Dec. 12th, 2012 - 3.5 years = June 23, 2009

I'll start by saying that I don't have any strong feelings on this and I haven't been led by "spirit guides" or anything, but just going from what I've read.

So Dec. 12th has been called many things including a new age for man or maybe total destruction. Let's say for my scenario that it's the exact dead center of the Tribulation.

Background info on the Trib (from what I have read). The Tribulation is a time of upheaval in the Christian teachings (not necessarily the Bible). It's supposed to last 7 years with the first half as the coming of the Anti-Christ to power and the last half as the Anti-Christ ruling ending in the Battle of Armageddon.

A little addition to the Trib. Some Christians (known as Pre-Tribs) believe that God will pull Christians from Earth before any of this starts. This is the Rapture. Others believe that this Rapture will happen at the half-way point (mid-Tribs) and yet others believe it will happen at the end (Post-Tribs).

So I was just thinking of combining the two thoughts.

If you believe that Dec. 21st 2012 is the exact mid-point of the Tribulation, that would make the start date right at June 23rd, 2009.

Note. I am not making any predictions. I am not saying "better get ready!". I'm just saying that IF something is up with the 2012 date, June 23rd, 2009 is exactly 3.5 years before.

Thoughts?

I almost started a thread about this very subject a year ago.

I agree, and even though I think there is more to it than that, I think that it is an idea.

I thought that when Hillary was made Sec. State.

I remember calculating this a long long time ago when I first started reading on 2012, but back then it was so long from that point that I kind of forgot about it.

Funny. Now it's knocking on our front door. And it's not Domino's.

The exact date you post in relation to 2012, December 21, 2012 is a Mayan prophesy. This prophesy was written thousands of years ago, in fact, long before Jesus or Christianity ever existed.

What makes you, and other Christians who try to rap their dogma, into this MAYAN prophesy think it has anything to do with religion? Is the year 2012 ever written in the New or Old testament anywhere?

The Mayans were speaking about spirituality, but they were also speaking about science (astronomy). They were actually able to understand the moon's cycle, as well as many other astronomical facts, with much greater accuracy than anyone else for thousands of years.

Whatever 2012 is going to be (if anything at all), I really doubt it will have anything to do with some fairy tail in an old book.

Let the Religulous (thank you Bill Maher) ranting begin!

reply to post by finemanm


You're not going to get any ranting from me, but I am compelled to ask a question.

Is that Mayan predicted date SOOOO sacred to you that it can't coincide with a belief from another belief system?

Personally, I am willing to combine any truths I can find from ALL belief systems. Why do you feel like combining anything Christian related with any other belief system is more of an overlay instead of a combination.

Did I at any time say that Christ appeared to the Mayans and instructed them to write this date or anything close to that? Absolutely not.

Why would you feel so instantly defensive if I choose to combine these predicted events?

Continue with thoughts, please.

reply to post by finemanm


this is in a prediction & prophecies forum there's really no need for that kind of talk (where's the decorum) it's all pure speculation ... haha and yes if you want to say the whole jesus and christianity thing, then you'll have to remember that 'god' created 'everything' so ... ya, not bashing you just got to look at it from a christian's pov.

on topic: i really have no clue about the whole 3.5 years thing i think it's an interesting prediction that the beginning of the 'tribulation' will begin on 2012 ... i never really thought about it like that ...

Originally posted by finemanm
The exact date you post in relation to 2012, December 21, 2012 is a Mayan prophesy. This prophesy was written thousands of years ago, in fact, long before Jesus or Christianity ever existed.

What makes you, and other Christians who try to rap their dogma, into this MAYAN prophesy think it has anything to do with religion? Is the year 2012 ever written in the New or Old testament anywhere?

The Mayans were speaking about spirituality, but they were also speaking about science (astronomy). They were actually able to understand the moon's cycle, as well as many other astronomical facts, with much greater accuracy than anyone else for thousands of years.

Whatever 2012 is going to be (if anything at all), I really doubt it will have anything to do with some fairy tail in an old book.

Let the Religulous (thank you Bill Maher) ranting begin!

I couldn´t agree more! This whole 2012 DEC 21st rubbish makes me just sad and sad again. Several thousands of people have followed the agenda that this very date should mean something extraordinary and probably the end of the world...

Allow me to gasp!

The real and ONLY truth about this date is that the mayan zodiac ends this very day and a new begins which will last another 25800 years probably. Nothing else! It´s like new years eve...just another day...
There are NO proven facts that his event should be otherwise, none, zip!

Of course!
True he mayan calendar we enter a new age of good which is the age of aquarius which means that we leave this age we´re livin in which is considered by several religious belifes like the Veda and old norse religion a dark time of humanity. (Gee, I wonder why:@@

So you 2012 guys...relax and concentrate on the real problems instead and the earth probably will be a better place. Or if you just do whats suggested maybe means that we alter our time and smothly pass in to the age of aquarius.

It would seem that this topic is fairly polorizing. I don't think it has to be this way. I personally don't feel that you have to choose one or the other.

I find the 2012 thing interesting. I find the considerations of the Tribulation interesting also. All the more so if you combine them.

Thanks for your comments so far. Keep them coming!

Originally posted by baseball101
reply to post by finemanm

 

this is in a prediction & prophecies forum there's really no need for that kind of talk (where's the decorum) it's all pure speculation ... haha and yes if you want to say the whole jesus and christianity thing, then you'll have to remember that 'god' created 'everything' so ... ya, not bashing you just got to look at it from a christian's pov.

First of all, there are 1.1 billion of us on this planet that don't believe in any religion or that some mythical creature called god created anything. link

But that aside, you are free to have your beliefs, but this whole 2012 thing is a Mayan calendar issue that revolves around astrology and science (granted, some very old science).

IF something where to happen in 2012, I "believe" it would have an astrological origin, e.g. solar storms, etc..., because the Mayans were making this prediction using their calendar which is based upon astrology.

More over, I think 12/21/12 will pass just like 1/1/00 did, except, in 2000 I was drinking champagne and ringing in the new year. On 12/21/12 I'll probably be watching TV on the couch.

Really, what does it matter whose point of view you hold when looking at someone else's calender? If I believe that we are a bunch of sea monkeys in some kids science experiment, does that change the fact that March has 31 days in it?

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


I believe the Mayans were smarter than us, even 500 years or so after their sad demise. Its too bad that none of them are left that know the ancient knowledge of the stars. What is bad, is that once we get past December 21st, 2012 their calendar will probably be fairly useless, and that is a sad thought.

I don't think anything will happen 3.5 years before the start. Probably for 7 years afterwards though. Your thread is interesting.

I'm saying that you do not have to believe in the precepts of Chistianity to ponder a mildly possible connection. Just ponder.

I'm not here to shove anything on anyone. It was late and I was just doing a little date math.

reply to post by finemanm


couldn't agree more ... i don't think the whole 2012 thing's going to happen ... i just enjoy reading everyone's theories and looking at all the different people's perspective's ...

off topic: the one thing i don't understand are the people who truly believe the world's going to end yet are still posting on here, i just think to myself you shouldn't be on here! haha you should be enjoying the last 3 years of your life!

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
I'm saying that you do not have to believe in the precepts of Chistianity to ponder a mildly possible connection. Just ponder.

Dude, I'm not trying to attack you, but what connection? For a connection there has to be something to connect.

The biblical end of days prophesy as written by St. John the Apostil, doesn't specify when this is supposed to happen. In fact, this section of the New Testament is so cryptically written, it is difficult to know what was meant by John.

Maybe Christianity is right. Maybe I am doomed to eternal damnation, but 2012 has nothing to do with Christian Armageddon. Most scholars of Mayan civilization will tell you that the end of the Mayan calendar wasn't necessarily meant to coincide with an END of the world. Mayans actually believed that it would be a transition to a new era of enlightenment.

Its called the long count, and when one ends, a new one begins.

Originally posted by finemanm
Dude, I'm not trying to attack you, but what connection? For a connection there has to be something to connect.

Ok. Here's the connection (or maybe just a coincidence). The current state of affairs in this country and the world appear to be getting worse. I'm not saying this as some Johnny-come-lately. I've been watching the world stage for a while and notice in my lifetime, this is an acceleration of events.

My connection is mearly a speculation on an event that I believe is coming (Tribulation) and an event that many others believe is coming (2012).

It's more like This Day In History. The only connection is that both events are date oriented and MAY coincide.

You're right about Revelation. No date is mentioned, but the duration is (according to some).

[edit on 29-3-2009 by WickettheRabbit]

I just want to add one more thing about the Christian End of Days prophesy, and I'm going to sleep.

A lot of scholars who have sought to understand what was meant by the passages in the New Testament state that at the time of John’s and Peter’s writings, the early Christians and Jews were persecuted by the Roman Empire. It was dangerous to advocate for the destruction of Rome, so the writers of the time had to use code. Many people interoperate John’s writings about the End of Days to be more of an incitement towards resistance against their current oppressors.

For Jews, which is what the early Christians were, Babylon was an evil force. In Jewish history, Babylon expelled the Israelites from their home land and forced them to live in Babylon (modern day Iraq).

When John was speaking about Babylon (as per many scholars and historians in the field), he was referring to Rome. I found a quote doing a quick google search which speaks to this interpretation.

As noted above, the standard scholarly interpretation is that Babylon symbolises Rome and the "Whore of Babylon" therefore either refers to the Roman emperor, or personified the power of the Roman Empire under whom many early Christians and Jews were persecuted, tortured, and marytred for their beliefs because they would not submit to the Roman Emperor as a god. Many scholars believe that the early Christians used "Babylon" as a euphemism for pagan Rome, so that their small community wouldn't be found out and persecuted even more.

Thus, if you are looking for End of Days prophesy in the Judeo Christian tradition, you would probably be better served looking for it in Deuteronomy or Isaiah, as John may have really been weaving those earlier themes into an anti-Rome manifesto.

With that, I bid you good night and good luck.

reply to post by finemanm

The Mayans were speaking about spirituality, but they were also speaking about science (astronomy). They were actually able to understand the moon's cycle, as well as many other astronomical facts, with much greater accuracy than anyone else for thousands of years.

It would actually be quite interesting to attempt a comprehensive Greek vs. Mayan Astronomical Face Off. Neither civilization were slouches when it came to tracking the movements of the heavens. For instance, the Mayan's were the only pre-telescopic society to identify something "amiss" about the Orion Nebula - I.E. that it wasn't just some ordinary star. However the Greeks were the first civilization to correctly postulate a heliocentric model of the solar system. While the Mayan's excelled at tracking the precise movements of the Moon, the Greeks knew about how far away it was, how big it was, and how fast it was traveling.

Mayan culture spans several thousand years, but they did not hit their "golden era" until about the start of the third century. It was at this time that the Hellenistic Era was ending, and all but a few tattered vestagates of the Library of Alexandria were lost.

The problem is, we don't know when or how the Mayan cosmology came together. Was it early in their history, 1,000 BC - or closer to their apex some 300~1,000 AD? Despite having a written language, their record keeping seems rather poor. It may also be partially due to the religious beliefs interwoven into their understanding of astronomy that preventing specific scholars and logical deduction from being revealed. The Greeks, on the other hand, keep detailed records giving names, dates, hypothesis, evidence, etc. Much of this was lost to history with the various library burnings either due to religion or conquest. However some of it remains offer tantalizing clues.

For instance, Archimedes wrote:

You King Gelon are aware the 'universe' is the name given by most astronomers to the sphere the center of which is the center of the Earth, while its radius is equal to the straight line between the center of the Sun and the center of the Earth. This is the common account as you have heard from astronomers. But Aristarchus has brought out a book consisting of certain hypotheses, wherein it appears, as a consequence of the assumptions made, that the universe is many times greater than the 'universe' just mentioned. His hypotheses are that the fixed stars and the Sun remain unmoved, that the Earth revolves about the Sun on the circumference of a circle, the Sun lying in the middle of the orbit, and that the sphere of fixed stars, situated about the same center as the Sun, is so great that the circle in which he supposes the Earth to revolve bears such a proportion to the distance of the fixed stars as the center of the sphere bears to its surface.

I'm not sure if I would be willing to participate, should such a face-off occur, but I would love to watch the proceedings should both sides have well prepared and well educated debaters supporting their arguments. Hopefully it would at least pull the Mayans a bit out of the "mystical - alien given revelations of heavens" quagmire they've found themselves in should we adequately display that other civilizations, such as the Hellenistic Greeks were capable similar or equally amazing discoveries.

Ok. Here's the connection (or maybe just a coincidence). The current state of affairs in this country and the world appear to be getting worse. I'm not saying this as some Johnny-come-lately. I've been watching the world stage for a while and notice in my lifetime, this is an acceleration of events.

My connection is mearly a speculation on an event that I believe is coming (Tribulation) and an event that many others believe is coming (2012).

Yep...speculations...
And thats just the thing fueling the 2012 panic like I would call it. Last fresh memory I have of a similar event was when year 2000 was about to be unleashed... People couldn´t even count to 2000...

Year 2000 actually ocured in 2001! Zero is not a number...

And if you should refer to any point in religious books of any kind to verify any 2012 armageddon event you won´t find any at all. Believe me, many have tried to find facts in textures that support an upcoming event and yes they have found it but the closest to a date occuring is only a guess based on the first and last years on the shift between the age of pescis(fishes) and aquarius.
Nothing is held for certain!

AND the only mention about this upcoming event is that "A great awakening is coming to the human race". Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry to dissapoint you mate and the rest of the 2012 followers.

Maybe we revolt against the NWO and put a freemasondisclosure to the people, maybe we...on and on and on...

Why are religious people always trying to find a date for an upcoming awakening that happens overnight?
Awakenings don´t happen overnight! Ask youself? How long were you an ateist before you became religious or vice verca?
If you´re looking for a process I do think it´s happening right now, if you´re looking for an event....spread your seed...

I doubt it will start in June as there are still prophecies that need to be fullfilled, such as the King of the North and the King of the South. I have to agree with Russian Scientist that it would most likely be after the 2012 date.

I feel it's coming too. Ever since Bush Sr. utter the words, "One World Order", I have paying close attention to what is happening.

First off thanks for the info, i for one will be looking forward to june 23rd, but i would be very surprised if anything comes of it.
I think it's interesting that a culture from so long ago could have such a remarkable knowledge of our galaxy. If 2012 is anything at all it will be very significant not just for christians but for people of every religion that is expecting the return of the 12th imam or the final Buddha.
I think it's remarkable how much man has progressed technologically in the last 100 years or so, and many prophecies of revelation are much more believable now that we have such global communication and nuclear weapons. Not only that but with all the talk of a global currency and people like david rockefellar admitting they are working towards global government, how can you not take revelations seriously. Israel is a nation again after 2000 years just as christ prophecied and he said this generation would see his return, so ya obviously all the excitement over 2012 is going to get linked to the tribulation, and i don't see why not. God provided the stars for signs and for seasons, they play a major role throughout the bible, christs arrival began with the star of bethlehem and ended with an eclipse of the moon and the blackening of the sun. This was observed in multiple historical accounts by a samaritan historian named Thallus as well as first century historian Phlegon, but i suppose that's just coincidence. The fact the earth is aligning with the center of the galaxy would probably be a pretty big sign if you ask me. Many forecasters such as gerald celente and peter schiff are expecting # to hit the fan this year, so this could very well could fit nicely a june 23 timeline. Oh, don't forget about Benjamin Creme and the Maitreya, i know he's been talking about him coming since 82 but lookit all the threads regarding this mysterious star, exactly the sign he said we'd get, he was even linked with the U.N. for crying out loud. Despite all this though i think it is still a bit to early to expect much from june 23rd, there is just too much that still needs to happen, the third temple and the global government is still probably a ways off, but to write this off completely just because you think the bible is full of fairy tales is your prerogative.

[edit on 29-3-2009 by dnaobs]

I think it's possible that the great tribulation is already behind us and the end is much closer than anyone realizes. The dark ages could very well have been the tribulation as spoken of in the Bible, and the RCC is the beast responsible for it's process. See my thread titled "The stout horn & Antichrist" in the "religion conspiracy" forum.