they are speaking for the silent ones too.

I think we all need to do more with civil social pressure, and not just wait for the "authorities" to step in. And that applies on and off the boards.

Edit to add;

And I do not mean you have to "forum gang" them with equally nasty attack, it could be as simple as saying "thats not cool" or "I disagree" or just calling it racism, etc.


[edit on 30-3-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]